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(Part 2) GDT: #3: Avalanche @ Flyers - Monday, Oct. 11, 2010 -

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Old
10-12-2010, 06:08 PM
  #51
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's been made known they have something in store for Thursday, but it's also an insult to the fans that they exclude Gagne from at the very least, what happened in the Boston series. The pre-game video edited so that it made it look like Hartnell's goal tied the game, and Briere's goal was the game-winner in Game 7. I know it's a "promotion" thing, but we're not stupid, we all know what happened.
And as described, that is spurious on their part especially if the team avoids any homage Thursday. Should they do something Thursday, perhaps they preferred to acknowledge the goal with Gagne in the house. That said, the goal by Gagne should have been part of the ceremony last night. It is why someone should be quoted regarding the oversight or omission.

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Old
10-12-2010, 06:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Agreed. I have a thing for cute looking chicks and a huge thing for Russians (borderline fetish actually).

So give me that anytime.
Is it a Big McLargeHuge thing, or just a huge thing?

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10-12-2010, 06:20 PM
  #53
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That twitter "discussion" was getting pretty heated! There is no excuse for them to not include at least 2 of Gags' goals against Boston, the game 4 overtime goal started it and the game 7 gwg finished it. I doubt the Hawks would have omitted Byfuglien, Versteeg etc. from their video montages to celebrate the win.

If anyone wants to write to the Flyers about this, here is the link:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=35627

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10-12-2010, 06:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
That twitter "discussion" was getting pretty heated! There is no excuse for them to not include at least 2 of Gags' goals against Boston, the game 4 overtime goal started it and the game 7 gwg finished it. I doubt the Hawks would have omitted Byfuglien, Versteeg etc. from their video montages to celebrate the win.
RT @The1Tab: @BroadStHockey @DNFlyers @sbaicker FYI - Byfuglien, Niemi & Versteeg were prominent in the Blackhawks video before their banner went up

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10-12-2010, 06:32 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I think the West is pretty weak this year, especially when compared to the East. For that reason I'd be surprised if the Cup winner doesn't come from the East. Also, if you look at the Cup winners the last 10 or so years, the East and West generally take turns winning it all. Or at least split the Cup wins 50/50.



Yeah, I think they're overrated just for the mere fact that they won the Cup last year. I don't consider them contenders and I'd be surprised if they were a top team if they were in the East (this year).

Their depth is atrocious for obvious reasons, I don't like downgrading from Niemi to Turco, and the long Cup run should only make them more tired (if anything).



Datsyuk and Zetterberg are at perfectly fine ages at 32 and 30 respectively. Hudler is 28 while Filppula and Howard are both 26. Rafalski is only a year older then Pronger.

Their core is still young and still effective for the most part. Do I think they're a little older then I would like (well, if I were a Detroit fan?), but they've proven to be the most well-managed and most consistent franchise for a long while now. No reason to doubt them just because they're a bit on the older side. Kind of a harsh thing to say coming from a fan of a team that relies on two 35+ year old d-men.

With all that said, I don't think they're nearly as strong as previous years and I doubt they win the Cup. I'm kind of on the fence as to whether they're a contender or not.



"Mental toughness" is something as intangible and pointless to bring up (most of the time) as things like "locker room presence" (I hear Walker has great locker room presence).

I understand what you mean though. Even if their club were as good as it was in previous years, which I don't think it is because their defense is bad as is their goaltending, I still wouldn't consider them contenders. As it is, they're just as overrated as Chicago I believe and far from contenders. I mean, if what they've had in the past wasn't good enough and they're only worse now then what is there to suggest that they're good enough now?



Sure, but that doesn't mean much. Like I said before, their forward group is tough, young, and energetic, but it lacks any true top-end talent at the moment and is nowhere good enough to be a contender. Look at their top scorers last year. They had no 30 goal guys last year, no 80 point players, and beyond the big three of Duchene, Stastny, and Stewart our scoring is pretty pitiful. Especially with Mueller out. Milan Hejduk was our 4th highest scorer last year despite missing 26 games and being ancient.

Youth can only get you so far. It's not like any of these players are guaranteed to progress either. We're just as prone to sophomore slumps, injuries, and disappointing seasons in general as any other team.

Not to mention that our best offensive talent on the blue-line is fricking Liles (who is currently leading the team in points). That's just sad.



They have a starter with one great season under his belt (and I think he'll continue to be great), but I find it hard to believe that he'll surpass or even match his effort last year (and look how far even that effort got them last year, 8th place and 1st round exit). I wouldn't be surprised if were to fall back to earth for whatever reason (being tired from last season, last season being a fluke, w/e) and our backup goalie as well as our depth in the farm system at goalie is pretty bad.



Yeah, like I said before, I think your definition of contender really varies from what my definition is. I don't see how a team can be considered a contender if you don't think there's a good possibility that they'll win the Cup. Seems kind of contradictory to me.

Besides, like I said before, go ask any (other) Avs fan and you'll find out that most of us would be happy to just make the playoffs, let alone win the Cup.

As for who the favorites out West are, like I said before, I think the West is pretty weak this year. Especially compared to the last few years.

Vancouver and possibly Detroit are definitely the favorites and at least one of the two (Vancouver) are contenders. I think St. Louis has great potential as a dark-horse or to god on a Cinderella run. I think Phoenix is really underrated and I think they're a very sound, tough team to play against that should make the playoffs, but I extremely doubt they win the Cup so I don't consider them contenders. LA has a really strong team, but I'm not sold on them yet. I can see why someone would consider them a contender though.

So, out West, I only see two or three contenders at best.

The fact of the matter is that nobody has a very good chance at winning the Cup. It's a long season. Anything can go wrong, and when you get into the playoffs, anyone can go far.


Would you have called Montreal contenders last season? Would you have called Pitts and Washington contenders instead?

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Old
10-12-2010, 07:42 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
She's not really that hot, but she's cute and speaks Russian.

Done and done.

(I believe my weakness for the accent has been documented in some other thread. Maybe the Bobrovsky trial by fire thread, not sure.)
French accent. Game over.

Sorry to be cliche (get it), but it's true.

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Old
10-12-2010, 07:53 PM
  #57
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I wrote to the organization at the above link to let them know it would be disgraceful, embarassing, and insulting to the fans to not honor Gagne in the coming game. not that it will accomplish anything, but it felt nice.

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Old
10-12-2010, 07:54 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
The fact of the matter is that nobody has a very good chance at winning the Cup.
Depends on what you mean, but obviously. There's obvious favorites though and things called "safe bets".

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It's a long season. Anything can go wrong,
Yeah, as evidence by our regular season last year. The cream almost always ends up rising to the top though, in the end.

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and when you get into the playoffs, anyone can go far.
Define "far".

Of course there's Cinderella runs every once in a while, but you can't bank on that and they very rarely ever win the Cup. Just look up playoff stats if you want. The vast majority of the time a top seed wins it (and, IIRC, a conference winner in the regular season wins the Cup roughly a quarter of the time). I don't even know if an 8th seed has ever won the Cup. The top regular season teams are usually the top post-season teams. There's exceptions, of course, but the vast majority of the time a top regular season team wins the Cup.

Quote:
Would you have called Montreal contenders last season?
No and they obviously weren't considering it took them 14 games to get to the 3rd round and get destroyed in that round.

Quote:
Would you have called Pitts and Washington contenders instead?
Yeah. And they were at the time, even if they failed in the end.

Look at the SCF. A top regular season team that was widely considered a contender throughout the regular season won the Cup and a team that was expected to be a contender and Cup favorite during and before the regular season ended up being the runner-up (albeit the fact that their regular season ended up being disappointing).

To consider the Avs or Habs contenders you might as well consider every single playoff team a contender. Which means that literally more then half the league are contenders. Which doesn't make sense.

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Old
10-12-2010, 08:18 PM
  #59
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If you want further proof that making the playoffs as a lower seed basically means jack ****:

http://fans.mapleleafs.nhl.com/topic...ie.html?page=1

I know that's not exactly an official source and that he didn't provide any links, but that seems like the numbers that I remember. Those numbers demonstrate that, if you're not a top seed (meaning, don't have home-ice), you can just about forget winning the Cup. The only low seed that has ever won the Cup, IIRC, is 5th and that's only happened a few times.

On Cinderella teams:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindere...%29#Ice_hockey

So, yes, there's Cinderella runs every once in a blue-moon, but in the end they almost always fall short of the ultimate prize. All of the six teams listed there in that article as Cinderella teams (including us last year) didn't win the Cup.

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Old
10-12-2010, 09:08 PM
  #60
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What is with the Avs and shorthanded goals? They let in another tonight and essentially let in two last night.

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10-12-2010, 09:23 PM
  #61
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What is with the Avs and shorthanded goals? They let in another tonight and essentially let in two last night.
They may well have the worst PP in the league.

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10-12-2010, 09:28 PM
  #62
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They may well have the worst PP in the league.
Can't really blame them. Stems from a severe lack of talent on the blue-line, especially on the offensive side of things.

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Old
10-12-2010, 09:30 PM
  #63
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The Avalanche are coming down. What they did last year was nice for them, but I think their success was a product of the laundry list of teams behind them that underachieved (Calgary, Columbus, St. Louis).

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10-12-2010, 09:39 PM
  #64
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Nah, I think the Avs are good.

1) Stastny-Duchene-O'Reilly is a really, really nice center trio.
2) Some nice wingers, Stewart, Galliardi, Mueller, Hejduk are good and I think Yip could develop into an Upshall type player, he has some good talent.
3) Underrated D group, nobody really jumps out at you, but a lot of guys who can log 20 solid minutes as opposed to the feast/famine setup a lot of other teams have.
4) Good goaltending.
5) Well coached.

I like them to make the POs again tbh, they gave us a very tough fight in our game and coming back against the Wings in their barn is no picnic.

EDIT: Also, of the teams you mentioned, who is going to leapfrog them? Columbus? No. Calgary? Hell no. St Louis? Possible. STL is interesting to me. They have a strong team in a lot of areas, but when push comes to shove, where's the top-end scoring talent? I don't think they have a scoring forward anywhere close to Stastny or Duchene.

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Old
10-12-2010, 09:49 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The Avalanche are coming down. What they did last year was nice for them, but I think their success was a product of the laundry list of teams behind them that underachieved (Calgary, Columbus, St. Louis).
Kind of. What they achieved last year wasn't a fluke. They're a very good team in the making. Just not there yet is all. The blue-line has to be revamped, some quality forward depth should be added, and the top six needs to continue to develop before they're a threat for anything.

So saying that they're "coming down" sounds a bit harsh. However, yeah, I doubt they're anymore then a fringe playoff team.

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10-12-2010, 10:10 PM
  #66
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Nah, I think the Avs are good.

1) Stastny-Duchene-O'Reilly is a really, really nice center trio.
2) Some nice wingers, Stewart, Galliardi, Mueller, Hejduk are good and I think Yip could develop into an Upshall type player, he has some good talent.
3) Underrated D group, nobody really jumps out at you, but a lot of guys who can log 20 solid minutes as opposed to the feast/famine setup a lot of other teams have.
4) Good goaltending.
5) Well coached.

I like them to make the POs again tbh, they gave us a very tough fight in our game and coming back against the Wings in their barn is no picnic.

EDIT: Also, of the teams you mentioned, who is going to leapfrog them? Columbus? No. Calgary? Hell no. St Louis? Possible. STL is interesting to me. They have a strong team in a lot of areas, but when push comes to shove, where's the top-end scoring talent? I don't think they have a scoring forward anywhere close to Stastny or Duchene.
Don't know why Calgary can't leap frog them. They almost caught them last year. I have the Blues over them too.

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10-12-2010, 10:40 PM
  #67
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Don't know why Calgary can't leap frog them. They almost caught them last year. I have the Blues over them too.
Calgary is nothing special whatsoever.

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10-12-2010, 10:42 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I think the West is pretty weak this year, especially when compared to the East. For that reason I'd be surprised if the Cup winner doesn't come from the East. Also, if you look at the Cup winners the last 10 or so years, the East and West generally take turns winning it all. Or at least split the Cup wins 50/50.
...and that's why they're contenders. If you can see them doing damage in the playoffs, then they're contenders. I could easily see the Avs doing damage this year in that field of teams.

It's certainly not "ridiculous," especially this early on when they're a 95 point team from a year ago with a ton of youth.

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10-12-2010, 10:44 PM
  #69
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Calgary is nothing special whatsoever.

They're not, but they can still make the playoffs. Although I had the Ducks in too, and that already looks like that's not happening.

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10-13-2010, 01:18 AM
  #70
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...and that's why they're contenders. If you can see them doing damage in the playoffs, then they're contenders. I could easily see the Avs doing damage this year in that field of teams.

It's certainly not "ridiculous," especially this early on when they're a 95 point team from a year ago with a ton of youth.
I already highlighted reasons why I'd be happy just for them to make the playoffs and I've already gone over what a contender is to me so this seems like a circular argument at this point.

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10-13-2010, 01:29 AM
  #71
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Colorado is much better then Calgary and Anaheim.

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10-13-2010, 05:36 AM
  #72
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Anaheim has great forwards and a good goalie, but no Defense.

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10-13-2010, 05:46 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
They may well have the worst PP in the league.
They're having trouble moving the puck and Detroit's attacking PK gave them fits all game. When the Flyers played aggressive on the PK, they also struggled. That blueline is just bad at working the points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The Avalanche are coming down. What they did last year was nice for them, but I think their success was a product of the laundry list of teams behind them that underachieved (Calgary, Columbus, St. Louis).
I don't disagree but I think a lot of their success came from them overachieving. I'm not a big fan of Anderson and I think he just had a hot year. I love the Avs so hopefully last year wasn't a fluke, but with such a young roster, there's going to be a lot of fluctuation.

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10-13-2010, 05:51 AM
  #74
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Avs are just a bubble team. They could make, they might not.

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10-13-2010, 05:55 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Avs are just a bubble team. They could make, they might not.
I think all they need is time to gel and some solid veteran leaders. Foote is a beast but if David Jones is considered a veteran leader...

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