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Hamhuis, Vancouver's #1 D?

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Old
10-07-2010, 12:43 AM
  #1
crazy Kassian
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Hamhuis, Vancouver's #1 D?

Many Canucks fans were excited about our chance of landing Hamhuis on July 1st. A small number of us had our doubts about him (me) but right now, everyone is on the Hamhuis bandwagon. Many of us are looking at the 6 year $27M contract ($4.5M) and thinking it will end up as a big steal and another brilliant move by Gillis.

We believe that Hamhuis will be that number 1 defenseman that people always bring out as a weakness of the Canucks.

Same can be said for Alex Edler however he is 4 years younger then Hamhuis. Hamhuis has also played 230 more games.

He can be our go-to defenseman like Willie Mitchell while being far superior on the offensive side. One of the theories is that he never had a chance to shine or demonstrate his abilities behind two great defenseman in Suter and Weber.

His calm demeanor, smart plays, and his skating... Wow, among our mobile defense he has the best skating, so smooth. He has yet to make a mistake on the ice, it's only preseason though (our team hasn't been good however).

What are your guys take on this? After all he was drafted by Nashville and has played 483 games under your watch.


Last edited by crazy Kassian: 10-07-2010 at 12:51 AM.
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10-07-2010, 12:51 AM
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dulzhok
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I would be shocked.

In terms of a comparison to Willie Mitchell, he doesn't have near the strength. He's actually pretty weak for a dman. He can throw a nice hip check, but don't look for him to throw around people. To me, Hamhuis is slightly above average in the d-zone (with his share of bad days), good at transitioning the puck through the neutral zone, and slightly above average in the offense zone.

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10-07-2010, 12:54 AM
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You nailed it. Weber and Suter work pretty well togethor. A d-men is a dime a dozen around here. With so many solid d-men and many young ones with great potential. He was just going to get too much money to make it worth it.

Now put him in front of good goalie and I think you wil be happy. Especially on the first line. Expect him to level the opponent with his hip checks and very physical play. He is also a very good puck moving d-men. I don't think too many will be dissapointed in Vancouver. The only question is who will you pair him with and how well will there chemistry be?

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10-07-2010, 01:21 AM
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crazy Kassian
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I used to pimp up Suter A LOT. So I watched some Nashville games and look for #20. Weber is obviously more noticeable but I've always said they are both top 10 defenseman in the league. The Olympics confirmed that for me. Suter made Rafalski look great something that only Lidstrom was able to do at times. He was absolute workhorse for Team USA.

I never really noticed Hamhuis much. Since Nashville games are hard to come by and I don't go search for them either, I'd look at the boxscores. What I notice is that he does get a lot of minutes. However there were games (can't remember which ones) where Nashville gave up a ton of goals and lost by a fair margin. I notice Suter is +/- 0 and maybe Weber aswell. Hamhuis meanwhile is a -4/-5.... While playing 22+ minutes which makes me wonder why Trotz played him that much... And because I was very high on Suter, was disappointed that he didn't play his usual minutes that game even though Hamhuis has been atrocious (only by looking at the boxscore).

I wasn't high on signing the guy but from the limited viewings I have big hopes for him.

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10-07-2010, 01:55 AM
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I never thought of Hamhuis as a #1. He's plays his position well, but he tends to let his man slip away rather than burying him in a rink ad like a Weber or Willie Mitchell in his prime. He's good at taking the puck up ice, but isn't really very effective once it's where it's going. The one thing that really put Hammer in a lot of doghouses, though, was his tendency to make a great play one shift and do something downright stupid the next. On a very good team, he's a guy who should play about 20 minutes a night (give or take), with extensive penalty kill time. I wouldn't trust him with 25 minutes as a #1 based on his time in Nashville.

The really frustrating thing about Hamhuis is that he showed the ability to be a top pairing defenseman, he just didn't show it often enough, and when Weber and Suter both developed into star defenders, he was a luxury we couldn't afford. If he starts playing consistently well for Vancouver, I would suspect his constant dips in form could be attributed to home sickness, in which case he should have been dealt long before his contract ran out.

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10-07-2010, 02:15 AM
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I think lots of Preds fans have gotten spoiled with Weber - Suter and two #1 guys, while 26 other teams in the league don't have one.

Hamhuis may not be a full #1, but unless Edler takes a big step forward, he'll be our #1

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10-07-2010, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
If he starts playing consistently well for Vancouver, I would suspect his constant dips in form could be attributed to home sickness, in which case he should have been dealt long before his contract ran out.
Hamhuis wanted to stay from all accounts, but we didn't want to pay him 4,5m a year (the right move, IMO).

I think Poile's biggest mistake over the last year was not moving Hamhuis last offseason. We would've gotten a lot in return. Anyone could've see this coming from a mile a way.

Not to mention, we could've resigned Zanon, and/or signed a guy like Siedenberg.

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10-07-2010, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Hamhuis wanted to stay from all accounts, but we didn't want to pay him 4,5m a year (the right move, IMO).

I think Poile's biggest mistake over the last year was not moving Hamhuis last offseason. We would've gotten a lot in return. Anyone could've see this coming from a mile a way.

Not to mention, we could've resigned Zanon, and/or signed a guy like Siedenberg.
Keeping Hamhuis was definitely the right move. We trade him and there's a chance we don't even make the playoffs. And we also don't give Chicago a run for their money either. Who cares if about a draft pick or prospect. We needed talent then. IMO, Poile knew fully well that Hamhuis was going to walk this off season.

Zanon does look pretty good now, considering how our PK went down the toilet. But Zanon must be paired with someone good for him to be useful. Not sure if I want him making $1.9M to play on the bottom pairing either. Of course we are doing that with SOB so who knows.

No way Seidenberg leaves Boston to come here... would you rather play with Chara or Klein...

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10-07-2010, 06:50 AM
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It's easy enough to get excited over Hamhuis over training camp and the preseason....let's see how things shake out in the regular season.

He has the ability...we saw it, once upon a time...but for whatever reason, he got progressively worse the last few years in Nashville. It's not about being overshadowed by Suter\Weber, he was just downright inadequate on many nights. He had good games, and then he had very bad games. If I had to point out a primary flaw, it's his passive play in front of the net\tendency to try to play the puck rather than the man. He had a bad habit of screening his own goaltender, or worse, deflecting pucks into his own net. A lot of his bad play last season was blamed on Klein, but I think it was equal parts of both of them.

With that said, while there are those bad nights, there's also good. On most nights, I'd rate him a solid number 3\4. I wouldn't want him at 4.5....3 is about the highest I would have been okay seeing the Preds give him...but if you've got the money to spend, I guess it will be okay.

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10-07-2010, 08:39 AM
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I liked Hamhuis. I remember one night I think against you guys, we were talking in the GDT about him being the most dominate player on the ice that night. He was playing out of his mind.

Then he started getting more and more stick happy. I agree his biggest flaw is he depends too much on his poke check and forgets to play the body. This can let some slick forwards right by him. He also had the worst clears on the team night after night. He would feather pass clearing attempts right to the defenseman breaking in from the point.

If he's on, he's a great talent though he was just overshadowed by Weber and Suter.

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10-07-2010, 08:44 AM
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Hamhuis looked great in 07-08 after Weber went down in his very first shift on opening night. He stepped up his play when his role was increased, and I think he really impressed a lot of people who were worried. Since then we have only seen that Hamhuis in flashes, and those were even rare. I'm not really sure what happened, but he just stopped playing on that level. Maybe a change of scenery will do him well, or maybe that season was a fluke and he played well above his potential for a string of games. Anyway it isn't true that Nashville fans have been spoiled by Weber and Suter. They are arguably the best pairing in the league, but you still need four more guys behind them. Hamhuis just looked terrible for much of last season. He did play a ton of minutes, and a lot of those minutes were against good competition. He just didn't rise to the occasion very often. I think most of us were of the opinion that he is capable of doing better, but paying him the money he wanted wasn't worth it because of future extensions/contracts and the risk that he might not be the Hamhuis we needed him to be.

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10-07-2010, 09:38 AM
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Hamhuis is a bit of an enigma for me.

He has a beautifully devastating hipcheck, but only uses it 2 or 3 times all season.

He doesnt have the strength but can flat out skate and knows his positioning, but will also spend half the night flopping around in the crease playing 2nd goalie after losing his man.

He is a great D man but does baffling things.

He and Kevin Klein brought out the worst in each other. Finally getting away from KK may end up being the best thing that ever happens to him.

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10-07-2010, 10:06 AM
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all you have to do is look at our playoff series last year versus Chicago... Hamhuis was out for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Chicago's goals for the first 5 games.

He is such a smooth skater, always is poised on the defensive end, and has an amazing hip-check. But when he has the puck, he tends to panic and have 2 or 3 bad turnovers a game. The GF and I both laugh in the 2nd period when we say Hammer hasn't had his AWFUL turnover yet this game, and then BOOM, there it is.

You will be pleased with him as a #3 guy. But don't expect him to be your top pairing because the guy struggles are clearing out the crease (by struggles I mean he doesn't do it at all), clearing the puck at times, and isn't all that involved in the play offensively.

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10-07-2010, 10:14 AM
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I watched the top 10 goals of last season on NHL Network last night, 2 of the 10 were against us with Dan Ellis in goal and Dan Hamhuis on the ice... and I was expecting to not see us on there at all. (granted the pairing of 2 & 8 was brutal)

and I agree with everything Fisher just said.

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10-07-2010, 10:14 AM
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A lot of folks have said this in many ways but I think the bottom line is, Hamhuis is a very capable NHL defenseman, but Im not sure he has what most teams would expect from a #1. Time will tell if he is worth 4.5 mil a year until hes in his mid 30's.

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10-07-2010, 10:22 AM
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Guess Edler-Ehrhoff will have to be top pairing D, with Hamhuis-Ballard 2nd pairing , then ...

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10-07-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgson View Post
Many Canucks fans were excited about our chance of landing Hamhuis on July 1st. A small number of us had our doubts about him (me) but right now, everyone is on the Hamhuis bandwagon. Many of us are looking at the 6 year $27M contract ($4.5M) and thinking it will end up as a big steal and another brilliant move by Gillis.

We believe that Hamhuis will be that number 1 defenseman that people always bring out as a weakness of the Canucks.

Same can be said for Alex Edler however he is 4 years younger then Hamhuis. Hamhuis has also played 230 more games.

He can be our go-to defenseman like Willie Mitchell while being far superior on the offensive side. One of the theories is that he never had a chance to shine or demonstrate his abilities behind two great defenseman in Suter and Weber.

His calm demeanor, smart plays, and his skating... Wow, among our mobile defense he has the best skating, so smooth. He has yet to make a mistake on the ice, it's only preseason though (our team hasn't been good however).

What are your guys take on this? After all he was drafted by Nashville and has played 483 games under your watch.
I will profess to not being as "up" on the Canucks as you are but I see your Canucks not really having ANY #1 D but instead have that role by committee. Ehrhoff (just outside top 10 in Norris voting last year) and Edler (one of top younger Dmen in league) are likely ahead of DH on your team's depth chart. Supporting players like Ballard and Beiksa are not exactly bottom pairing guys and when healthy (if?), Salo is still a top 4 guy for nearly any team in the league.

Vancouver doesn't seem to have a No 1 guy nor do they seem to want one having adopted a different approach of having five or six No 2 guys. Will see if it works for them.

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10-07-2010, 02:15 PM
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Keeping Hamhuis was definitely the right move. We trade him and there's a chance we don't even make the playoffs. And we also don't give Chicago a run for their money either. Who cares if about a draft pick or prospect. We needed talent then. IMO, Poile knew fully well that Hamhuis was going to walk this off season.

Zanon does look pretty good now, considering how our PK went down the toilet. But Zanon must be paired with someone good for him to be useful. Not sure if I want him making $1.9M to play on the bottom pairing either. Of course we are doing that with SOB so who knows.

No way Seidenberg leaves Boston to come here... would you rather play with Chara or Klein...
Sure, there's a chance we might not have made the playoffs without Hamhuis, there's also a chance we would've advance past the 2nd round if we had a gotten a goal scorer in return and replaced him with a couple decent vets.

Zanon played top 4 minutes when he was here, and was great on the PK. He's playing top 3 or 4 minutes in Minnesota.

Siendeberg signed last year with Florida. He was looking for a longer term deal, but only had a couple of suitors at the time.

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10-07-2010, 03:04 PM
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I don't understand why Nucks fans have to typecast him as your #1 Dman.

Erhoff-Edler
Ballard-Hamhuis

That's a good top 4. They will all be of equal importance I think. Hamhuis isn't considerably better than any of those guys if at all.

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10-07-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Sure, there's a chance we might not have made the playoffs without Hamhuis, there's also a chance we would've advance past the 2nd round if we had a gotten a goal scorer in return and replaced him with a couple decent vets.

Zanon played top 4 minutes when he was here, and was great on the PK. He's playing top 3 or 4 minutes in Minnesota.

Siendeberg signed last year with Florida. He was looking for a longer term deal, but only had a couple of suitors at the time.
What kind of team is going to trade us a goal scorer for Hamhuis? Examples please. Most teams willing to buy Hamhuis are only looking to part with picks and prospects. When you are trying to make the playoffs, you don't sell your assets on deadline day. That makes no sense.

I'm not arguing that Zanon is looking good now. I agree with you... I'm just saying Zanon looks a whole lot better when paired with a skilled dman. Zanon+Klein/Bouillon/Franson = bang head against wall. Of course, I guess we don't keep Klein around if Zanon is here. We took a gamble here. Klein has much higher upside even though he is less developed. Looks like the wrong decision so far, but we'll see what Klein does this season.

It's easy to look back at signings and such and wish we did different, but Poile does not have the luxury of hindsight. I don't recall anyone here wishing we had signed Seidenberg. He was considered risky at the time of his signing. Also expensive.

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10-07-2010, 05:44 PM
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before the lockout most preds fans had Hamhuis billed as the future #1 guy and potential captain, talked about his strong point shot and how he was a good hitter.

...then Weber and Suter came up the ranks and passed Hamhuis, I think that knowing he was never going to be higher than a #3 here really held Hamhuis back and the change of scenery and a shot at the top pairing again will help him regain his game. I hope so anyway, just not against the Preds.

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10-07-2010, 05:50 PM
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Unfortunately Hamhuis has been given the task of covering up for the mess that is Bieksa; so he's probably doomed.

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10-07-2010, 06:10 PM
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What kind of team is going to trade us a goal scorer for Hamhuis? Examples please. Most teams willing to buy Hamhuis are only looking to part with picks and prospects. When you are trying to make the playoffs, you don't sell your assets on deadline day. That makes no sense.

I'm not arguing that Zanon is looking good now. I agree with you... I'm just saying Zanon looks a whole lot better when paired with a skilled dman. Zanon+Klein/Bouillon/Franson = bang head against wall. Of course, I guess we don't keep Klein around if Zanon is here. We took a gamble here. Klein has much higher upside even though he is less developed. Looks like the wrong decision so far, but we'll see what Klein does this season.

It's easy to look back at signings and such and wish we did different, but Poile does not have the luxury of hindsight. I don't recall anyone here wishing we had signed Seidenberg. He was considered risky at the time of his signing. Also expensive.
I think the idea of trading Hamhuis wasn't at the deadline, but rather, before the season started AND signing Zanon to take his place. Might have happened if Poile could have gotten Z a little cheaper. But Poile seems to be one of those guys who signs you for what he thinks you're worth or lets you go types.

Hindsight, wouldn't have been a terrible idea to pair Z and KK - they played well together at Milw and the little they saw ice together in Nash. But, huge injury risk if Weber or Suter woulda' gone down without Hammer to step into that #1 pairing.

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10-07-2010, 07:26 PM
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I think the idea of trading Hamhuis wasn't at the deadline, but rather, before the season started AND signing Zanon to take his place. Might have happened if Poile could have gotten Z a little cheaper. But Poile seems to be one of those guys who signs you for what he thinks you're worth or lets you go types.

Hindsight, wouldn't have been a terrible idea to pair Z and KK - they played well together at Milw and the little they saw ice together in Nash. But, huge injury risk if Weber or Suter woulda' gone down without Hammer to step into that #1 pairing.
Whoops, sorry dulz, I misread your original post. Disregard my banter about Hamhuis. Although I'd probably still would have kept Hammer, I can see an argument on either side.

dean, I guess I just disagree then. IMO, KK and Z would be brutal as a 2nd pairing. I do agree with your assessment on Poile though. Length of the term was probably a big part as well.

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10-07-2010, 07:29 PM
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Unfortunately Hamhuis has been given the task of covering up for the mess that is Bieksa; so he's probably doomed.
Luckly, Hammer is used to having brutal partners. Bieksa is def an upgrade over Zanon or Klein (I think )

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