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(Part Two) #1: Flyers @ Penguins - Thursday, Oct. 7, 2010 -

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Old
10-09-2010, 06:25 PM
  #476
FlyHigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun

The metrics used to determine if a plane will fly safely are probably pretty damn obscure to you, but let's just trust them all the same...


You had two choices.

1. You could have researched where the metric in question came from, thereby understanding it.
2. You could have declared that any concept that you do not understand must be false.
Analogy domination.

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10-09-2010, 09:04 PM
  #477
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[QUOTE=Valhoun;28201536]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
All you have is a hypothesis based on somewhat obscure Sabremetrics./QUOTE]

The metrics used to determine if a plane will fly safely are probably pretty damn obscure to you, but let's just trust them all the same...

You had two choices.

1. You could have researched where the metric in question came from, thereby understanding it.
2. You could have declared that any concept that you do not understand must be false.
I happen to understand both metrics perfectly well.

And please don't tell you are comparing the reliability of sports metrics with engineering metrics. That would just be silly, now, wouldn't it?

According to win-shares the New York Mets should have ran away with the NL East last season. How'd that go?

To twist your analogy a little, the Philadelphia Flyers will not crash into the side of a mountain if we line up Richie at wing for a few games. Instead of using a gimmicky set of statistics to determine outright that the idea won't work, why don't we give it a shot and actually see? I know, I know, I'm talking like a crazy person.

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10-09-2010, 10:17 PM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post

I happen to understand both metrics perfectly well.

And please don't tell you are comparing the reliability of sports metrics with engineering metrics. That would just be silly, now, wouldn't it?

According to win-shares the New York Mets should have ran away with the NL East last season. How'd that go?

To twist your analogy a little, the Philadelphia Flyers will not crash into the side of a mountain if we line up Richie at wing for a few games. Instead of using a gimmicky set of statistics to determine outright that the idea won't work, why don't we give it a shot and actually see? I know, I know, I'm talking like a crazy person.
The same reason engineers don't need esoteric metrics to know that it's a bad idea to put the fuselage where the wings should be and the wings where the fuselage should be...experience and common sense.

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10-09-2010, 11:29 PM
  #479
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people need to learn how to use the quote feature correctly.
Yes I know this probably belongs on the pet peeves thread, but I could not resist mentioning it here reading this page on this thread.

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10-10-2010, 01:01 AM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
The same reason engineers don't need esoteric metrics to know that it's a bad idea to put the fuselage where the wings should be and the wings where the fuselage should be...experience and common sense.
Keep pushing the analogy boys, because you are getting farther and farther away from common sense.

This is a no lose proposition. Richards doesn't work out on the wing? You put him back at center and you are right back where you are now, with 3 spots for 4 centers. If he does work out then you've solved your problems.

I know that Carter, Briere, and Giroux's games don't translate to the wing extremely well because I've seen it with my own eyes. I've nothing to go on about Richie but esoteric metrics that merely tell me he is a fantastic center, and tell me nothing about what he could do on the wing.

See, experience tells me that the first three aren't wingers (well, Briere is a decent winger, but he's an impact player at center) and common sense tells me we can't use any of the four on the fourth line. We aren't trading Briere because I don't believe for a second that he'd waive the NMC, and if his line plays well I don't see it being broken up - meaning he will NOT be a winger. Giroux needs to handle the puck and he'll do that more at center. I sure as hell hope we won't be trading him, because he is and will continue to be the cheapest of the four in the near future and I'm convinced that he'll be a PPG player.

That leaves either trading Carter because of salary + what we could get for him + playing out of place or Carter magically becoming a fantastic winger. I'm not inclined to the former and I'm not holding out much hope for the latter. All of this could be resolved and we can keep the lot of them if Richards could be a more effective winger than any of the three.

I don't see swapping in Carter for Richards on that line causing it a huge downgrade at the center position, particularly since you would still have Richards on the ice, albeit in a different role.

I don't know, it seems worth a shot to me. It could resolve a lot of the problems this team has moving forward. Maybe Carter adapts to the wing, maybe Giroux becomes an all star there, maybe the Briere line does a vanishing act and gets broken up and then Danny is the winger. Or maybe not. In my opinion, it isn't enough to assume any of that. Why not try the one thing we haven't tried yet. If it ends up failing, there's nothing lost.

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10-10-2010, 01:46 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
If it ends up failing, there's nothing lost.
We made the playoffs by a shootout last season. You needlessly lose a game or two due to a silly idea and it can easily bite you in the ass.

Holmgren got himself into a ****** situation with no quick solution.

Moving a Selke candidate to wing is a **** idea. Briere is untradeable. Giroux is vastly important moving forward. Carter is the only guy capable of taking a faceoff.

Carter is good defensively but it boggles the mind how attached he is to playing center. Very little of his game translates into the normal mold of center.

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10-10-2010, 01:51 AM
  #482
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This is totally premature and marginally off-topic, but Googling has failed me, and I'm wondering...

With Pittsburgh losing tonight, their second home game in the new building, I'm curious: what is the longest home winless streak to open a new arena? Any hockey historians out there have an idea? (MSE, I'm lookin' at you.)

It would be amazing if it came to that for the Pens.

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10-10-2010, 03:46 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
This is totally premature and marginally off-topic, but Googling has failed me, and I'm wondering...

With Pittsburgh losing tonight, their second home game in the new building, I'm curious: what is the longest home winless streak to open a new arena? Any hockey historians out there have an idea? (MSE, I'm lookin' at you.)

It would be amazing if it came to that for the Pens.
Even the worst team in history, the expansion Caps, won their 2nd home game and tied their first.

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Old
10-10-2010, 07:57 AM
  #484
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There is no team that plays dirtier or provides mroe after whislte cheap shots than the pens. It isnt even close. Watching the montreal game is funny. The stuff they get away with after the whislte is sad. So many tough guys on that team when a ref is between them and another player. On a side note malkin is ugly as sin.

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10-10-2010, 08:04 AM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
We made the playoffs by a shootout last season. You needlessly lose a game or two due to a silly idea and it can easily bite you in the ass.

Holmgren got himself into a ****** situation with no quick solution.

Moving a Selke candidate to wing is a **** idea. Briere is untradeable. Giroux is vastly important moving forward. Carter is the only guy capable of taking a faceoff.
1. The season is a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, a lost game can bite you in the ass, but worse would be having a 46 goal scorer playing out of position and not being effective.

2. Why can only centers be Selke candidates? I understand that there are more defensive responsibilities at the center ice position, but I seem to recall Lehtinen being a Selke candidate year in and year out as a wing.

3. Your last three sentences are exactly my point. If Briere is untradeable, and Giroux is vastly important moving forward, and Carter is the only guy proficient on face-offs, doesn't that kind of then dictate thinking outside of the box and wondering if Richards can be the best of the four on the wing? It's literally the only thing we haven't tried.

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Old
10-10-2010, 09:42 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
There is no team that plays dirtier or provides mroe after whislte cheap shots than the pens. It isnt even close. Watching the montreal game is funny. The stuff they get away with after the whislte is sad. So many tough guys on that team when a ref is between them and another player. On a side note malkin is ugly as sin.
You said the same thing on the main board--and no one cared. Even Flyers fans are bored with the same ol' crap. Nice try. Originality might work if you want to prompt discussion.

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Old
10-10-2010, 02:15 PM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondello View Post
You said the same thing on the main board--and no one cared. Even Flyers fans are bored with the same ol' crap. Nice try. Originality might work if you want to prompt discussion.
Nice try at what? the truth? Didnt realize speaking the truth had to be about being original. Any thing else you there chief? Do you work at eat and park by chance?

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