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Old
10-11-2010, 10:26 AM
  #26
MrHockey1982
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I hate losing Gagne but you guys must remember that one of the biggest reasons we lost in the finals last year (other than Leighton sucking) was that we overplayed our top 4 especially Pronger on a bad knee because our 3rd pairing was a waste. It sucks that Meszaros makes 4 mil but let's reserve judgement until we get Pronger back and can assess our entire D core. HOWEVER, so far Shelley looks like a turd. A completely useless turd that will take horrible penalties all season and have no contribution otherwise unless he is fighting big guys. Either way I am excited for this season because as many have said our D is arguably the best.

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10-11-2010, 10:36 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I hate losing Gagne but you guys must remember that one of the biggest reasons we lost in the finals last year (other than Leighton sucking) was that we overplayed our top 4 especially Pronger on a bad knee because our 3rd pairing was a waste. It sucks that Meszaros makes 4 mil but let's reserve judgement until we get Pronger back and can assess our entire D core. HOWEVER, so far Shelley looks like a turd. A completely useless turd that will take horrible penalties all season and have no contribution otherwise unless he is fighting big guys. Either way I am excited for this season because as many have said our D is arguably the best.
insetad of 4mm for Mezaros, they could have spent 2mm for a bottom pairing dman and another 2mm for a legit top 9 forward. That would have been using yoru resources mroe wisely dont you think?

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10-11-2010, 10:46 AM
  #28
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insetad of 4mm for Mezaros, they could have spent 2mm for a bottom pairing dman and another 2mm for a legit top 9 forward. That would have been using yoru resources mroe wisely dont you think?

I agree that Meszaros' cap hit is huge but it's only been 2 games and there's nothing that we can do about it now. If we move JVR to the first line with Richards and Carter and put Carcillo with Giroux and Zherdev I believe that our top 9 is up there with the best in the league so I'm not sure why we'd need another forward. Shelley is just poor though on that fourth line and I miss Lappy already. Let's give the D a chance with Pronger in to see how good they really are. We haven't even seen it yet!

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10-11-2010, 10:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
So far O'donnell is our worst looking Dman out there.

I haven't seen many errors from Mez, but it is to early to say anything about how he will pan out. Mez should be seen as someone who can fill in at the top 4 role, when/if someone goes down.

So far Coburn looks great and I think he is clearly our #3 right now.
Maybe that was okay before the salary cap era, but now? $4m is entirely too much to pay a guy to just be a top-4 fill-in from time to time, IMO.

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10-11-2010, 11:14 AM
  #30
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Maybe that was okay before the salary cap era, but now? $4m is entirely too much to pay a guy to just be a top-4 fill-in from time to time, IMO.
True, but we might not be saying this a few months down the road when/if one of our top Dman go down for a long period.

With our goalie situation being an unknown, having great depth on the blue line is critical, even if it is at the cost of some scoring depth.

Weather or not it is the best decision is a little more tricky.

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10-11-2010, 01:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
True, but we might not be saying this a few months down the road when/if one of our top Dman go down for a long period.

With our goalie situation being an unknown, having great depth on the blue line is critical, even if it is at the cost of some scoring depth.

Weather or not it is the best decision is a little more tricky.
Sure, if one of our big defensemen sustains an injury he'll probably be in the top-4 and that will help us out.

But he's kind of a very expensive insurance policy, but still isn't actually good.

It's kind of like you went out and got some premium HMO that will pay for your ambulance ride to the hospital and maybe some pain meds, but won't actually get you the surgery you need to really be healthy.

Okay, that analogy was a little ridiculous and ambiguous, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. I think my point still stands: he's really expensive for what he is.

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10-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #32
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So far O'donnell is our worst looking Dman out there.
Agreed. He's had a few awful turnovers in his own zone and he looks slower than I remember.

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10-11-2010, 02:02 PM
  #33
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If we win a cup, does it make sense then?
Winning a Cup makes everything seem a little better, but it still wouldn't make sense in a cap structured league.

Anyways, forgive me if I don't think having Andrej Meszaros on our third pairing is going to push us over the edge.

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10-11-2010, 02:19 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Winning a Cup makes everything seem a little better, but it still wouldn't make sense in a cap structured league.

Anyways, forgive me if I don't think having Andrej Meszaros on our third pairing is going to push us over the edge.
But, but they now have depth on defense. Had they had a solid 3rd pairing last year they would have won the cup. So when they come up short this year, i wonder who Shooter will address the team shortcomings? I still cant believe i am sitting here today, the season has started and they have 7mm tied up on the 5,6,and 8th spot on defense. Simply moronic.

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10-11-2010, 02:22 PM
  #35
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But, but they now have depth on defense. Had they had a solid 3rd pairing last year they would have won the cup. So when they come up short this year, i wonder who Shooter will address the team shortcomings? I still cant believe i am sitting here today, the season has started and they have 7mm tied up on the 5,6,and 8th spot on defense. Simply moronic.
Our third pairing is still kind of weak and so is our extra d-man spot. So he didn't do a very good job solving that problem.

We downgraded from Gagne to Zherdev and the goalie situation still isn't solved, although Homer may end up being saved there by Bobrovsky.

So, yeah, Homer didn't rebuild anything really. He actually ****ed up trying to fix stuff.


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Old
10-11-2010, 02:27 PM
  #36
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Our third pairing is still kind of weak and so is our extra d-man spot. So he didn't do a very good spot solving that problem.

We downgraded from Gagne to Zherdev and the goalie situation still isn't solved, although Homer may end up being saved there by Bobrovsky.

So, yeah, Homer didn't rebuild anything really. He actually ****ed up trying to fix stuff.
Thats what cracks me up. Bartulis is still in the top 6 right now. He said they needed to improve yet one guy they wanted to improve on is playing. I dont have a problem with that as he has played ok as #6 guy. Signing odonnel to play with bartulis would have been fine. Then maybe you get a mike mottou or someone of that ilk to round it out. Come the playoffs imo the 3rd pair still wont play much, 10-12 minutes. That is better than the 4 minutes they played last year. However the cost isnt jsutified by any means.

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10-11-2010, 03:24 PM
  #37
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How about we give Andrej Meszaros more than 2 regular season games before we completely give up on him? Sure, his cap hit is hefty but from what I've seen of him he's a very solid defenseman. I think everybody's just so upset about losing Gags (should have been Carter in my opinion) that they automatically hate Meszaros, O'Donnell and Walker because they wouldn't be here if he still was.

That being said, I am excited for the defense this season and am really looking forward to seeing what Zherdev can do.

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10-11-2010, 03:33 PM
  #38
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How about we give Andrej Meszaros more than 2 regular season games before we completely give up on him? Sure, his cap hit is hefty but from what I've seen of him he's a very solid defenseman. I think everybody's just so upset about losing Gags (should have been Carter in my opinion) that they automatically hate Meszaros, O'Donnell and Walker because they wouldn't be here if he still was.

That being said, I am excited for the defense this season and am really looking forward to seeing what Zherdev can do.
Meszaros hasn't played to the quality of his paycheck so far this season or for even several seasons now. No reason to assume he'll suddenly turn it around until he actually does.

Even if he does turn it around it's still bad cap management to be spending around 8 mill to fill our your bottom pairing plus extra men.

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10-11-2010, 03:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Our third pairing is still kind of weak and so is our extra d-man spot. So he didn't do a very good job solving that problem.

We downgraded from Gagne to Zherdev and the goalie situation still isn't solved, although Homer may end up being saved there by Bobrovsky.

So, yeah, Homer didn't rebuild anything really. He actually ****ed up trying to fix stuff.
(Not everything in this post is directed at you)

Everyone's 3rd pairing is going to be at best kind of weak, but we do have the deepest blueline. If you don't think it is an upgrade from last year, then there is something wrong with you.

I agree 4 million is probably too much of an insurance policy, but it is way to early to decide how Mez will pan out.

Also Bartulis was a rookie, and did pretty well considering he was probably in over his head. Not keeping Bartulis; a young, developing and cheap defense man would have be the wrong move.

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10-11-2010, 03:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
How about we give Andrej Meszaros more than 2 regular season games before we completely give up on him? Sure, his cap hit is hefty but from what I've seen of him he's a very solid defenseman. I think everybody's just so upset about losing Gags (should have been Carter in my opinion) that they automatically hate Meszaros, O'Donnell and Walker because they wouldn't be here if he still was.

That being said, I am excited for the defense this season and am really looking forward to seeing what Zherdev can do.
it really has little to do with Mezaros himself. Teh terrible way the cap is managed is the issue. Then when you look at him being paid 4mm, that is brutal. He hasnt lived up to his ocntract since he signed it. It doesnt make him a bad dman just very overpaid by 50%.

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10-11-2010, 09:38 PM
  #41
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Another team with an overpaid 5th Dman is Vancouver. Their top 4 is solid... Hamhuis, Edler, Ehrhoff, Ballard...


But their 5th is paid 3.7 (not much less than Mesz) and is Kevin Bieksa. Lotta complaints about his game, he's considered overpaid as well.

(Salo is injured and speculation is Bieksa may be gone when SALO returns.. Salo is paid about the same as Bieksa but considered much better)

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10-11-2010, 09:45 PM
  #42
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I watched most of this game and the D did a good job of keeping down the chances from point blank range in comparison to how many shots they gave up overall but the key is BOBROVSKY. I said it two months ago, he will solve your goaltending problems. All the blueliners have to do to win games with him in net is to not allow breakaways and 3rd or 4th shots because he's stopping 2 on 1's and 2nd shots with ease almost every time.

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10-11-2010, 10:11 PM
  #43
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Mez is here to replace kimmo. In two years kimmo will be outta here.

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10-11-2010, 10:53 PM
  #44
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Boy I'm sure glad Walker is making good use of his 1.7M....he looked real snazzy in his suit tonight when they announced him as a scratch during the opening game festivities....

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10-11-2010, 10:57 PM
  #45
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Mez is here to replace kimmo. In two years kimmo will be outta here.
No one can truly replace Kimmo

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10-12-2010, 02:42 AM
  #46
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if holmgren had sent stevie y a house warming gift and traded the 2nd for walker after making attempts at hamhuis and turco id have been rejoicing at the idea of zherdev as a ninth forward. you can probably even manage the odonnel signing without losing gags but i dont know that anyone agrees with how we got here but here we are.

matt carle had a mediocre preseason but had some really nice plays in game 2. my hunch is that the pronger effect has niot just improve dhis stats its improved his play. while not a legit first pairing guy i think the difference between 2 and 3 will shrink this year. pronger will remain number 1. chris pronger will remain chris pronger.

i like what i see from coburn so far. possibly another pronger effect is coburn discovering his physical game. this as well as his shiny new contract has me thinking it may be him anchoring his own paring. possibly with odonnel. i feel theyd compliment each other well with the savvy older (slower) odonnel providing backup on a nice shutdown pair. coburn could also showcase his ability to move the puck possibly getting better minutes for them.

kimo may be able to showcase his offensive abilities a little more with coburns improved ability in his own end or if paired with a more defensive minded d like walker or odonnell. pairing him with meszaros could benefit meszaros incredibly but i dont know thatd do much for kimos game. meszaros showed alot of promise paired with chara and outshined a declining redden in ottowa and i think kimos ability to cover his partners flaws could polish meszaros til we have two top pairings.

bartulis never excited me as a prospect but as a defensman being unexciting can be a great quality. his status on the team this year will depend on if any of the more interesting d prospects show any life and how long it takes to do it. i see bourdon and gustaffson breathing down his neck hard and thier ability to go up and down to the farm makes an 8th d a serious luxury. being big kept okt on the squad last year and i think it does the same for walker despite his cap hit.

so im pretty excited about the improved defense this year. though its mostly about the younger guys we had improving and growing then it is about any of the additions

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10-12-2010, 06:46 AM
  #47
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Mez was fantastic last night, big hits, clearing the crease, nice outlet passes. He played to his pricetag last night.

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10-12-2010, 08:29 AM
  #48
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Mez was fantastic last night, big hits, clearing the crease, nice outlet passes. He played to his pricetag last night.
He was, but I think Carle was the best D-man on the ice last night. He really had a great game.

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10-12-2010, 08:55 AM
  #49
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He was, but I think Carle was the best D-man on the ice last night. He really had a great game.
I've been really impressed with him throughout the preseason and the first three games so far. He's got a confidence about him.

It'll be great if we see that Matt Carle night in and night out.

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10-12-2010, 09:09 AM
  #50
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I think Walker spent 1.7 mil on that suit from last night.

All joking aside, when one of our d-men get injured, bartulis/walker will be there to fill in. But it does seem strange that we pay Walker so much to sit. Seems like we will have to waive one of them.

Great game last night but a shaky second period. We really need to move Carcillo off the first line and put JVR up there. Maybe even Giroux on Richie's RW? Put Carter back at center with Zherdev and Carcillo. Maybe Zherdev will do something then.

The story though continues to be Bob with solid play. A somewhat weak second goal but he looks fantastic. Hope he can keep it going!

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