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Old
10-12-2010, 08:10 AM
  #51
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carle, mez, and coburn all played great. OD pleased me a couple times as well

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10-12-2010, 08:50 AM
  #52
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It was a good game all around. I thought Coburn was our best d.

As for Meszaros. He's a solid player, but a youngish dman who is yet able to be the go-to-guy on his own pairing with a 4M cap hit wasn't exactly what this team lacked. I like him as a player though, even if I wish we had gone another route this past off season.

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10-12-2010, 09:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
it really has little to do with Mezaros himself. Teh terrible way the cap is managed is the issue. Then when you look at him being paid 4mm, that is brutal. He hasnt lived up to his ocntract since he signed it. It doesnt make him a bad dman just very overpaid by 50%.
This is the problem.

I think the team is better off this year than last year, but managing the salary cap is like playing pool - you always want to set yourself up for the next shot/season. Is Mezaros an upgrade from last year? Sure. Could we have gone a different route without using up such a huge cap hit? Very likely. Could we have managed to keep Gagne and, if need be, trade him at the trade deadline when his value is at its highest? Yes. The rationale for trading Gagne was "Well, we got to give up salary" rather than "How can we improve our team" which is how every trade should be conceived. Trading players for the sole purpose of shedding salary indicates bad cap management.

What happens next year when we need to resign Carter and Giroux? I would rather have either of those two over Mezaros, but we are stuck with Mez for the next few years with that cap hit. Was acquiring Mezaros worth losing Carter and Giroux? I don't think so.

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10-12-2010, 09:54 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
This is the problem.

I think the team is better off this year than last year, but managing the salary cap is like playing pool - you always want to set yourself up for the next shot/season. Is Mezaros an upgrade from last year? Sure. Could we have gone a different route without using up such a huge cap hit? Very likely. Could we have managed to keep Gagne and, if need be, trade him at the trade deadline when his value is at its highest? Yes. The rationale for trading Gagne was "Well, we got to give up salary" rather than "How can we improve our team" which is how every trade should be conceived. Trading players for the sole purpose of shedding salary indicates bad cap management.

What happens next year when we need to resign Carter and Giroux? I would rather have either of those two over Mezaros, but we are stuck with Mez for the next few years with that cap hit. Was acquiring Mezaros worth losing Carter and Giroux? I don't think so.


http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=24

Please reference that link. There is little to no chance that we are going to miss out on signing Carter and Giroux. We have 11 mil to spend next year on players. The way things are going, Boucher and O'Donnell are gone. Unless he picks it up a lot, Zherdev too. Most likely Carcillo as well. That leaves us 11 mil to sign 4 players, Carter, Giroux, Powe, and Leino. Add another 1.2 mil if we leave Laperierre on LTIR.
That's a little over 12 mil.

So, you don't think we can get those 4 players signed with potentially 12 mil? Here's the way that I see it. Carter gets a deal worth about 6 million since Richards only has a cap hit of 5.75. Giroux gets about 3.5 mil hit. Give Powe about 850k. This leaves about 1.65 mil or so left for Leino. Of course, that number could drastically rise depending upon how he plays this year.

This is obviously all my opinion and I'm not happy about Meszaros's cap hit either. But, if you break it down like this, we are still not in that bad of shape at all. Especially if Bob keeps it going like he is.

The year after next though it will get very interesting. JVR, Coburn, and Carle will all need to be re-signed. This gives us a window of about two year to win the cup. This year and next. The cap era makes it difficult.

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10-12-2010, 10:05 AM
  #55
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Gagne's been gone for a few months now. People need to get over their pining for him. Meszaros is going to be an excellent defender. It wasn't his fault that Tampa Bay was run by a group of idiots and he was thrown to the wolves as a result. Now that there's a competent staff of coaches here, we'll see the Meszaros we all saw his first few years in Ottawa.

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10-12-2010, 10:18 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Gagne's been gone for a few months now. People need to get over their pining for him. Meszaros is going to be an excellent defender. It wasn't his fault that Tampa Bay was run by a group of idiots and he was thrown to the wolves as a result. Now that there's a competent staff of coaches here, we'll see the Meszaros we all saw his first few years in Ottawa.
People need to realize that a lot of people (myself being one of them) are NOT doubting Meszaros is going to be good. Not at all. I think he's going to be quite good for us. Meszaros the player has NOTHING to do with my distaste for the move.

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10-12-2010, 10:23 AM
  #57
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That D looked really good against a very good young team. If not for that turnover by our hairy friend and lets face it a bit of a weak goal by Bobrovsky we did not give up a lot of scoring chances. There were a few nice saves but i counted around 5 legit scoring chances.

Lavi needs to get Zherdev and Hartnell going and make some changes about Carcillo (I think he did that already).

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10-12-2010, 12:00 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=24

Please reference that link. There is little to no chance that we are going to miss out on signing Carter and Giroux. We have 11 mil to spend next year on players. The way things are going, Boucher and O'Donnell are gone. Unless he picks it up a lot, Zherdev too. Most likely Carcillo as well. That leaves us 11 mil to sign 4 players, Carter, Giroux, Powe, and Leino. Add another 1.2 mil if we leave Laperierre on LTIR.
That's a little over 12 mil.

So, you don't think we can get those 4 players signed with potentially 12 mil? Here's the way that I see it. Carter gets a deal worth about 6 million since Richards only has a cap hit of 5.75. Giroux gets about 3.5 mil hit. Give Powe about 850k. This leaves about 1.65 mil or so left for Leino. Of course, that number could drastically rise depending upon how he plays this year.

This is obviously all my opinion and I'm not happy about Meszaros's cap hit either. But, if you break it down like this, we are still not in that bad of shape at all. Especially if Bob keeps it going like he is.

The year after next though it will get very interesting. JVR, Coburn, and Carle will all need to be re-signed. This gives us a window of about two year to win the cup. This year and next. The cap era makes it difficult.
I did not think that the cap situation was that good next year! Thank you for that link. I do agree with you, however, that it sets us up poorly for the next year, with JVR. But, regarding Coburn, Mezaros could then replace him in the top 4, and Coburn could be let go.

Thank you again for the link and clarification/chastisement!

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10-12-2010, 12:03 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Gagne's been gone for a few months now. People need to get over their pining for him. Meszaros is going to be an excellent defender. It wasn't his fault that Tampa Bay was run by a group of idiots and he was thrown to the wolves as a result. Now that there's a competent staff of coaches here, we'll see the Meszaros we all saw his first few years in Ottawa.
I do not pine for Gagne, but for the moronic return we got for him. A 4th rounder and a salary dump? Granted, Gagne may never play a full season again, but cap mismanagement by Holmgren forced him to make that idiotic deal. I do not mind the departure of Gagne as much as Holmgren's way of handling the signings and the return he got. The return we got for Gagne and Parent demonstrate the lack of foresight in the GM.

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10-12-2010, 12:18 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=24

Please reference that link. There is little to no chance that we are going to miss out on signing Carter and Giroux. We have 11 mil to spend next year on players. The way things are going, Boucher and O'Donnell are gone. Unless he picks it up a lot, Zherdev too. Most likely Carcillo as well. That leaves us 11 mil to sign 4 players, Carter, Giroux, Powe, and Leino. Add another 1.2 mil if we leave Laperierre on LTIR.
That's a little over 12 mil.

So, you don't think we can get those 4 players signed with potentially 12 mil? Here's the way that I see it. Carter gets a deal worth about 6 million since Richards only has a cap hit of 5.75. Giroux gets about 3.5 mil hit. Give Powe about 850k. This leaves about 1.65 mil or so left for Leino. Of course, that number could drastically rise depending upon how he plays this year.

This is obviously all my opinion and I'm not happy about Meszaros's cap hit either. But, if you break it down like this, we are still not in that bad of shape at all. Especially if Bob keeps it going like he is.

The year after next though it will get very interesting. JVR, Coburn, and Carle will all need to be re-signed. This gives us a window of about two year to win the cup. This year and next. The cap era makes it difficult.
Are you assuming the $12m is the cap space we have with all of those departing players off the books? If so, there is a big problem with this assessment because the guys you are letting go have to be replaced to have a full roster. You don't get the full $12m to play with on 4 guys if you're talking about resigning 4 and then replacing the 2-3 that are walking and need to be replaced.

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10-12-2010, 12:30 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Are you assuming the $12m is the cap space we have with all of those departing players off the books? If so, there is a big problem with this assessment because the guys you are letting go have to be replaced to have a full roster. You don't get the full $12m to play with on 4 guys if you're talking about resigning 4 and then replacing the 2-3 that are walking and need to be replaced.

Good point. Well I suppose we would call up some cheap guys from the Phantoms. I also miscalculated the cap space available. It looks like we would have about 14 mil to sign players if we left Lappy on LTIR. We did it with Rathje so I don't see why we couldn't do it again.

In any case my point was that we wouldn't be losing Carter and Giroux and that's still very possible. We might have to lose Leino though if we decide to keep those two.

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10-12-2010, 12:42 PM
  #62
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Good point. Well I suppose we would call up some cheap guys from the Phantoms. I also miscalculated the cap space available. It looks like we would have about 14 mil to sign players if we left Lappy on LTIR. We did it with Rathje so I don't see why we couldn't do it again.

In any case my point was that we wouldn't be losing Carter and Giroux and that's still very possible. We might have to lose Leino though if we decide to keep those two.
Hm.

Even with 14 and Lappy on LTIR, I think it's gonna be trickier than you're anticipating.

Carter could easily cost us 6+, Giroux could be 3.5-4. Filling out the rest of the roster with 5 mill or so may not be the easiest thing in the world, especially if more than just our RFAs are walking.

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10-12-2010, 02:08 PM
  #63
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Carter could easily cost us 6+, Giroux could be 3.5-4. Filling out the rest of the roster with 5 mill or so may not be the easiest thing in the world, especially if more than just our RFAs are walking.
I doubt Carter gets more than 6. His numbers are similar to Patrice Bergeron's and Patrice just signed a 3 year extension worth 5 million a year annually. Carter might get 5.5, but not much more.

I agree that Giroux will be between 3.5 and 4 million. I'm thinking more along the lines of the contract David Krejci got after his first full season in Boston. If Giroux gets a 3 year / 11.25 million deal, then that's a pretty decent contract.

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10-12-2010, 02:31 PM
  #64
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14 mil to sign 7-8 players is quite a lot. Plus the cap might go up again, so it might be 15mil.

We can say Carter + Giroux will cost around 9-10mil to keep, so 4-5mil to sign 5-6 players. I can see Gustafsson being called up by next year, and Walker being shipped out, which clears almost another mil.

We get to secure our top 6 and our deep defense, but obviously we won't be running 3 scoring lines unless we find some diamonds in the rough.

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10-13-2010, 09:32 AM
  #65
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Another article to add to the mix:

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz12FWYEOXY

Quote:
In the season's first three games, newcomer Andrej Meszaros has fit right into the Flyers' image. The sturdy 6-foot-2, 220-pounder has seven hits - including a team-high four against Colorado on Monday - and has looked more like the defenseman who once excelled in Ottawa than the one who struggled in Tampa Bay the last two years.

"When you play with good players, it's easier," he said after Tuesday's practice in Voorhees.

The Flyers have arguably the league's deepest defense. It's so deep that Meszaros, who made the NHL's rookie all-star team in 2006, is on the Flyers' third pairing, along with Sean O'Donnell.

Meszaros downplayed Thursday's meeting against his former Tampa teammates at the Wells Fargo Center.

"I'm going to know a lot more guys, but it's just going to be a normal game for me," he said. "I'll prepare the same way. The management and coaching staff all changed, so it's not like I have hard feelings for them."

Meszaros has been used in all situations and has been a big contributor on the penalty-killing unit, whose 88.2 percent success rate has helped the Flyers start the season 2-0-1.

More times than not, Meszaros has knocked forwards off the play around the net.

"He's got a lot of power in his game," coach Peter Laviolette said. "One or two strong strides and he's engaged in a battle, and I think he's done a really good job in those battles with his power. He contains people; he breaks things up. He moves things in the right direction and has enough skill to jump in on the power play."

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10-13-2010, 12:11 PM
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Another article to add to the mix:

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz12FWYEOXY
Good article, MSE. However, the below quote immediately made me think, "How Keith Jones-esque."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laviolette
he's done a really good job
I really prefer Clement alongside JJ.

Back OT, Meszaros has looked very good and can clear the porch.

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Old
10-13-2010, 02:20 PM
  #67
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Another article to add to the mix:

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz12FWYEOXY
Mez says:

Quote:
When you play with good players, it's easier.
I get the feeling he wasn't so happy with his defensive partners in Tampa.

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10-13-2010, 02:25 PM
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Mez says:



I get the feeling he wasn't so happy with his defensive partners in Tampa.
That is one of those subtly-worded things that carries an unmistakable connotation. It really jumps out at you that this guy probably would rather be a #4-5 guy on a really good team than top-pairing on a crap team.

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10-13-2010, 02:54 PM
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That is one of those subtly-worded things that carries an unmistakable connotation. It really jumps out at you that this guy probably would rather be a #4-5 guy on a really good team than top-pairing on a crap team.
Read it the way: It's better to be a #4-5 guy at this stage of his caree and be able to watch and learn from better players, than going the test lab hamster route of trial and error.

There's a chance he'll be the #2-3 guy for the Flyers after 3-5 years.

Plenty of raw potential in this fella. Be patient.

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10-13-2010, 03:19 PM
  #70
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I am psyched on this defense. I have liked the way Meszaros has played and think he has a pretty high ceiling. $4 million is a lot for a third pairing defenseman, but I think he play up to that paycheck, or at least close to it.
Really???? I thought he was terrible in the first game....OK in the last two.

I am not ready to kill him, he needs to learn a new system, but man he turns over the puck a lot....

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10-13-2010, 03:28 PM
  #71
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Really???? I thought he was terrible in the first game....OK in the last two.

I am not ready to kill him, he needs to learn a new system, but man he turns over the puck a lot....
I thought he was Bad > Okay > Quite Good in the 3 games so far.

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10-13-2010, 07:24 PM
  #72
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Read it the way: It's better to be a #4-5 guy at this stage of his caree and be able to watch and learn from better players, than going the test lab hamster route of trial and error.

There's a chance he'll be the #2-3 guy for the Flyers after 3-5 years.

Plenty of raw potential in this fella. Be patient.
Oh, I think he has potential. I am sure he thinks he is a top-4 guy even on this team right now. But I think he also probably was quite unhappy being asked to shoulder such a load on a bad team. He knows Pronger and Timonen won't be around forever.

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10-13-2010, 11:21 PM
  #73
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I do not pine for Gagne, but for the moronic return we got for him. A 4th rounder and a salary dump? Granted, Gagne may never play a full season again, but cap mismanagement by Holmgren forced him to make that idiotic deal. I do not mind the departure of Gagne as much as Holmgren's way of handling the signings and the return he got. The return we got for Gagne and Parent demonstrate the lack of foresight in the GM.
Simply not true. Gagne had to go because he chafed at the Pronger-Timonen-Briere regime that took over the team, then pushed Richards up front to be their spokesperson. Gagne was pushed out of the leadership group and had to go.

Gagne admitted he was asked to waive for the first time around June 18, the same day they got Hamhuis' rights.

Ten days after losing the Cup, they'd already decided that upgrading the D and moving Gagne was their plan, which means they'd been thinking about it for quite a while.

Getting Meszaros when Hamhuis didn't pan out had nothing to do with being 'forced' to move Gagne - that decision was taken a couple weeks earlier.

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10-14-2010, 07:30 AM
  #74
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Simply not true. Gagne had to go because he chafed at the Pronger-Timonen-Briere regime that took over the team, then pushed Richards up front to be their spokesperson. Gagne was pushed out of the leadership group and had to go.
Gagne admitted he was asked to waive for the first time around June 18, the same day they got Hamhuis' rights.

Ten days after losing the Cup, they'd already decided that upgrading the D and moving Gagne was their plan, which means they'd been thinking about it for quite a while.

Getting Meszaros when Hamhuis didn't pan out had nothing to do with being 'forced' to move Gagne - that decision was taken a couple weeks earlier.
Do you really believe this? There's not a chance Gagne was "pushed out of the leadership group". He wore an A for a reason and was huge for this team last year. Briere, Richards, and Kimmo have been leaders on this team for a few years now. This isn't just some revelation that happened this year. Pronger was added to that mix this past season.

How can you not see the correlation between Hamhuis' rights and Gagne being asked to waive? They made the decision they were going to relocate some salary to the blueline to improve the 3rd pairing. In order to do that they acquired Hamhuis' rights and decided Gagne would be the forward that was moved. He was probably the easiest to move as he is 1) a great player 2) worth his salary and 3) on an expiring contract. He was merely the logical piece to move. Ultimately, Hamhuis didn't work out, and Mesz was brought in...but the point is the same.

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10-14-2010, 07:50 AM
  #75
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Simply not true. Gagne had to go because he chafed at the Pronger-Timonen-Briere regime that took over the team, then pushed Richards up front to be their spokesperson. Gagne was pushed out of the leadership group and had to go.
Gagne admitted he was asked to waive for the first time around June 18, the same day they got Hamhuis' rights.

Ten days after losing the Cup, they'd already decided that upgrading the D and moving Gagne was their plan, which means they'd been thinking about it for quite a while.

Getting Meszaros when Hamhuis didn't pan out had nothing to do with being 'forced' to move Gagne - that decision was taken a couple weeks earlier.

Simply and completely your opinion. Why would you ever think Gagne was pushed out by the players??? This is just ridiculous. You don't think the players miss having him around or appreciate what he did in the playoffs last year? Why do people write these things?

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