Since when is the Flyers Stanley Cup window rapidly shrinking? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are talking about a team with Giroux, Richards, Carter, Leino, JVR, Coburn, Carle, and Bobrovsky, right? I'll give you that we don't have a true #1 defenseman in line after Pronger, but like we've seen numerous times, elite defense can be acquired through trade.
Since when is the Flyers Stanley Cup window rapidly shrinking? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are talking about a team with Giroux, Richards, Carter, Leino, JVR, Coburn, Carle, and Bobrovsky, right? I'll give you that we don't have a true #1 defenseman in line after Pronger, but like we've seen numerous times, elite defense can be acquired through trade.
Our prospect pool is pretty bare so trading to fill the eventual gaps Pronger/Timonen/Briere will leave is not likely without further mortgaging the future. With the young guys we do have, we'll be good, but we won't be true contenders forever.
Our prospect pool is pretty bare so trading to fill the eventual gaps Pronger/Timonen/Briere will leave is not likely without further mortgaging the future. With the young guys we do have, we'll be good, but we won't be true contenders forever.
Fingers crossed we get a first round pick this year.
And, Coburn may be our last hope for a legitimate #1. I'm crossing Meszaros off this list, but sooner rather than later, Coburn - Meszaros looks to be a really strong pairing.
Carle's been looking really good this year as well, even without Pronger.
Add Gustafsson, Lehtivuori, Marshall, Bourdon, Bartulis, and maybe Bertilsson if his injury parade stops, we might have a strong defense short of one really good piece.
Forward wise, Carter, Richards, Giroux, and vanRiemsdyk are the core.
Briere, Leino, Zherdev, and Hartnell are the spare parts thrown in to help us get over the hump for this year at the least. That's what I'm more worried about replacing rather than our core. We need to keep plugging those holes. It'd be nice if Maroon learned how to skate or Nodl developed some offense. Testwuide and Holmstrom are looking good as are Wellwood and others, but they're not the answers we need for secondary scoring depth.
Goaltending, we know what the cards hold: Bobrovsky, Eriksson, Riopel.
Last edited by Chris Shafer: 10-12-2010 at 08:29 PM.
I love the sky is falling mentality of this thread. I remember last year during the Flyers dry spell someone asked if the Flyers were a Stanley Cup contender, I said they were because of the talent on the roster...I was then ripped by almost everyone on the board. Things aren't always as bad as they're perceived around here guys. The Flyers need one elite defenseman post-Pronger to extend the window.
I love the sky is falling mentality of this thread. I remember last year during the Flyers dry spell someone asked if the Flyers were a Stanley Cup contender, I said they were because of the talent on the roster...I was then ripped by almost everyone on the board. Things aren't always as bad as they're perceived around here guys. The Flyers need one elite defenseman post-Pronger to extend the window.
They need one sooner than that. He isn't playing til 43, that's just a joke. And, even if he makes it a season or so past 40, he won't be a top pairing guy anymore. By that time Kimmo will be gone as well. I've accepted that this team mortgaged its future for a 3 or so year run at the Cup.
Fingers crossed we get a first round pick this year.
And, Coburn may be our last hope for a legitimate #1. I'm crossing Meszaros off this list, but sooner rather than later, Coburn - Meszaros looks to be a really strong pairing.
Carle's been looking really good this year as well, even without Pronger.
Add Gustafsson, Lehtivuori, Marshall, Bourdon, Bartulis, and maybe Bertilsson if his injury parade stops, we might have a strong defense short of one really good piece.
Forward wise, Carter, Richards, Giroux, and vanRiemsdyk are the core.
Briere, Leino, Zherdev, and Hartnell are the spare parts thrown in to help us get over the hump for this year at the least. That's what I'm more worried about replacing rather than our core. We need to keep plugging those holes. It'd be nice if Maroon learned how to skate or Nodl developed some offense. Testwuide and Holmstrom are looking good as are Wellwood and others, but they're not the answers we need for secondary scoring depth.
Goaltending, we know what the cards hold: Bobrovsky, Eriksson, Riopel.
I love all of our players as a Flyers fan, but realistically, outside of the core, a lot of our kids are not sure NHL players. I'm also a little nervous about this coming offseason (I realize it's retardedly early to make such a conclusion). Homer had a relatively simple task list this summer and he went crazy. With Giroux and Carter needing to be resigned, I shudder to think what happens next summer.
Fingers crossed we get a first round pick this year.
And, Coburn may be our last hope for a legitimate #1. I'm crossing Meszaros off this list, but sooner rather than later, Coburn - Meszaros looks to be a really strong pairing.
Carle's been looking really good this year as well, even without Pronger.
Add Gustafsson, Lehtivuori, Marshall, Bourdon, Bartulis, and maybe Bertilsson if his injury parade stops, we might have a strong defense short of one really good piece.
Forward wise, Carter, Richards, Giroux, and vanRiemsdyk are the core.
Briere, Leino, Zherdev, and Hartnell are the spare parts thrown in to help us get over the hump for this year at the least. That's what I'm more worried about replacing rather than our core. We need to keep plugging those holes. It'd be nice if Maroon learned how to skate or Nodl developed some offense. Testwuide and Holmstrom are looking good as are Wellwood and others, but they're not the answers we need for secondary scoring depth.
Goaltending, we know what the cards hold: Bobrovsky, Eriksson, Riopel.
some of those guys project to be at best a #4 dman, more than likely if they even make it bottom pairing/depth guys. Dont see it as really being that strong. You need 2 of those guys to pan out and become nhl regulars.
The significant element in the medium to long term fate of this team that's not been mentioned so far is free agency. As players like Timonen and Briere come off the books – to be sanguine – that's cash and cap space that can be used to add needed players. Plus, the market has been driven down by GMs not named Paul Holmgren, so every cap buck can theoretically be expected to go a little farther for the non-elite FAs.
The significant element in the medium to long term fate of this team that's not been mentioned so far is free agency. As players like Timonen and Briere come off the books – to be sanguine – that's cash and cap space that can be used to add needed players. Plus, the market has been driven down by GMs not named Paul Holmgren, so every cap buck can theoretically be expected to go a little farther for the non-elite FAs.
The future is still (relatively) rosy.
Briere doesn't come off the books until 2015. Timonen in 2013. Pronger in 2018.
Toward the end of each of those contracts, the player in question will almost certainly not be playing at a level close to their cap hit. And that's something that was known when they signed those contracts. It's also something that is perfectly fine assuming that the team wins a Stanley Cup. Obviously, a large assumption but its an achievable goal.
But at no point as Homer demonstrated the ability to be a savvy GM and work around some of these cap-burdening contracts. There will likely be some lean years ahead. Which, again, is not something that wasn't predicted when these contracts were doled out. But Briere at 35, Kimmo at 38, and Pronger at 39 in the same season is going to mean 17.6M+ of salary not equaling 17.6M+ of production.
With Carter, Giroux, Leino, Zherdev, and JVR all needing new deals in the next two seasons, the team simply won't have the cap room to make any major deals in free agency. And, obviously, we have a GM who doesn't have a very strong ability to manage the salary cap.
Briere doesn't come off the books until 2015. Timonen in 2013. Pronger in 2018.
Toward the end of each of those contracts, the player in question will almost certainly not be playing at a level close to their cap hit. And that's something that was known when they signed those contracts. It's also something that is perfectly fine assuming that the team wins a Stanley Cup. Obviously, a large assumption but its an achievable goal.
But at no point as Homer demonstrated the ability to be a savvy GM and work around some of these cap-burdening contracts. There will likely be some lean years ahead. Which, again, is not something that wasn't predicted when these contracts were doled out. But Briere at 35, Kimmo at 38, and Pronger at 39 in the same season is going to mean 17.6M+ of salary not equaling 17.6M+ of production.
With Carter, Giroux, Leino, Zherdev, and JVR all needing new deals in the next two seasons, the team simply won't have the cap room to make any major deals in free agency. And, obviously, we have a GM who doesn't have a very strong ability to manage the salary cap.
I'm going to bank on Briere being shipped out by the 2013-14 season, when his salary is 3mil then 2mil. Teams looking to reach the cap minimum and make a profit will get a good bang for their buck. Of course Briere has to waive his NMC.
Thanks for your reply, Valhoun. Even if Brière and Timonen aren't moved, I think the team can still excel with them not leading the team. As previously indicated, there is some good depth at D, so Coburn / Carle / Meszaros / XXXXX can theoretically handle the top 4, with the elders gracefully moving down towards retirement. Brière is already in a fight with 3 young very good players for the C position. So, their talent level is remediable adequately, if not perfectly. You make a good point about the cap space, and I rue banking on Paul Holmgren to make a great trade.
Regarding resignings, I don't see Zherdev back next year; he will either play or price himself off the team. Carter, Giroux and JVR will indeed be tricky to get under the cap, and we'll see how the Leino situation plays itself out. I could see him as a cap casualty.
Just because we don't have prospects to replace guys when they are declining/retire doesn't mean that we can't. Free agency is king in the NHL nowadays anyway.
Timonen's money comes off the books the same year that Briere's contract starts to look REALLY attractive for a Southern team (high cap hit, low salary). That 12+ mil would be more than enough for an ENTIRE top pairing D.
Btw, Pronger's game is predicated on positioning and stick work, not speed. Anyone who doesn't see him (barring a major injury) playing to 40 is a pessimist, imo. I fully expect him to be our best defender at age 40 as well. This is a generational talent we are talking about.
Just because we don't have prospects to replace guys when they are declining/retire doesn't mean that we can't. Free agency is king in the NHL nowadays anyway.
Timonen's money comes off the books the same year that Briere's contract starts to look REALLY attractive for a Southern team (high cap hit, low salary). That 12+ mil would be more than enough for an ENTIRE top pairing D.
Btw, Pronger's game is predicated on positioning and stick work, not speed. Anyone who doesn't see him (barring a major injury) playing to 40 is a pessimist, imo. I fully expect him to be our best defender at age 40 as well. This is a generational talent we are talking about.
Pronger may play to 40, but he is on the books until 43.
Also, we have yet to see ANY player shipped off to a poor team so that they could reach the salary floor. And there is no evidence that it will happen with Briere. Who would waive their NMC to rot on a horrible team? If anything, aging players fight to get onto a contender for one last shot at the Cup. Briere, for obvious reasons, isn't going to want to live even farther from his children.
Homer needs to be preparing for Briere, Pronger, et al. to be on the salary cap for the entire length of their salaries. If he is expecting miracles then he is even worse at managing the cap than we already suspect.
At any rate, talk of 2013 and 2014 is very premature. These next two upcoming offseasons are going to be the most rigid in terms of the cap. The economy still sucks and Homer has really tied his hands with some of the insane moves/contracts of this past summer. Giroux and Carter may well be looking at huge raises. At least one is going to be in for a big payday.
