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The 2010 AAA Draft (rosters, picks, discussion, etc.)

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Old
10-08-2010, 02:34 PM
  #51
seventieslord
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Thanks for the props on the Ruttan pick. From a purely philosophical perspective, I really wanted to see one of the guys with all the skipped picks at the end of the MLD take Ruttan... I was ready to even message them and advise them. But I never did. Their loss is my gain I guess.

I'm wondering about everyone's thoughts on Brad Stuart being a #1 AAA defenseman, or an AAA defenseman at all. here's a guy who has, aside from a cup of coffee as a #1 and as a #5, been a #2-4 defenseman for his whole 10-year career. He's most commonly been a #3 or #4 according to ice time, in six of his ten seasons. he's not known as among the best in the league at anything (sometimes being a niche player like that is more valuable, look at Streit-PP, or Kasparaitis-physicality, or Krupp-size, or Rouse-creaseclearing) so should he really be an AAA player? There are plenty of undrafted active ten-year defensemen who have all been in his boat - what makes him better?

I don't know if I'm out of line or not, just looking for other opinions, but with Ruttan out of the way, I'm looking at defensemen who I think were regarded as among the best at something, or who were often the #1 or #2 defenseman on their own teams. There are enough guys like that out there, that I wouldn't have to end up taking a Stuart... I hope not, anyway.

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Old
10-08-2010, 02:38 PM
  #52
Nalyd Psycho
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Morris Lukowich, LW



Quote:
Little Morris Lukowich was an explosive player - both in terms of speed and scoring. He also added a bit of sandpaper to his game, playing with admirable grit.

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Old
10-08-2010, 04:23 PM
  #53
BillyShoe1721
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D Jim McKenny



1x NHL All-Star Game Participant
7x Top 20 Points Among Defensemen (2, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17)
3x Top 10 Assists Among Defensemen (4, 9, 3)
3x Top 10 Goals Among Defensemen (7, 9, 6)
1x 16th NHL All-Star voting for Defensemen
Expected TOI on Maple Leafs Teams among Defensemen, 1969-70 to 1976-77: 1, 3(would likely have been #1 had he played all games)*, 1, 1, 1, 2*, 6(played only 46 games, 3*
*-Were behind Baun & Ley, Salming, and Salming & Turnbull

Points Among Defensemen, 1969-70 to 1976-77

1. Bobby Orr-775
2. Brad Park-472
3. Guy Lapointe-419
4. Ed Westfall-385
5. Carol Vadnais-383
6. Jim McKenny-321
7. Denis Potvin-308
8. Ron Stackhouse-307
9. Dick Redmond-297
10. Dale Tallon-269
All others in the top 17 except one guy have been taken.

Quote:
But for those old enough to remember the NHL in the late 1960's and 1970's McKenny was mainstay on the Toronto Maple Leafs defense for many years. In the mid the 1960's McKenny was rated by many NHL insiders as the second best Canadian junior prospect patrolling the blue line behind only Bobby Orr. The comparisons were primarily based on McKenny's similar strong puckhandling and skating skills, but even his most staunch supporters agreed he was never a match for Orr when it came to point production and toughness. He played three years of Junior A hockey with the Toronto Marlboros and was a member of the 1964 Memorial Cup winning squad that also boasted the likes of Pete Stemkowski, Mike Walton, Ron Ellis and goalie Gary Smith.

McKenny had been selected by the Maple Leafs in the third round of the 1963 NHL Amateur Draft, 17th overall. He first played for the Leafs at 19, when he was called up for two games in the 1965-66 season. However, it was not until the 1969-70 season that McKenny was able to crack the Leafs lineup as a full-time roster player when he dressed for 73 games, scoring eleven goals and 44 points.

McKenny played another seven years with Toronto and was consistently one of the team's top defenders. He always enjoyed the jet setting life of a pro hockey player. "I sure loved the traveling," he said. On being compared with Bobby Orr, McKenny joked "I don't recall if they were saying I was better than or bigger than Orr.
-loh.net


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 10-28-2010 at 09:35 PM.
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Old
10-08-2010, 05:12 PM
  #54
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
D Jim McKenny
1x NHL All-Star Game Participant
3x Top 10 Points Among Defensemen (2, 4, 7)
4x Top 20 Points Among Defensemen (17, 15, 14, 16)
4x Top 20 Assists Among Defensemen (13, 13, 13, 19)
3x Top 10 Assists Among Defensemen (4, 9, 3)
3x Top 10 Goals Among Defensemen (7, 9, 6)
2x Top 16 Goals Among Defensemen (11, 16)
1x Top 25 Goals Among Defensemen (22)
That's pretty convoluted and the 22nd in goals among defensemen is cheesy to boot.

Why not this:

7X Top-20 points among defensemen (2, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17)

Quote:
Expected TOI on Maple Leafs Teams among Defensemen, 69-77: 1, 3(would likely have been #1 had he played all games), 1, 1, 2*, 1, 2*, 5(played only 46 games, 3*
*-Were behind Salming, Salming, and Salming & Turnbull
I have this:
1969: 8th (Horton, *****, Pilote, *****, *****, Ley, Pronovost)
1970: 1st
1971: 3rd (Baun, Ley)
1972: 1st
1973: 1st
1974: 2nd (Salming)
1975: 2nd (Salming)
1976: would be 6th, but is listed as RW for this season, I never noticed this before! (this would explain his career high in points per game)
1977: 3rd (Salming, Turnbull)

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Old
10-08-2010, 06:48 PM
  #55
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With a rather drunk pick, HC Kosice select Satan's partner in crime in the NT for many years, Jozef Stumpel, C/RW, who topped out at 10th in NHL scoring and 5th in assists.


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Old
10-08-2010, 06:59 PM
  #56
VanIslander
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I'll make my pick tomorrow (there are two I want only if together).

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Old
10-08-2010, 07:01 PM
  #57
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
That's pretty convoluted and the 22nd in goals among defensemen is cheesy to boot.

Why not this:

7X Top-20 points among defensemen (2, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16, 17)



I have this:
1969: 8th (Horton, *****, Pilote, *****, *****, Ley, Pronovost)
1970: 1st
1971: 3rd (Baun, Ley)
1972: 1st
1973: 1st
1974: 2nd (Salming)
1975: 2nd (Salming)
1976: would be 6th, but is listed as RW for this season, I never noticed this before! (this would explain his career high in points per game)
1977: 3rd (Salming, Turnbull)
I was going on his 8 year peak, which would eliminate that 8th place one. He never played regularly until 69-70. I'm using total goals on ice for + totals goals on ice against, which would lead to the change in numbers for 73-74. Salming was on ice for more goals for (115) than McKenny (111), but was on ice for more goals against (99) to Salming's (78). I wasn't aware that he played some RW, where did you find this? You're right about 1976, I didn't look all the way down the list and assumed that he was the next highest D, when there was another guy who was on ice for 1 more total goal compared to him. It should read: 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3. I accidentally added one more year in there. Both things have been fixed, thanks for the correction.


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Old
10-08-2010, 10:15 PM
  #58
Nalyd Psycho
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As I start to dig a bit deeper, I'm loving the options available...

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Old
10-08-2010, 11:24 PM
  #59
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I was going on his 8 year peak, which would eliminate that 8th place one. He never played regularly until 69-70. I'm using total goals on ice for + totals goals on ice against, which would lead to the change in numbers for 73-74. Salming was on ice for more goals for (115) than McKenny (111), but was on ice for more goals against (99) to Salming's (78). I wasn't aware that he played some RW, where did you find this? You're right about 1976, I didn't look all the way down the list and assumed that he was the next highest D, when there was another guy who was on ice for 1 more total goal compared to him. It should read: 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3. I accidentally added one more year in there. Both things have been fixed, thanks for the correction.
- you are on the right track by using gf/ga, but salming was the leafs' #1 defenseman in 1974. This is based on a formula more sophisticated than you are using which, admittedly, seems to have worked rather accurately for McKenny nonetheless. It incorporates the ppgf/ppga numbers to approximate all situational ice time, then adds it up to get a total. It also divides by GP to get a per-game average. Doing what you did would get it wrong about as often as it gets it right, particularly with specialist-type players who spend more time in special teams situations where goals for and against are more plentiful. This is all based on a spreadsheet I got from the hockey analysis yahoogroup.

- that's also where I saw mckenney was listed as a rw in 1976. It makes perfect sense. If you assume he is a d-man, it makes no sense that he drops to 6th on the depth chart, but gets a career high in points per game. In all likelihood he was getting pretty bad defensively towards the end of his career (as he was never that good to begin with) and they tried him on the wing. When I get home I will check my scouting report books, I bet the 1977 edition will mention it.


Last edited by seventieslord: 10-09-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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Old
10-08-2010, 11:28 PM
  #60
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That would explain a good amount. Let me know about the RW thing, because his high PPG with the odd drop on the depth chart would make a lot more sense that way. Being 2nd in ice time to Borje Salming, one of the best defensemen ever, is nothing to shake a sock at for sure.

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Old
10-08-2010, 11:47 PM
  #61
seventieslord
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You're right, it's not, he actually does quite well by looking at ice time. When I get back home to my spreadsheet I will post his ES rankings too, as I think they tell a better story of where he was on the chart. I am guessing he drops a spot in a couple of years because he was a top pp option, but will still look good overall.

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Old
10-08-2010, 11:53 PM
  #62
seventieslord
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Also, if you want to do some research before I get home, there are two things you can do.

1. Check google news for mckenny just in 1975 and 1976, inevitably you will see some mentions of his position.

2. Check at hsp.flyershistory.com for leafs game sheets in 75-76. If he was getting his ES points with the same forwards all the time, he was almost certainly a forward. Defensemen would get their points with all kinds of players.

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Old
10-09-2010, 01:44 AM
  #63
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OK, here's what I found.

The 1977 edition confirms that he moved up to RW when Ron Ellis retired, and "adjusted well".

The 1978 edition actually refers to him as "LW/D" and his scoring numbers in the 1977 season were pretty high. GF/GA figures suggest he had ice time resembling that of a defenseman. He had the 2nd best GPG average of his career, after 1976, when he was a confirmed defenseman. I'm thinking that he definitely split time, but spent enough as a forward that his ranking among defensemen in points is tainted. Unfortunately, he does not have a bio this season to confirm this, but that in itself is evidence that he played forward. a 46-point defenseman would be a shoo-in for a bio; a 46-point forward, not so much.

I checked the first 20 games of the season on the HSP website, and the players he scored points with at even strength are inconclusive. A mixed bag of 3rd and 4th-liners, really. Three pages of google news results for that season have also been inconclusive.

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Old
10-09-2010, 08:03 AM
  #64
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Johnstown Jets select:
C - Martin Straka



Czechoslovakian first team All-Star (1992)
NHL All-Star Game (1999)
Olympcs: 1998 (Gold), 2006 (Bronze)
World Championships: 1994, 2003, 2004, 2005 (Gold)
World Cup: 1996, 2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends of Hockey
Although considered a small player in the NHL, Straka makes great moves on the ice and has the canny ability to score goals as well as set up his teammates. The 2000-01 season saw him collect career highs in assists (68) and points (95) and helped the Penguins reach the Eastern Conference finals.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=11583

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
When you look at the Penguins' first-round draft picks in the 1990's, only Jaromir Jagr (1990) and Martin Straka (1992) ever really paid off for them.

(snip)

Straka came onboard with the Penguins during the 1992-93 season when the Penguins had their greatest regular season but fell short in a quest for a third consecutive Stanley Cup title. He flashed his potential in 1993-94 when he racked up 30 goals and 64 points but was dealt in a trade to the Senators for ******* and ******* in 1994-95.

He was traded again in 1995-96 to the Islanders in a deal that netted the Senators Wade Redden. The Islanders put him on waivers where the Panthers claimed him. He helped the Panthers trap their way to the 1996 Stanley Cup final where they were swept by the Avalanche. That was the only time in Straka's career he would get a taste of the Cup final.

After languishing one more season in Florida, Straka returned to the Penguins as a free agent in 1997 and enjoyed his greatest success in the NHL. He racked up no fewer than 59 points in the three seasons from 1998 through 2001 and helped the Penguins reach at least the second round of the playoffs in each of those three seasons. In 1999 Straka was selected to the All-Star game.

Straka's finest season may have been the 2000-01 campaign when he finished in a three-way tie for fourth place in the league's scoring race with 95 points with teammate Alex Kovalev and Boston's Jason Allison. With Mario Lemieux returning from retirement and being teamed with Jagr and ******* on the team's first line, Straka was partnered with Kovalev and ******* on one of the franchises' more underrated line combinations of all time. Straka also had two pretty big goals in the 2001 postseason for the Penguins. After stealing the puck off former Capitals defenseman Sergei Gonchar, he scored the winning goal of a 4-3 series-clinching overtime win against Washington in the first round. In the next round, he also scored the winning goal in overtime of a 3-2 win in Game 6 against the Sabres. That goal staved off elimination and allowed the Penguins to claim that series in Game 7. Statiscally, Straka is one of the Penguins all-time greats in the postseason. His 46 career points with the Penguins in the postseason is sixth most in the franchise's history.

(snip)

He was traded early in the 2003-04 season in a salary dump to the Kings. After the lockout, he resurfaced with the Rangers and was once again teamed with Jaromir Jagr. Straka regained his scoring touch as he put together two 70-point, 20-goal seasons before battling through an injury-filled 2007-08 season.

Straka found a way to be a successful little man in what was quickly becoming a big man's league in the 1990s. At 5-foot-9, 180 pounds, Straka found a way to outlast more celebrated bruisers like Eric Lindros and still be productive at the end of his career. Straka had a style that was somewhat reckless, but he managed to avoid getting battered by the bigger bodies in the NHL for the most part and became one of the Penguins' most prolific players of all time.


Last edited by DaveG: 10-09-2010 at 08:13 AM.
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Old
10-09-2010, 08:10 AM
  #65
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Listpicks:

Nick Mickoski, LW, Toledo
Scott Mellanby, RW, Regina
Curt Giles, Philadelphia

Hopefully, write-ups to come.

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10-09-2010, 08:24 AM
  #66
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Lubomir Visnovsky, D



- twice top 10 in defenseman scoring
- voted best Slovak player in 2005
- voted six times best Slovak D-man (1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005)
- won gold, silver and bronze at WCs


Last edited by MadArcand: 10-09-2010 at 08:29 AM.
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10-09-2010, 08:33 AM
  #67
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With yesterday's missed pick and today's, the Golden Gaels select one of the best shutdown pair of their era:


Chris Phillips and Anton Volchenkov

Phillips is an obvious value, so I'll concentrate here on profiling the other guy:

Volchenkov captained Russia to gold in the world juniors, got gold in the world championships, played in in the 2006 and 2010 Olympics, has played in 428 NHL games over seven NHL seasons including 61 NHL playoff games, gaining a reputation for his all-out fearless play, shot blocking and checking, effective with his partner against the best forwards of the era.



Quote:
Is one of the best shot-blocking defensemen in NHL history, and thrives in one-on-one battles against top forwards. Plays with tremendous poise. Has a mean streak and is not shy about hitting the opposition.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?2140

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10-09-2010, 09:04 AM
  #68
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The Tigers draft Joe Daley.



Daley is the winningest goaltender in WHA history and has three Avco Cup championships on his resume.

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10-09-2010, 10:38 AM
  #69
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Straka and Phillips are both really good picks.

I've been considering Phillips in every round since the 2/3 mark of the MLD, but there's always been someone I wanted just a little bit more each time.

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10-09-2010, 10:49 AM
  #70
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London selects Red Green, LW

Quote:
Originally Posted by legendsofhockey
Left-winger Redvers Green played with four different NHL clubs in the 20s. He was an accomplished goal scorer as an amateur and pro and could handle the rough side of the game as well.
-Brother of Shorty
-NOHA First All-Star Team (1922)

-5th in NHL points
-1st in NHL assists
-7th, 10th in NHL goals

(note all the above are in split leagues)

-Stanley Cup in 1929
-lost the chance to play for the Stanley Cup in 1925 due to the player's strike by the Hamilton Tigers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
The Tigers had been perennial cellar-dwellers until the 1924-25 season when "Shorty" teamed up with his brother "Red" Green and future Hall of Fame center Billy Burch. The Tigers were serious contenders for the Stanley Cup, and the players tried to use that as leverage in a fight to earn a pay increase...
Over the course of his career, he was the 8th leading scorer in the NHL.


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10-09-2010, 11:50 AM
  #71
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You son of a Van Islander...Phillips was my pick tomorrow.

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10-09-2010, 12:02 PM
  #72
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thru three days...

stolen from the Queen's shortlist: Poile, Mickoski
taken from the Queen's longlist: Bruneteau, Walton, Lewicki, McKenny, Lukowich, Straka, Visnovsky, Daley
decidedly not in Queen's plans: Nedved, Allison, Murray, Stumpel
watched to see how far they'd fall: Satan, Gradin, Mellanby, Giles
overlooked by Queen's scouting: Briere, Streit, Ruttan
interesting picks: Bryzgalov, Drobny, Stuart, Green

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
You son of a Van Islander...Phillips was my pick tomorrow.
No chance. He was pencilled in as my Day 2 pick all along. Barlow, Phillips 1,2 was destiny! Hedberg messed up my plans for the next round or two though, with him taking Mickoski and Poile.

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10-09-2010, 12:14 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
London selects Red Green, LW



-Brother of Shorty
-NOHA First All-Star Team (1922)

-5th in NHL points
-1st in NHL assists
-7th, 10th in NHL goals

(note all the above are in split leagues)

-Stanley Cup in 1929
-lost the chance to play for the Stanley Cup in 1925 due to the player's strike by the Hamilton Tigers:
Over his 5 year career, he was the 8th leading scorer in the NHA.

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10-09-2010, 12:30 PM
  #74
BillyShoe1721
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D Curt Giles



3x North Stars Team MVP
5x North Stars Best Defenseman Award Winner
Captain Minnesota North Stars, 1989-1991
2x Stanley Cup Finalist
242 points in 895 career games
1x World Championship Bronze Medalist
1x Olympic Silver Medalist
2x NCAA West 1st-Team All Star
Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame Member

Quote:
Curt Giles was a steady defenceman who could pass the puck up ice effectively. He played nearly 900 games for three different teams between 1979-80 and 1992-93 but was best known as a fixture on the Minnesota North Stars' blueline.

Born in The Pas, Manitoba, Giles played four years with the University of Minnesota-Duluth and was chosen 54th overall by the North Stars. He began the 1979-80 season with the CHL's Oklahoma City Stars but joined Minnesota when injuries hit their defence corps. Giles stepped in and showed surprising poise for a rookie while helping the team reach the semifinals. Along the way the young Stars defeated the Montreal Canadiens in the quarterfinals to end their four-Cup dynasty.

Beginning in 1980-81 Giles was a regular for over six years in Minnesota and helped the squad reach the Stanley Cup final for the first time in franchise history in 1981. The next year, after Minnesota was upset in the first round of the playoffs, he joined Team Canada and helped them win the bronze medal at the World Championships. Early in the 1986-87 season the steady rearguard was traded to the New York Rangers but returned to his original club twelve months later. In 1991 his veteran savvy helped Minnesota reach the finals for the second time.

Giles spent the 1991-92 season with the Canadian national team and scored a goal as the team won the silver medal at the Albertville Olympics. Following the Olympics he signed as a free agent with the St. Louis Blues and provided experience until he retired in 1993.
-loh.net

Quote:
short and stout he used to destroy guys with a hip/butt check. He'd send guys flying azz over tea kettle; like running into a fire hydrant
-wild.com

Quote:
The most prolific hip checker I have ever seen, a NCAA all-star offensive defenseman who settled in to play a more defense-first game in the NHL, getting heavy minutes as a rookie as his North Stars went to the Stanley Cup Finals, a decade later he would lead the team to the finals again, this time as the veteran captain
-VanIslander


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Old
10-09-2010, 12:41 PM
  #75
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LW Nick Mickoski



13th in Goals, 1951
11th in Goals, 1953
13th in Goals, 1954
9th in Assists, 1955
13th in Goals, 1956
Played in 1956 NHL All-Star Game

Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame:
Quote:
One of the many talented Ukrainian athletes to come out of Winnipeg, Nick Mickoski was at ease with a hockey stick or swinging the golf sticks.

Mickoski, 6’ 1” and 183 lbs. had size and also speed. Between 1947 and 1960, the man they called “Broadway Nick,” and “Galloping Nick,” appeared in 703 NHL games with New York Rangers, Chicago, Detroit and Boston. He recorded 158 goals and 185 assists for 343 points. That would have been a fine career but Mickoski was not ready to call it a day. He played six more seasons in the minors with Providence Reds, Winnipeg Warriors and San Francisco Seals. The Seals won the WHL championship in 1962-63 with Mickoski finishing second in league scoring with 95 points. After a year coaching the Seals, Mickoski played three seasons of senior hockey with Grand Falls, Newfoundland, chalking up a healthy 218 points. He went on to be the last coach of the Winnipeg Junior Jets and the first coach of the WHA Jets.
Legends of Hockey:
Quote:
Left-winger Nick Mickoski played over 700 NHL games for four different clubs during the Original Six era. He was a fine goal scorer and playmaker whose 6'1" frame was difficult to bump off the puck

Beginning in the 1948-49 season, "Broadway Nick" spent parts of seven seasons with the Rangers. After scoring 20 points in 1949-50, he helped the Rangers reach the Stanley Cup finals for the last time in 22 years. During the overtime period of the seventh game, he hit the post.

Mickoski joined the Chicago Black Hawks in 1954-55 and was a fine two- way worker.

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