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#4: Lightning @ Flyers - Thursday, Oct. 14, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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10-14-2010, 10:21 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
It's tough to keep everyone in the cap era. If we win a cup or two in the near future and then need to drop a few people I am fine with it. You can't have everyone around forever.
And an extra 5.3M would come in handy towards mitigating that. I fear that Homer is going to have to either trade a high-end talent, gut 2nd line players, or have a huge drop-off in talent in the 3rd and 4th lines.

Sure, that is something that many teams deal with and every team is going to hand at least one hole. However, Homer makes moves that exacerbate such issues and then pretends as if its normal and out of his control.

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10-14-2010, 10:30 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
And an extra 5.3M would come in handy towards mitigating that. I fear that Homer is going to have to either trade a high-end talent, gut 2nd line players, or have a huge drop-off in talent in the 3rd and 4th lines.

Sure, that is something that many teams deal with and every team is going to hand at least one hole. However, Homer makes moves that exacerbate such issues and then pretends as if its normal and out of his control.

I hear what you're saying but there's so many unknowns that are involved with this theory. IMO Meszaros is going to eventually become one of our top 4 D with someone else leaving after next season, such as Coburn. We can waive Walker and free up another 1.7 mil. Let's see how things play out before jumping to conclusions. The up and coming guys have a lot of potential too and may be able to replace some forwards for cheap.

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10-14-2010, 10:34 AM
  #78
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I hear what you're saying but there's so many unknowns that are involved with this theory. IMO Meszaros is going to eventually become one of our top 4 D with someone else leaving after next season, such as Coburn. We can waive Walker and free up another 1.7 mil. Let's see how things play out before jumping to conclusions. The up and coming guys have a lot of potential too and may be able to replace some forwards for cheap.
First, waiving Walker would mean that the team literally got no return for Gagne which is hilarious and a complete microcosm of how Homer runs the team.

Second, we have zero impact players in the system (outside of our goalie prospects), so I don't see where we'll be getting solid talent from.

Third, Mez might be in our top 4 but that doesn't mean he is a top 4. But that really isn't important right now. Right now what is important is that he is making a phenomenal amount of money to be a 3rd pairing guy. That's going to cause problems moving forward.

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10-14-2010, 10:41 AM
  #79
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First, waiving Walker would mean that the team literally got no return for Gagne which is hilarious and a complete microcosm of how Homer runs the team.

Second, we have zero impact players in the system (outside of our goalie prospects), so I don't see where we'll be getting solid talent from.

Third, Mez might be in our top 4 but that doesn't mean he is a top 4. But that really isn't important right now. Right now what is important is that he is making a phenomenal amount of money to be a 3rd pairing guy. That's going to cause problems moving forward.

If we win a cup or two I will be satisfied because to me that's all that matters. We will still have a solid core of guys regardless of if we have to trade away some stars or not. To me, the big picture is winning the cup and not what we could have on the team. Maybe we see things differently but if we win then I say Homer made all the right moves. Even if he didn't, I really don't care then.

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10-14-2010, 10:43 AM
  #80
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The impossible to understand stupidity of the Shelley contract cannot be brought up enough, IMO.

You can rationally explain to me why you feel we should be blowing that much cash on D. I disagree, but you can explain it in a rational way.

Giving three years to Shelley is completely inexplicable.

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10-14-2010, 10:44 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
If we win a cup or two I will be satisfied because to me that's all that matters. We will still have a solid core of guys regardless of if we have to trade away some stars or not. To me, the big picture is winning the cup and not what we could have on the team. Maybe we see things differently but if we win then I say Homer made all the right moves. Even if he didn't, I really don't care then.
I agree.

Which is why casting your lot prior to the year with Leighton and Boucher was indefensible.

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10-14-2010, 10:47 AM
  #82
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I agree.

Which is why casting your lot prior to the year with Leighton and Boucher was indefensible.
So far the Shelley signing has been poor but he might be useful against the heavyweights, who knows.

You lost me here regarding Leighton and Boucher. Please explain.

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10-14-2010, 10:50 AM
  #83
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Amazing job on the GDT!

Here's to a good game!

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10-14-2010, 10:54 AM
  #84
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So far the Shelley signing has been poor but he might be useful against the heavyweights, who knows.

You lost me here regarding Leighton and Boucher. Please explain.
The chances of Leighton/Boucher backstopping this team to a Stanley Cup are closer to 0% than they are to 10%, IMO.

In fact, I think it's more likely that tandem could cost us a playoff spot, than win us the Cup.

Holmgren handcuffed this team with a massive liability at the most important position from the outset... which is absolutely idiotic.

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10-14-2010, 11:06 AM
  #85
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The chances of Leighton/Boucher backstopping this team to a Stanley Cup are closer to 0% than they are to 10%, IMO.

In fact, I think it's more likely that tandem could cost us a playoff spot, than win us the Cup.

Holmgren handcuffed this team with a massive liability at the most important position from the outset... which is absolutely idiotic.

Yea, this is the common theme being a Flyers fan. Not ever picking up a solid goalie. I will say that Leighton was solid for us all season and throughout the playoffs until the finals for us. Bouch was also very good for the final game against the rangers and the first two rounds. So, if Leighton improved it's possible that we'd have a chance with our D. But now that we've got Bob in net, I like our chances even better!

Also I would like to thank you all for the intelligent discussions and prefer that we keep it that way without attacking each other. I respect all of your opinions and will only attack someone if they deserve it.

<<<<<< As you can see by looking at my arm I am a serious fan and really enjoy discussing hockey with other knowledgable fans. We are all working towards the same goal of winning it all. Let's go Flyers!!!

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10-14-2010, 11:10 AM
  #86
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Boosh getting the start tonight.

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10-14-2010, 11:10 AM
  #87
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The thing is we don't need even a solid goalie. We need a competent goalie with our roster. Which their were plenty of them out there but Homer had to go and not realize that their were more goalies out there then starting jobs. Yes he tried to sign Turco and Nabokov prior to FA but sent them low-ball offers (which isn't all that bad of a thing). But players like Ellis and Mason were still out there and we had Leighton resigned even before FA started. Oh no we might lose Leighton!?!?! Sign him now!!!!

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10-14-2010, 11:12 AM
  #88
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Yea, this is the common theme being a Flyers fan. Not ever picking up a solid goalie. I will say that Leighton was solid for us all season and throughout the playoffs until the finals for us. Bouch was also very good for the final game against the rangers and the first two rounds. So, if Leighton improved it's possible that we'd have a chance with our D. But now that we've got Bob in net, I like our chances even better!

Also I would like to thank you all for the intelligent discussions and prefer that we keep it that way without attacking each other. I respect all of your opinions and will only attack someone if they deserve it.

<<<<<< As you can see by looking at my arm I am a serious fan and really enjoy discussing hockey with other knowledgable fans. We are all working towards the same goal of winning it all. Let's go Flyers!!!

I feel the same way as you on the goalie situation. But if you told me again, that Leighton would play like last year until the finals and we were a Jeff Carter puck lifting goal on a wide open net away from a game 7 in the finals I would take it. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due, the Blackhawks had a stacked team last season and was part of the reason Leighton and every other goalie in the playoffs against them didn't play well.

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10-14-2010, 11:19 AM
  #89
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I feel the same way as you on the goalie situation. But if you told me again, that Leighton would play like last year until the finals and we were a Jeff Carter puck lifting goal on a wide open net away from a game 7 in the finals I would take it. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due, the Blackhawks had a stacked team last season and was part of the reason Leighton and every other goalie in the playoffs against them didn't play well.
Not entirely true. Leighton easily had the worst time of it.

Rinne posted a 2.68 .911
Luongo posted a 3.52 .897
Nabokov posted a 2.90 .905
Leighton posted a 3.96 .876

I mean, that isn't even close to the others. Luongo had a rough series, but was still .021 (which is a lot) ahead of Leighton in SVPCT. Rinne and Nabokov were both respectable.

Blackhawks had the better team, but Niemi was trying to give us that series and Leighton couldn't hold the fort enough to take advantage of that.

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10-14-2010, 11:23 AM
  #90
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10-14-2010, 11:35 AM
  #91
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First, waiving Walker would mean that the team literally got no return for Gagne which is hilarious and a complete microcosm of how Homer runs the team.

Second, we have zero impact players in the system (outside of our goalie prospects), so I don't see where we'll be getting solid talent from.

Third, Mez might be in our top 4 but that doesn't mean he is a top 4. But that really isn't important right now. Right now what is important is that he is making a phenomenal amount of money to be a 3rd pairing guy. That's going to cause problems moving forward.
I would rather have 1.7 mil in cap space than Walker. At least then we actually got 5.25 in cap space for Gagne.

And I think some of Bourdon/Gustafson/Marshall/Lehtivuori will at least be 3rd pairing D men

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10-14-2010, 11:47 AM
  #92
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Gagne who? Shelley is my new God. He's a stud on the ice for those couple of minutes a game.

Really though can't wait for tonight. Welcome back Gags.

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10-14-2010, 11:56 AM
  #93
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Ill be there cheering as loudly as I can for Gagne because, well......HE ****ING DESERVES IT!!!

When Sundin joined the Canucks and came back to play in Toronto, they gave him the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd star that night. I think Gagne deserves all 3 slots no matter the outcome.

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10-14-2010, 12:13 PM
  #94
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I'm calling it -- Richie gets one tonight. Gags an assist...on a Lecavalier goal

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10-14-2010, 12:15 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The impossible to understand stupidity of the Shelley contract cannot be brought up enough, IMO.

You can rationally explain to me why you feel we should be blowing that much cash on D. I disagree, but you can explain it in a rational way.

Giving three years to Shelley is completely inexplicable.
I like Shelley but not the length or price of his contract. Also, he's not necessary. I don't know why the team felt he was. We have a coach who, like Hitchcock, is more about "team toughness" than about throwing bruisers out there.

This difference in philosophy and the alleged difference of opinion about Bill Guerin had me thinking that Lava and Homer weren't seeing eye to eye. Shelley playing over Nodl and Guerin remaining unsigned sort of closes the gap for me, but who knows besides those on the team?

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10-14-2010, 12:23 PM
  #96
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Isn't somebody returning to Philly tonight? Oh yeah...Steve Downie.

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10-14-2010, 12:27 PM
  #97
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I like Shelley but not the length or price of his contract. Also, he's not necessary. I don't know why the team felt he was. We have a coach who, like Hitchcock, is more about "team toughness" than about throwing bruisers out there.

This difference in philosophy and the alleged difference of opinion about Bill Guerin had me thinking that Lava and Homer weren't seeing eye to eye. Shelley playing over Nodl and Guerin remaining unsigned sort of closes the gap for me, but who knows besides those on the team?
By all accounts, Shelley is a good team guy (so was Riley Cote, which is why I respected him so much) and a good guy to have as a role player during the regular season. There is no debate that Shelley deserves a spot on a NHL roster. However, as you say, the cost is simply too much (though, on a 1-year deal I could stomach it) and the years too much (at no price do I really want a true 4th liner locked up for 3 years).

Then you look at the bigger picture and what should be the most important question for a team like the Flyers: will this player help us win a Stanley Cup?

The simple fact is that Shelley will play zero role in the Flyers winning the cup... in fact, I think we will all be relatively shocked if Shelley dresses for a single playoff game. Sure, he may have a role in a handful of chippy regular season games (and "handful" cannot be stressed enough), but he isn't going to do much for us past there... and he's certainly not going to swing the balance of a playoff game against the better teams.

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10-14-2010, 12:28 PM
  #98
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Isn't somebody returning to Philly tonight? Oh yeah...Steve Downie.
...Downie would look so good on this team at this point.

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10-14-2010, 12:41 PM
  #99
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go flyers!!!!

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10-14-2010, 12:46 PM
  #100
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Bummed I am going to miss this game miss seeing Gags back for the first time. I hope the Flyers win 10-9 and Gagne scores all nine goals for the lightning.

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