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Old
10-07-2010, 11:25 PM
  #51
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
A little OT, but am I the only one thinking that all of these analysts are CRAZY for picking OTT so high? Everson has them 3rd in the East! I've also seen CBC guys pick them as high as 4th/5ht in the East. Not going to happen, IMO.
I agree. They weren't too good last year (I mean, good enough) but they basically capitalized on a bad division. I look at them and see the wheels ready to fall off. Something is going to happen with Spezza, something ugly. And their goaltending is horrendous. I see Ottawa out and actually think Carolina is in which contradicts some of the posts above this one.

Carolina has this crazy track record of making the playoffs every other year and this is the scheduled playoff year. Weird rule of thumb but they for some reason get hit by injuries every other year... If they are healthy, they are in. Tampa and Atl are probably too green but they are on the verge. Montreal is out. Price is in a bad spot and he just isn't made for that environment. We take their spot ultimately. Literally. 8th.

All of that is irrelevant. This is Was, Pit and Phi's conference to battle over. Everyone else is merely pawns.

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Old
10-07-2010, 11:57 PM
  #52
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Let's not kid ourselves and pretend the Devils won't be a great team this year. They are pretty stacked.
first line is great, one of the best, the others are solid but they are old

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:53 AM
  #53
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Ottawa's goaltending is suspect. They're not going to have as good a record as last year. Karlsson's a great young player but they're going to be really missing Volchenkov.

Again I think the Devils might get off to a great start but eventually the wheels are going to come off that bus. Some people are saying that all these 30 + year olds are proven veterans and that's fine but every team needs some young legs--maybe the comparison to the Red Wings is apt but I don't think so--Lou is praying that Rolston comes down with any kind of injury so he can put him on LTIR along with Salvador. 82 games is a grind and their 4th line is Pelley, Letourneau-Leblond and Henrique. It's going to be difficult rolling lines and that's going to catch up with them sooner or later. If they make the playoffs they're primed for an early exit against whoever they play.

I like Boston as one of the better teams. Bergeron, Krejci and Savard (if he comes back) are all excellent centers. They have some wings that can score. I really like Lucic though he needs to step up the offense. If there is a d-man in the league I could take from anybody it would be Chara and their goaltending is pretty good.

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Old
10-08-2010, 07:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Lou is praying that Rolston comes down with any kind of injury so he can put him on LTIR along with Salvador.
I agree with your points but I wonder if these guys do go LTIR who is the backfill for those positions? Is there anyone of note LL can slot in? I am not sold on the Devils as a real life team. They might look good in one of those video games, but this is a long season and any trades, especially when dealing without any assets, will be hard for the Devils to make.

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Old
10-08-2010, 07:37 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
NJ's forwards are ridiculously good. I don't know what team you're looking at.

Parise-Zajac-Kovalchuk
Elias-Arnott-Langenbrunner
Clarkson-Zubrus-Rolston

I challenge you to find a forward crew better than that in the league.

Their defense is a question mark, particularily their #6, and if Volchenkov gets hurt they are in trouble. But their offense certainly should not be being called into question here. Its deadly. You have potentially 9 20 goal scorers.
Arnott is 36 years old. Injuries the last 2 seasons. Rolston is still in the NHL because of the 35 plus contract. He would riding the buses with Wade Redden and Michael Nylander this winter if not for his contract status.

Question mark. It's a huge question mark. It's the reason why lost to Carolina in 2009 and to Philly in 2010. Did they address that area? They needed to keep Martin and add another top blue-liner. Someone who could move the puck and add offense. Look at the Cup winners since the lockout,they all were good on D including Carolina in 2006 which didn't have a #1 type D but six NHL D.

Buffalo wasn't sad to see Tallinder go and Volchenkov signed to a 6 year contract with the way he plays isn't a wise investment. Volchenkov sees some of his partners and there is no Chris Phillips on the other side.

Greene couldn't get into the line-up when Sutter was the coach with MacLean on his staff. He played better under Jacques who is gone and MacLean was in Lowell.

Fraser stinks. Urbom is a 19 year old.

Lou has no cap room to add other pieces on D. He tried to trade some of his contracts with no success.

If you think that defense is a Cup caliber,then what are you watching? Goaltending and defense win the playoffs. The Devils used that formula to win. Now the formula is different.

Shoddy D and Brodeur will be 39 years old in a few months.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 10-08-2010 at 07:47 AM.
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Old
10-08-2010, 10:14 AM
  #56
haveandare
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Predicting the playoffs is always a total crap shoot. I don't know why people even try. Every year something unexpected happens that alters the way the entire playoff bracket ends up. Whether it be a big injury, a great team slumping or a somewhat unknown guy stepping it up, something usually happens to alter the outcome. Its never as easy as picking the best teams on paper.

Look at the Devils last year, they looked unstoppable on paper but were very, very stoppable in real life. Montreal on paper looked just okay and Halak stepped it up from out of nowhere and completely altered the entire postseason.

The playoffs are a complete gamble. All that matters is whether you make the show or not. NYR has a chance this year but it depends on a lot of factors - most of which Brooks addressees. Not a bad piece for him.

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Old
10-08-2010, 10:24 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
NJ's forwards are ridiculously good. I don't know what team you're looking at.

Parise-Zajac-Kovalchuk
Elias-Arnott-Langenbrunner
Clarkson-Zubrus-Rolston

I challenge you to find a forward crew better than that in the league.


Their defense is a question mark, particularily their #6, and if Volchenkov gets hurt they are in trouble. But their offense certainly should not be being called into question here. Its deadly. You have potentially 9 20 goal scorers.
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Modano-Cleary
Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves


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Old
10-08-2010, 10:53 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Hudler-Modano-Cleary
Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

That is close, but not better.

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Old
10-08-2010, 11:34 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
IF we make the playoffs and play the Devils, we will not lose.


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Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
Based off what? The preseason? Our track record over the years in the playoffs?

There are far too many variables. Lets get to the playoffs, and lets beat them a few times in the regular season before we start saying this.
This. I hate people who make asinine comments like that. This is not the 07-08 season. The Devils are better then us right now. Just because we've beaten them in the past in the playoffs, and have beaten them in the preseason, doesn't mean we will beat them again. 2006 should tell us that.

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Old
10-08-2010, 12:20 PM
  #60
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
That is close, but not better.
It's better, I'm sorry. So is this:

Carcillo-Richards-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
van Riemsdyk-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Powe

There's no debate even. The NJ first line is better, but man for man, Philly has and will put up more points than the Devils. They will have seven 20 goal scorers and four 30 goal scorers.

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Old
10-08-2010, 12:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Arnott is 36 years old. Injuries the last 2 seasons. Rolston is still in the NHL because of the 35 plus contract. He would riding the buses with Wade Redden and Michael Nylander this winter if not for his contract status.

Question mark. It's a huge question mark. It's the reason why lost to Carolina in 2009 and to Philly in 2010. Did they address that area? They needed to keep Martin and add another top blue-liner. Someone who could move the puck and add offense. Look at the Cup winners since the lockout,they all were good on D including Carolina in 2006 which didn't have a #1 type D but six NHL D.

Buffalo wasn't sad to see Tallinder go and Volchenkov signed to a 6 year contract with the way he plays isn't a wise investment. Volchenkov sees some of his partners and there is no Chris Phillips on the other side.

Greene couldn't get into the line-up when Sutter was the coach with MacLean on his staff. He played better under Jacques who is gone and MacLean was in Lowell.

Fraser stinks. Urbom is a 19 year old.

Lou has no cap room to add other pieces on D. He tried to trade some of his contracts with no success.

If you think that defense is a Cup caliber,then what are you watching? Goaltending and defense win the playoffs. The Devils used that formula to win. Now the formula is different.

Shoddy D and Brodeur will be 39 years old in a few months.
Still a very good top-9. You can pick apart every teams forward lines and find shortcomings. But you're right; Devils fans seem to think guys who are in their mid-30's dont get injured.

The issue the Devils will have is not having healthy scratches, and having to fly/bus/truck/parachute replacements in from Albany when dudes get hurt or sick. What if they're in Detroit and a Elias gets food poisoning before the game? They're going to have to fly a replacement in on a F-18 just to get there by puck drop LOL

It would behoove the Devils' wives to not give birth or for any of the players' family members to die during the season, or any other reason a player would ask for time off.

I don't know...I look at the Devils roster and don't see a team that will beat Washington, Pittsburgh or Philly in a 7-game series. But who knows

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Old
10-08-2010, 12:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
It's better, I'm sorry. So is this:

Carcillo-Richards-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
van Riemsdyk-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Powe

There's no debate even. The NJ first line is better, but man for man, Philly has and will put up more points than the Devils. They will have seven 20 goal scorers and four 30 goal scorers.
Plus the fact that Philly's defense corps absolutely crushes what the Devils will ice.

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Old
10-08-2010, 12:38 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
That is close, but not better.
Yes, it is.

Also this;
Lidström - Kronwall
Stuart - Rafalski
Salei - Ericsson

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Old
10-08-2010, 02:09 PM
  #64
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And older team with a few young players used to win the cup.

Now, a young team with a few veterans seems to win the cup.

Too many old(er) players on the Devils. And the Red Wings. I don't pick either to go to the finals this year.

Brodeur is still a consistent performer during the regular season and I can't really blame last years early exit on him. But, at 38, it's harder to keep from breaking down and getting injured - particularly in a position like G that require flexibility and speed. I'm not saying he can't get it done, but I wouldn't be surprised if gets injuries during the season and/or playoffs either. I'd put the Devils at #4 in the East.

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Old
10-08-2010, 03:08 PM
  #65
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In New Jersey you got a 2nd line who averages 35 years old and Rolston at 37 (might be the worst contract in the league now that Redden's in Hartford) and Zubrus early 30's but has been in the NHL since he was 18 on your third line. Your fourth line is Pelley, Letourneau-Leblond (a much smaller version of Boogaard) and Adam Henrique who is making the jump from the OHL and is really a B--B+ level prospect. Can you roll this 4th line night in--night out. Average them in 8-10 minutes a night? Pelley can kill penalties--forget about PLL. Henrique--??--because if they can't roll that line that means all those old guys on the 2nd and 3rd lines are going to get 18 minutes or so of ice time game and game out. They've got something like $38 K to work and guys they can't cut. Tedenby and Josefson might be able to help them but someone will have to go on LTIR. Just simply getting injured and being out for a couple weeks isn't enough to go on LTIR. In their situation they can't simply just call up players for minor problems of missing a week here or two weeks there.


Greene is the one guy on their D with offensive flair. Volchenkov is a rock but is probably going to miss 15 games or so. Tallinder is a stay at home--and a little soft. White a little long in the tooth and vision problems in one eye.

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Old
10-08-2010, 03:58 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
In New Jersey you got a 2nd line who averages 35 years old and Rolston at 37 (might be the worst contract in the league now that Redden's in Hartford) and Zubrus early 30's but has been in the NHL since he was 18 on your third line. Your fourth line is Pelley, Letourneau-Leblond (a much smaller version of Boogaard) and Adam Henrique who is making the jump from the OHL and is really a B--B+ level prospect. Can you roll this 4th line night in--night out. Average them in 8-10 minutes a night? Pelley can kill penalties--forget about PLL. Henrique--??--because if they can't roll that line that means all those old guys on the 2nd and 3rd lines are going to get 18 minutes or so of ice time game and game out. They've got something like $38 K to work and guys they can't cut. Tedenby and Josefson might be able to help them but someone will have to go on LTIR. Just simply getting injured and being out for a couple weeks isn't enough to go on LTIR. In their situation they can't simply just call up players for minor problems of missing a week here or two weeks there.


Greene is the one guy on their D with offensive flair. Volchenkov is a rock but is probably going to miss 15 games or so. Tallinder is a stay at home--and a little soft. White a little long in the tooth and vision problems in one eye.
But besides that, they're okay right? I don't understand the Devils love this year. Philly and Pittsburgh are in much better position to win the division. Washington, Boston and Buffalo are better equipped to make playoff runs. A few injuries here and there, they could very easily miss the playoffs. Until they do though, I won't pick them to.

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:20 PM
  #67
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1) Kovalchuk and Parise are better than any forward the Flyers have.

2) Goaltending and defense used to win in the playoffs. They obviously still play a role, but potent offense is the biggest factor now, IMO.

3) The Devils defense is obviously their biggest weakness, enough of a weakness that I don't think they'll win the Cup. They should still be a top contender, though.

4) Detroit is going to be better this year than they were last season.

One of 6 teams is going to win the cup this year (in no particular order) Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Vancouver. And probably the year after that and the year after that, too. I don't see any team in the league in a position to overtake many of those teams this season or in the near future.

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:25 PM
  #68
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Anyone know the Rangers average age? They should easily be one of the youngest teams since they only have 3 players over 30. And one of them is Prospal who may not even play this year.

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:37 PM
  #69
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Predicting the playoffs is always a total crap shoot. I don't know why people even try. Every year something unexpected happens that alters the way the entire playoff bracket ends up. Whether it be a big injury, a great team slumping or a somewhat unknown guy stepping it up, something usually happens to alter the outcome. Its never as easy as picking the best teams on paper.

Look at the Devils last year, they looked unstoppable on paper but were very, very stoppable in real life. Montreal on paper looked just okay and Halak stepped it up from out of nowhere and completely altered the entire postseason.

The playoffs are a complete gamble. All that matters is whether you make the show or not. NYR has a chance this year but it depends on a lot of factors - most of which Brooks addressees. Not a bad piece for him.
Predicting exactly how the playoffs go is pretty tough to do, but I disagree with the notion that it's a complete gamble, or that as long as you make it anything can happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been AT LEAST 30 years since the Cup-winning team was a low seed. Plenty of low seeds have gotten to the finals, but they don't win.

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:37 PM
  #70
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Yes, it is.

Also this;
Lidström - Kronwall
Stuart - Rafalski
Salei - Ericsson
I wasn't talking about defense. And nowhere did I claim that NJ was the favorite to win the cup.

But yes, their top 9 forwards are the best of the league. Detroit is close. Philly really isn't. NJ's top 9 forwards in total points will pace the league this season

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:39 PM
  #71
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Anyone know the Rangers average age? They should easily be one of the youngest teams since they only have 3 players over 30. And one of them is Prospal who may not even play this year.
7 actually are on the opening night roster (including ir), feds, roszival, drury and prospal, biron and avery, white

the average age is 27

Edit: without prospal and white its 26

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10-08-2010, 04:43 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
NJ's top 9 forwards in total points will pace the league this season
ummm no phillys is DEF better, detroits probably the same if not better and i would argue that even washington's might be as good

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10-08-2010, 07:34 PM
  #73
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1) Kovalchuk and Parise are better than any forward the Flyers have.

2) Goaltending and defense used to win in the playoffs. They obviously still play a role, but potent offense is the biggest factor now, IMO.

3) The Devils defense is obviously their biggest weakness, enough of a weakness that I don't think they'll win the Cup. They should still be a top contender, though.

4) Detroit is going to be better this year than they were last season.

One of 6 teams is going to win the cup this year (in no particular order) Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Vancouver. And probably the year after that and the year after that, too. I don't see any team in the league in a position to overtake many of those teams this season or in the near future.
I truly think LA is in the mix. They have the tools. They are built like a contender too, for playoff hockey. That gritty, physical style that worked for Philly and Chicago. And this is probably a silly point to make in October, but no team is better equiped to stock up at the deadline than LA. I think Richards goes there at the deadline. That team led by Ryan Smyth and Brad Richards (among others) will be nasty in the post season. At least if you're going to mention SJ, who I think took a step backwards, I think LA should be included.

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10-08-2010, 07:39 PM
  #74
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ummm no phillys is DEF better, detroits probably the same if not better and i would argue that even washington's might be as good
Top 9? Philly, Was, and prob Det are better. SJ, LA, TB, Van are at least on par with NJ. I don't see the fuss about their 3rd line. And that 2nd line is old as eco has pointed out. The game is so much faster now than it was 10 years ago. It's tough for older players throughout the course of the season to keep up, even with replacements available, which Jersey doesn't have yet. We saw it with Shannahan, Straka and Rucinsky. NJ is going to rely heavily on that top line. Powerplay too.

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10-08-2010, 10:42 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Top 9? Philly, Was, and prob Det are better. SJ, LA, TB, Van are at least on par with NJ. I don't see the fuss about their 3rd line. And that 2nd line is old as eco has pointed out. The game is so much faster now than it was 10 years ago. It's tough for older players throughout the course of the season to keep up, even with replacements available, which Jersey doesn't have yet. We saw it with Shannahan, Straka and Rucinsky. NJ is going to rely heavily on that top line. Powerplay too.
Bingo.

The Devils don't have an ungodly top 9 by any means. They have a really solid first line, no question about it. The second line would have been really awesome 3 or 4 years ago, but now its pretty much a question mark. Are 3 guys at that age going to be able to play 82 games? Who is going to fill in for them if/when they can't? Finally, they have a very, very average 3rd line. Clarkson's career high is 32 points and he's 26. Zubrus hasn't topped 40 points since 2006 - 2007 and Rolston is a 37 y/o who has put up beastly numbers in the past, but not since coming back to jersey. At that age I have to believe his best days are behind him. Points aren't everything, but I'm not sure they have the wheels to play the checking game anymore either. They're all "household names" if you know hockey more than the average person, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be a great line.

I'm very skeptical of the expectations that the Devils are getting this season. Too much faith is being put in players that are too old.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not saying NYR are better off for this season than the Devils are. I'm just thinking about the Devils out loud, not comparing them to the Rangers in any way. NYR has its own slew of problems.

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