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2010/11 Fire Randy Carlyle / Bob Murray (Bob Extended 4 Yrs/ Fans = Life Sentence)

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Old
10-11-2010, 08:26 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
The players clearly have tuned Carlyle out and seem to be going through the motions right now. Unless the players come and say we don't want to see him get fired, he has to go. I think he'll do where with a fresh start somewhere else.

If Murray doesn't pull a rabbit out of his hat soon, he's gone at the end of the season. Can't miss playoffs two years in a small market like us and take such a big loss in revenue.
I disagree, I think it's time this team commits to a rebuilding effort. I don't think that there is much pressure to be a competitive team and make the playoffs year in and year out since, like you said, this is a small market team in a non-traditional setting. That's why I think it's beneficial for this team to just blow up, sell most of its players except for Getzlaf/Perry/Ryan/Fowler/Sbisa/Selanne(Selanne is the only exception)/Hiller(for now, may become expendable later) and stockpile up on picks and prospects. Furthermore because this is a small market team, it is more affordable to go on a rebuilding effort due to the team's overall anonymity and lack of pressure, from the media and fans, to ice a competitive team on a yearly basis and it's not like we're getting sellouts every night with how we're doing right now so it's not like we're losing a lot going through the rebuilding process either. In short, low cost and much to gain 2-3 years down the road.

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10-11-2010, 09:38 PM
  #52
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Either Murray needs to go, or they both do. Just firing Carlyle won't do anything. When you expose holes on a team, and then do not properly fill them for two years in a row, something is wrong. People say the team has tuned out Carlyle, but who has really been here long enough to do that? RPG, Selanne, Hiller, Marchant, Parros. Well Ryan, RFA or not, just signed here for 5 years, Selanne keeps coming back, and Hiller was handed the #1 role by Carlyle and Giguere was cast aside without much chance for redemption (for example not playing several games and then getting his shot against Washington -- real fair). I mean tuning the coach out is possible, but I don't feel it has been this long agonizing process it has been made to be here.

People say Murray wanted to avoid Pronger's next contract, but he didn't have anything to replace him. As much as I love Niedermayer, it was clear which player was committed to hockey for several more years, and so we kept Scott for a farewell season? We are treading in Burke territory as far as player loyalty goes...I think both are dominate #1 defenders and we surely would have paid Niedermayer $6M+ until retirement, so why not Pronger? Either they both go, or Murray goes. I don't care what coach is brought in, under Murray he will always have a disadvantage to work with. The only true blessing from Murray is that through his incompetence, we somehow managed to finish low enough to be able to steal Fowler. Now as a Ducks fan I have to say, please Murray prove me wrong and fix this sinking ship. I would love nothing more than to be wrong.

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10-11-2010, 10:05 PM
  #53
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We are treading in Burke territory as far as player loyalty goes...I think both are dominate #1 defenders and we surely would have paid Niedermayer $6M+ until retirement, so why not Pronger?
Because Niedermayer was doing 1 year contracts with no risk of him leaving. While Pronger wanted a long term extension that is a 35+ contract, so the cap hit stays for the full contract even if he gets hurt or retires.

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10-11-2010, 10:06 PM
  #54
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At this point, I want both gone, but realistically I can only see Caryle being fired if the Ducks continue to suck.

Murray just doesn't seem to have a plan. Say what you want about Burke, but he had a plan. Yes, he isn't so good at rebuilding, which is why his departure was somewhat timely, but still.

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Old
10-11-2010, 10:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by davidy2d View Post
People say the team has tuned out Carlyle, but who has really been here long enough to do that? RPG, Selanne, Hiller, Marchant, Parros. Well Ryan, RFA or not, just signed here for 5 years, Selanne keeps coming back, and Hiller was handed the #1 role
Well you pretty much named the entire leadership of the team. If they are tired of him and arent giving a great effort or following his instructions, what are the new guys or younger guys going to think?

As for Selanne, he lives in OC and does not want to move. Ryan was an RFA and did not get an offer sheet so what is he to do? Sit out a year and look like a greedy SOB? Hiller has earned the job and cost less so you had to get rid of Giggy.

Teams not wanting to play for a coach happen all the time. Look around the league and then to other sports and you will see it.

RC needs to go.

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10-11-2010, 10:38 PM
  #56
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Murray promised us a competitive team and then proceeded to ice the worst blueline the team has had since early last decade, if not earlier. Either rebuild or compete, don't make half assed signings that are little use on the ice and take spots away from young guys.

Caryle has probably worn out his welcome also but IMO Murray is far more at fault than Carlyle is. They both need to go but if Murray fires Carlyle and is kept on himself then I will be pissed.


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Old
10-11-2010, 10:53 PM
  #57
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Well you pretty much named the entire leadership of the team. If they are tired of him and arent giving a great effort or following his instructions, what are the new guys or younger guys going to think?

As for Selanne, he lives in OC and does not want to move. Ryan was an RFA and did not get an offer sheet so what is he to do? Sit out a year and look like a greedy SOB? Hiller has earned the job and cost less so you had to get rid of Giggy.

Teams not wanting to play for a coach happen all the time. Look around the league and then to other sports and you will see it.

RC needs to go.
I know it exists I just don't think it's the lone factor here. Selanne supposedly came back to play with a winning team, I don't think a coach he can't stand is worth coming back for, especially given the roster put together.

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10-11-2010, 11:02 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by davidy2d View Post
I know it exists I just don't think it's the lone factor here. Selanne supposedly came back to play with a winning team, I don't think a coach he can't stand is worth coming back for, especially given the roster put together.
Selanne also came back because his best years were here, his home and family is here as well. Regardless of who's coaching this team, Selanne would've stayed no matter what because he loves being in Anaheim in general.

As for the other guys, I think they've tuned Carlyle out 2 years ago since the start of 2009-2010. It seems like the key guys, Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan were just going through the motions along with the occasional fancy play and/or dumb penalty. The difference being is that Scott Niedermayer was the captain trying to hold the team together. Getzlaf getting the "C" on his jersey gives him a louder voice in that locker room because now, he's the guy that everyone must follow. Likewise, Carlyle has to talk to Getzlaf first to try and get everyone on the same page. Getzlaf understand that it is his job to transmit the same message to his teammates that his coach tells him. But because Getzlaf's tuning him out, most of the team at least, has tuned Carlyle out as well due to Getzlaf's influence.

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10-11-2010, 11:06 PM
  #59
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This has been a long time coming but carlyle has to go. This is the first adversity he has faced, before he had a team to good to lose now its just average and failing

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10-11-2010, 11:37 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by davidy2d View Post
I know it exists I just don't think it's the lone factor here. Selanne supposedly came back to play with a winning team, I don't think a coach he can't stand is worth coming back for, especially given the roster put together.
It could be a major factor. I also attribute the play to a bad system. The league has caught up to Cayle and it appears he just cant adjust.

Combine a group of players who it seems dont want to play hard for a coach with an apparent old system or style of play and you get a horrible hockey team.

Now dont get me wrong, Murray has to shoulder a lot of the blame for not assembling a decent team. He also is obvisuoly not on the same page as the coach since he has aquired players who cant or wont learn Caryle's arcaic brand of hockey. The problem is that most teams simply dont fire a GM mid season (I could be wrong but I dont think it happens very often). If the GM is staying, then the coach will bear the wrath of the owner and fans and should be fired.

New blood on behind the bench could work wonders......

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10-12-2010, 12:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by S.S. Giggy View Post
Selanne also came back because his best years were here, his home and family is here as well. Regardless of who's coaching this team, Selanne would've stayed no matter what because he loves being in Anaheim in general.

As for the other guys, I think they've tuned Carlyle out 2 years ago since the start of 2009-2010. It seems like the key guys, Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan were just going through the motions along with the occasional fancy play and/or dumb penalty. The difference being is that Scott Niedermayer was the captain trying to hold the team together. Getzlaf getting the "C" on his jersey gives him a louder voice in that locker room because now, he's the guy that everyone must follow. Likewise, Carlyle has to talk to Getzlaf first to try and get everyone on the same page. Getzlaf understand that it is his job to transmit the same message to his teammates that his coach tells him. But because Getzlaf's tuning him out, most of the team at least, has tuned Carlyle out as well due to Getzlaf's influence.
thats a lot of assumption.. not saying your wrong but its an interesting take

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10-12-2010, 12:57 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by davidy2d View Post
Either Murray needs to go, or they both do. Just firing Carlyle won't do anything. When you expose holes on a team, and then do not properly fill them for two years in a row, something is wrong. People say the team has tuned out Carlyle, but who has really been here long enough to do that? RPG, Selanne, Hiller, Marchant, Parros. Well Ryan, RFA or not, just signed here for 5 years, Selanne keeps coming back, and Hiller was handed the #1 role by Carlyle and Giguere was cast aside without much chance for redemption (for example not playing several games and then getting his shot against Washington -- real fair). I mean tuning the coach out is possible, but I don't feel it has been this long agonizing process it has been made to be here.
That really doesn't make much sense. We've seen countless coaches get the axe midseason and their replacements lead the teams to much improved records(the past 2 Eastern teams in the SCF did just that), yet I can't recall too many times where a GM comes in midseason and makes a huge impact. In fact, the only one I can recall is Murray doing it himself.

With how pathetic the team is playing, it's pretty clear a new coach is needed. And if it turns out that that's not enough, a new GM will probably be needed too.

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10-12-2010, 01:02 AM
  #63
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With how pathetic the team is playing, it's pretty clear a new coach is needed. And if it turns out that that's not enough, a new GM will probably be needed too.
That would be the logical way to do it. Unfortunately I'm not sure how often this organization employs logic anymore.

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10-12-2010, 01:44 AM
  #64
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Its a coincidence that the team started sucking every since Murray and his horrible arrogant cheapskate tactics took over right? I mean its hard give a proven commodity like Carlyle the benefit of the doubt that maybe its just impossible to win with a complete crap D.
Lets keep kissing Murrays ass, im trying to figure what his brain mind tricks he uses to keep 90% of blind Ducks fans to keep supporting him i mean how much more destruction does he need to do to prove he is not an NHL caliber GM? Lets again player examine the D this season and last and make sure we blame the right person

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10-12-2010, 01:53 AM
  #65
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Even if it's just Murray's fault and not so much Carlyle's, the coach usually goes first. Either Murray will fire him and get a new coach. Or the owners will fire them both. There's no chance that Carlyle will be here and Murray won't.

But it's hard with the injuries. But even with Lydman and Sutton out, and the defense being bad even when everyone is healthy, they shouldn't be outshot with 14-50+. There's no work ethic, and the offense can't take the puck up ice either whenever they actually have the puck. Both should be fired soon if nothing happens. Carlyle didn't exactly do well the last 2 or 3 seasons either.

A couple of teams in the Swedish Tier 2 could do better than this, and they sure have worse D than this team.

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Old
10-12-2010, 02:00 AM
  #66
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This is a very interesting topic because there's so many elements to it. We clearly have a coach and a GM who don't see eye to eye. Murray wants an offense first mentality and RC wants his usual defense first mentality. Now in fairness to RC, he has tried to adopt Murray's philosophy, but as the preseason showed, we don't have the roster to do it.

Here's my flaws with both guys:

Carlyle:
I don't think there's any question that the team has pretty much given up on his style. Whether it's Randy, his long practices, or their piss poor work ethic, I don't know. He needs to do something, what that something is, i do not know. I really hate his dump and chase mentality. It causes to many turnovers and it seems to wear the players out. His all out practices seem to be affecting the players to. Not only do they look worn out on some nights but I think that could be a reason some players might have "tuned him out". I also hate his line combinations the majority of the time and he seriously lacks in his ability to develop prospects. Things that he has going for him are that his system has brought us the ultimate goal and IMO there aren't any better options right now.

Murray:
IMO Murray has been overrated every year he's been here. He makes a flashy move every now and then that keeps him in the fan's good graces. His best move no question was Whitney for Lubo, but ask yourself would you trade Kunitz and Tangradi for Lubo. I probably would, but after watching this season, it's a lot closer then we previously thought due to Lubo not being able to carry this team as a #1. One of the biggest things I have against Murray is his tendancy to just play it safe. I've made it known in several other threads about my frustration over his lack of urgency. I'm not going to get into that too much since I've gone over it in detail before, but I will say there is no way in hell I believe he was aggressive in Martin's availability at the start of free agency. His comments lead me to believe that he only got involved on the 1st day because other GMs were. People can argue all they want, but my mind is made up on that. The fact that he lacked urgency there is 100% unacceptable imo, and is just reason for termination. You don't "wait and see" when the need is that big, you go make it happen. I also hate Murray's obsession with players who had potential or players who were once good. These signings have killed us in his tenure here. Eminger, Boynton, and Mara were all horrible signings. They didn't just effect us when they were here either, their still affecting us. He shys away way too much from being aggressive in signings IMO. The thing that bothers me the most is that he identified the defense as a weakness and managed to downgrade it. Use the Scotty retirement excuse all you want, but he also downgraded our #4 defenseman in Sutton. Look at this way, take away the Mara and Litja signings, then take a million off of Selanne's salary, and you get 2.5 million that could have been used to on the defense. Selanne admitted that they just accepted the offer that was given immediately. Do you honestly think Selanne would rather have that extra million or another chance at competing for the cup? I think the later no question. Our team has gotten worse every year Murray has been in charge. The things he has going for him are that he's drafted well, restocked the prospect pool, and made a few good trades.

I honestly think Murray should go first. Like mentioned above our team has gotten worse every year he's been here despite having a similar pay roll. He's made awful signings, shyed away from being aggressive when the needs great, and IMO he's done a terrible job at putting this roster together. He wants a high scoring team but we don't have the wingers to do it, and IMO if you want a high scoring team you have to have quality defenders who can make up for the forwards tendancies to focus on offense. He has downgraded the quality of the defense. You want to fire RC fine, there's obvious reasons that's ok, but Murray has to go too. No coach could win with this roster.

Last thing I want to comment about is the debate some are having about the comparison of changing GMs and coaches in the middle of the season. Yes, sometimes a coaching change does inspire a team, but that's not always the case. We shoudn't be focussing on this year because our defense will get us no where reguardless of who is coaching. I think RC being here helps us more long term then Murray. Yes RC struggles at developing prospects (scratching Sbisa instead of sending him down is unexcusable), but he's also done well with prospects like the twins and Penner. Murray just makes too many mistakes for this team to succeed imo. He has this vision of a high scoring team but doesn't do a good job of building it. We also ice an AHL calibre defense, despite having a large payroll.

Bottom line: Murray should be the one to go first. Our roster is a joke, despite having a large payroll.

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10-12-2010, 02:31 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
This is a very interesting topic because there's so many elements to it. We clearly have a coach and a GM who don't see eye to eye. Murray wants an offense first mentality and RC wants his usual defense first mentality. Now in fairness to RC, he has tried to adopt Murray's philosophy, but as the preseason showed, we don't have the roster to do it.

Here's my flaws with both guys:

Carlyle:
I don't think there's any question that the team has pretty much given up on his style. Whether it's Randy, his long practices, or their piss poor work ethic, I don't know. He needs to do something, what that something is, i do not know. I really hate his dump and chase mentality. It causes to many turnovers and it seems to wear the players out. His all out practices seem to be affecting the players to. Not only do they look worn out on some nights but I think that could be a reason some players might have "tuned him out". I also hate his line combinations the majority of the time and he seriously lacks in his ability to develop prospects. Things that he has going for him are that his system has brought us the ultimate goal and IMO there aren't any better options right now.

Murray:
IMO Murray has been overrated every year he's been here. He makes a flashy move every now and then that keeps him in the fan's good graces. His best move no question was Whitney for Lubo, but ask yourself would you trade Kunitz and Tangradi for Lubo. I probably would, but after watching this season, it's a lot closer then we previously thought due to Lubo not being able to carry this team as a #1. One of the biggest things I have against Murray is his tendancy to just play it safe. I've made it known in several other threads about my frustration over his lack of urgency. I'm not going to get into that too much since I've gone over it in detail before, but I will say there is no way in hell I believe he was aggressive in Martin's availability at the start of free agency. His comments lead me to believe that he only got involved on the 1st day because other GMs were. People can argue all they want, but my mind is made up on that. The fact that he lacked urgency there is 100% unacceptable imo, and is just reason for termination. You don't "wait and see" when the need is that big, you go make it happen. I also hate Murray's obsession with players who had potential or players who were once good. These signings have killed us in his tenure here. Eminger, Boynton, and Mara were all horrible signings. They didn't just effect us when they were here either, their still affecting us. He shys away way too much from being aggressive in signings IMO. The thing that bothers me the most is that he identified the defense as a weakness and managed to downgrade it. Use the Scotty retirement excuse all you want, but he also downgraded our #4 defenseman in Sutton. Look at this way, take away the Mara and Litja signings, then take a million off of Selanne's salary, and you get 2.5 million that could have been used to on the defense. Selanne admitted that they just accepted the offer that was given immediately. Do you honestly think Selanne would rather have that extra million or another chance at competing for the cup? I think the later no question. Our team has gotten worse every year Murray has been in charge. The things he has going for him are that he's drafted well, restocked the prospect pool, and made a few good trades.

I honestly think Murray should go first. Like mentioned above our team has gotten worse every year he's been here despite having a similar pay roll. He's made awful signings, shyed away from being aggressive when the needs great, and IMO he's done a terrible job at putting this roster together. He wants a high scoring team but we don't have the wingers to do it, and IMO if you want a high scoring team you have to have quality defenders who can make up for the forwards tendancies to focus on offense. He has downgraded the quality of the defense. You want to fire RC fine, there's obvious reasons that's ok, but Murray has to go too. No coach could win with this roster.

Last thing I want to comment about is the debate some are having about the comparison of changing GMs and coaches in the middle of the season. Yes, sometimes a coaching change does inspire a team, but that's not always the case. We shoudn't be focussing on this year because our defense will get us no where reguardless of who is coaching. I think RC being here helps us more long term then Murray. Yes RC struggles at developing prospects (scratching Sbisa instead of sending him down is unexcusable), but he's also done well with prospects like the twins and Penner. Murray just makes too many mistakes for this team to succeed imo. He has this vision of a high scoring team but doesn't do a good job of building it. We also ice an AHL calibre defense, despite having a large payroll.

Bottom line: Murray should be the one to go first. Our roster is a joke, despite having a large payroll.
Agree with a lot, but Visnovsky isn't a concern for me. He's pretty average defensively under normal circumstances and useless when the team is in the defensive zone 50 minutes per game. When the team starts getting the puck into the offensive zone he'll be much better imo.

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10-12-2010, 04:24 AM
  #68
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Well my local football [soccer] team just fired their manager, me thinks it's an omen!

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10-12-2010, 04:48 AM
  #69
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I think it's time to fire RC.It's just the normal reaction in sports to handle such a situation

While not everything is Carlyles fault,he wasn't able to bring out the best of our players.And the first 3 games let me think that this team doesn't believe in him anymore.
Therefore I think we should get a new coach and see how it works out.And if our team won't improve,we can still make the move to fire Murray.But I think it won't make much difference to fire your GM in october or december.

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10-12-2010, 07:10 AM
  #70
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We've looked beyond horrible these first 3 games, but as far people expecting anyone to get fired I believe we're a ways away from that. Everyone has to remember that Randy brought a championship to this team, which more than likely buys him a longer leash than the average coach.

Again, the way the team has played has been ugly and discouraging, but if any coach were to get fired for 1) losing the first three games in the season 2) all on the road 3) to teams that that in all likelihood have a better chance at the playoff than the Ducks 4) While missing a top 6 forward and two top 4 defensemen on an already bad defense, well I say that just not very sensible, and textbook jumping the gun.

I think people should just relax, were not very good this year, but were not this bad. A lot of this is just frustration on the players part, IM sure things will stop being so chaotic as soon as we play our first home game, get our first lead, first win..

And if not, larsson sure would be nice

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10-12-2010, 07:46 AM
  #71
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That really doesn't make much sense. We've seen countless coaches get the axe midseason and their replacements lead the teams to much improved records(the past 2 Eastern teams in the SCF did just that), yet I can't recall too many times where a GM comes in midseason and makes a huge impact. In fact, the only one I can recall is Murray doing it himself.

With how pathetic the team is playing, it's pretty clear a new coach is needed. And if it turns out that that's not enough, a new GM will probably be needed too.
A new coach is probably necessary but to want Murray in place after what he has (not) done doesn't make much sense either.

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10-12-2010, 08:06 AM
  #72
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We've looked beyond horrible these first 3 games, but as far people expecting anyone to get fired I believe we're a ways away from that. Everyone has to remember that Randy brought a championship to this team, which more than likely buys him a longer leash than the average coach.

Again, the way the team has played has been ugly and discouraging, but if any coach were to get fired for 1) losing the first three games in the season 2) all on the road 3) to teams that that in all likelihood have a better chance at the playoff than the Ducks 4) While missing a top 6 forward and two top 4 defensemen on an already bad defense, well I say that just not very sensible, and textbook jumping the gun.

I think people should just relax, were not very good this year, but were not this bad. A lot of this is just frustration on the players part, IM sure things will stop being so chaotic as soon as we play our first home game, get our first lead, first win..

And if not, larsson sure would be nice
I guess he used most of the leash last season already...seriously, not making the playoffs and starting that awful to the new season (and if we lose the next few games) should be enough for most coaches to be fired.

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Old
10-12-2010, 08:49 AM
  #73
Fighter
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I can't believe we are spending 55 millions on a team who is made in a large part of scrubs.

The first to blame is Murray, I tried to understand some of his moves but the team has been downhill since he took over and the actual team is inexcusable.

On the other hand, with the team clearly in rebuilding mode, RC is the last coach you want to develop prospects and the team is not responding to him anyway.

Fire both and start from RPG and the 2011 first overall pick

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10-12-2010, 10:41 AM
  #74
Mwd711
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I have a few thoughts on this.

First off, some of you really need to get past Paul Martin. There's no evidence that he ever had any interest in signing with the Ducks. None. If you had to choose between the Ducks and 29 other teams, I'm sure the Ducks would be low on your likely destination list. That's just reality. The Pens are a contender, the Ducks aren't. So, the next suggestion is you overpay him. Even if you did over offer him, there's still no evidence that he would sign with Anaheim. But, let's say he did. Where would that leave the team? How many Norris Trophies has he won? Thats right, none. Yet, you wanna pay him like he has. So, if you pay Martin 7 or 8 million, the Ducks would have to sacrifice salary since they have an internal budget. So, Sutton and Mara are probably not signed and who knows how the roster would be affected for years to come. Does that make the team that much better? I don't think so. I like Paul Martin but he's not Niedermayer or Pronger. He can't singlehandedly carry a defense corps. No different than how Lubo and Lydman can't. He's a good Top 4 dman, but not the best out there. He was just the best of this UFA cycle. I don't think Martin, Lubo, Fowler, Brookbank, Sbisa and Mikkelson is any better of a top 6 than what we currently have.

Second, what would firing Bob Murray right now actually accomplish? I'm not a Murray fan, he's made many peculiar moves but getting rid of him at this instant wouldn't change the players on the ice. All it would do is mean that the Ducks have to pay salary to a guy who's sitting at home. No new GM is going to come in and change the roster. The budget doesn't allow it and not many teams are looking to trade, especially since the season just started. You would solve nothing. In reality, all that would happen is that David McNab would probably take over for the rest of the season. That's it and he's not going to be able to wave a wand and bring Sidney Crosby and Ovechkin to the Ducks. Nobody can. At the end of the season, when more GM candidates will be available and things can change, then we can talk. At least let Murray get a new coach in for a little bit and see if things improve. He's never gotten that chance. RC kept his job when he rallied the team in 09.

Finally we get to the coach. He's the only thing that hasn't changed over the years. Yet the results are getting worse each season. That's not necessarily the coach's fault, but it is his job. I see a team that still extremely undisciplined. I lay that blame on Carlyle. Getzlaf and Perry are still taking dumb penalties. That was fine when you had Pronger, the Niedermayers, Beauchemin, Moen, and Pahlsson to bail you out but they aren't there anymore. These players don't play smart, period. Someone has to teach them cause it's clear to me that RC hasn't. Getz can't be the captain when he hasn't figured out how to play smart. He doesn't show that in how he plays. I put that on the only NHL coach he's ever had. I'm not even going to get into systems but getting outshot 58-14 is ridiculous. i don't care how bad your team is, there's no way thats acceptable. There is still some talent on this team but it's clearly being under utilized when you can't even get 20 shots on goal a night and you struggle to hold the opposing team under 50. This is not an expansion team. And even worse, is the fact that the Ducks have had a slow start virtually every single season under RC. That's a disturbing trend. Trying to dig out of a hole year after year clearly shows that he doesn't prepare the team well during training camp. This is a recurring problem no matter who's been on the team. Something must be wrong there. The only constant has been the coach.

I don't dislike RC and I don't love Murray, but sometimes you need to shake things up and see if things get better. Right now, I feel like changing the coach is much more prudent than throwing out the GM. At least a new coach can make some changes on ice and use a new system, a new style and hopefully motivate a sad sack team. I'm not sure a new GM can do any of that.

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Old
10-12-2010, 02:21 PM
  #75
Sean Garrity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwd711 View Post
I have a few thoughts on this.

First off, some of you really need to get past Paul Martin. There's no evidence that he ever had any interest in signing with the Ducks. None. If you had to choose between the Ducks and 29 other teams, I'm sure the Ducks would be low on your likely destination list. That's just reality. The Pens are a contender, the Ducks aren't. So, the next suggestion is you overpay him. Even if you did over offer him, there's still no evidence that he would sign with Anaheim. But, let's say he did. Where would that leave the team? How many Norris Trophies has he won? Thats right, none. Yet, you wanna pay him like he has. So, if you pay Martin 7 or 8 million, the Ducks would have to sacrifice salary since they have an internal budget. So, Sutton and Mara are probably not signed and who knows how the roster would be affected for years to come. Does that make the team that much better? I don't think so. I like Paul Martin but he's not Niedermayer or Pronger. He can't singlehandedly carry a defense corps. No different than how Lubo and Lydman can't. He's a good Top 4 dman, but not the best out there. He was just the best of this UFA cycle. I don't think Martin, Lubo, Fowler, Brookbank, Sbisa and Mikkelson is any better of a top 6 than what we currently have.

Second, what would firing Bob Murray right now actually accomplish? I'm not a Murray fan, he's made many peculiar moves but getting rid of him at this instant wouldn't change the players on the ice. All it would do is mean that the Ducks have to pay salary to a guy who's sitting at home. No new GM is going to come in and change the roster. The budget doesn't allow it and not many teams are looking to trade, especially since the season just started. You would solve nothing. In reality, all that would happen is that David McNab would probably take over for the rest of the season. That's it and he's not going to be able to wave a wand and bring Sidney Crosby and Ovechkin to the Ducks. Nobody can. At the end of the season, when more GM candidates will be available and things can change, then we can talk. At least let Murray get a new coach in for a little bit and see if things improve. He's never gotten that chance. RC kept his job when he rallied the team in 09.

Finally we get to the coach. He's the only thing that hasn't changed over the years. Yet the results are getting worse each season. That's not necessarily the coach's fault, but it is his job. I see a team that still extremely undisciplined. I lay that blame on Carlyle. Getzlaf and Perry are still taking dumb penalties. That was fine when you had Pronger, the Niedermayers, Beauchemin, Moen, and Pahlsson to bail you out but they aren't there anymore. These players don't play smart, period. Someone has to teach them cause it's clear to me that RC hasn't. Getz can't be the captain when he hasn't figured out how to play smart. He doesn't show that in how he plays. I put that on the only NHL coach he's ever had. I'm not even going to get into systems but getting outshot 58-14 is ridiculous. i don't care how bad your team is, there's no way thats acceptable. There is still some talent on this team but it's clearly being under utilized when you can't even get 20 shots on goal a night and you struggle to hold the opposing team under 50. This is not an expansion team. And even worse, is the fact that the Ducks have had a slow start virtually every single season under RC. That's a disturbing trend. Trying to dig out of a hole year after year clearly shows that he doesn't prepare the team well during training camp. This is a recurring problem no matter who's been on the team. Something must be wrong there. The only constant has been the coach.

I don't dislike RC and I don't love Murray, but sometimes you need to shake things up and see if things get better. Right now, I feel like changing the coach is much more prudent than throwing out the GM. At least a new coach can make some changes on ice and use a new system, a new style and hopefully motivate a sad sack team. I'm not sure a new GM can do any of that.
You think wrong. The rest of your post makes sense and has valid arguments, but this team's defense would be much better if we had Martin.

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