HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Canucks almost had Rick Nash

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-01-2005, 04:03 PM
  #51
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM3owner
Capitals wanted Rick Nash as well....
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bmarshall63/bm29.html

The Capitals promised to make an impact one way or another, entering the draft with no less than three first round picks, care of a series of trades in the latter half of the 2001-02 season. Entering the draft, McPhee held the 12th, 13th and 17th overall picks, but made no secret of the fact that he would deal those picks either for help immediately, or to seize one of the top three selections in the draft. It was an open secret that McPhee coveted power forward Rick Nash of the London Knights, yet the Capitals GM was stymied.

In the days leading up to the draft, a deal appeared imminent between the Caps and the Atlanta Thrashers, sitting at #2 overall and overtly shopping their pick. Yet on the morning of the 22nd, the Columbus Blue Jackets swung a three-way deal with the Florida Panthers and the Thrashers to land the first overall selection. With that pick the Blue Jackets drafted Nash, a surprise selection over swift-skating defenseman Jay Bouwmeester, for the top selection in the draft.

Accordingly the Capitals trade with Atlanta fell through. Yet the Caps still possessed three high picks, and a farm system in need of help in the wake of the July 2001 trade for Jaromir Jagr
umm... interesting... that's the 2nd article posted (I posted one earlier in this thread), that again points to there being a gap after the top 3 - and not top 4.

again I'm going strictly on memory here, but these 2 articles also seem to confirm that the 2002 draft - up until the time of the draft, was a top 3 draft, not top 4, before the next level.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-02-2005, 06:20 AM
  #52
Xoggz22
Registered User
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 4,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
bingo.

the point is that Nash is given a lot more defensive slack on the jackets, than he ever would on the canucks. The canucks don't have the luxury to give prospects tons of icetime to develop, and to develop their offensive games like many non-playoff teams do. Case in the point - the Sedins, who were receiving 8-12 mins a game in their first few seasons (with Daniel getting usually the 8-10 slot). Allen is another example.

Nash would be getting about 11-13 mins a game in Vancouver... until of course he develops into a solid 2-way player. He just wouldn't get the chance to focus on offense as much.

he would still develop into an excellent player IMO, but the development curve would be slower, and he likely wouldn't be anywhere close to 40 goals at the age he's at now.
Fair enough and thanks for the clarification. We're just a little tired of the Nash/Def responsibility bashing. We know he needs to work on it and in reality the numbers are even worse than they look because in year 1 on the CBJ he was only getting 14 min/game and year two was around 17 min/game. He still isn't to the 20 min per game mark which scares me if he is that much of a defensive liability. He'll get there....he works hard and wants to be a complete player.

Xoggz22 is offline  
Old
05-02-2005, 01:23 PM
  #53
HockeyMan9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
umm... interesting... that's the 2nd article posted (I posted one earlier in this thread), that again points to there being a gap after the top 3 - and not top 4.

again I'm going strictly on memory here, but these 2 articles also seem to confirm that the 2002 draft - up until the time of the draft, was a top 3 draft, not top 4, before the next level.
I think you're right, before the draft DM kept talking about the big 3 as he called it.

HockeyMan9 is offline  
Old
05-02-2005, 05:41 PM
  #54
firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
 
firstroundbust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: United States
Posts: 5,641
vCash: 500
almost counts only in horseshoes and hand grenades.

firstroundbust is offline  
Old
05-04-2005, 04:21 AM
  #55
PecaFan
Registered User
 
PecaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
Posts: 8,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
TO ATLANTA:
Bryan Allen (potential #2 defenseman and Waddell loves big physical defensemen. i.e. Coburn, Valabik)
Artem Chubarov (potential Selke contendor at the time, young, feisty and cheap)
1st rounder in 2003
Alex Auld (to answer Atlanta's goaltending needs)
Brandon Reid (potential 2nd liner at that point in time)

TO VANCOUVER:
2nd Overall pick
old defenseman (Ken Sutton or Frank Kaberle)
Why do folks always make these deals so huge? The price isn't that high for top picks, when you can find a team willing to deal it away. We got the 4th overal used on Sedin for McCabe and a 1st. 4th overall on Pitkanen was Fedotenko and 2 seconds.

No way it takes 4 guys and 1st rounder to get that pick.

PecaFan is offline  
Old
05-05-2005, 10:09 AM
  #56
Peter
Registered User
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alberta
Posts: 3,662
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
Why do folks always make these deals so huge? The price isn't that high for top picks, when you can find a team willing to deal it away. We got the 4th overal used on Sedin for McCabe and a 1st. 4th overall on Pitkanen was Fedotenko and 2 seconds.

No way it takes 4 guys and 1st rounder to get that pick.
The Canucks were offering Umberger (who Burke knew was going to be trouble to sign), Peter Schaeffer (who was holding out) and their two 2nd round picks that year (remember guys: Canucks did not have a first rounder that year due to reacquiring Linden in November. I can't remember where I read that...internet site perhaps...maybe a rumor's site...I don't know...but I definetly heard that Burke was trying for Atlanta's first pick.

Remember, Umberger was a decently rated #1 pick and Schaeffer was a player with significant value (just caught between a rock and a hard place negotiatingly speaking). For Atlanta to add two NHL caliber fowards and get two extra 2nd round picks, in what was being called a weaker draft, well...it supposedly caused Atlanta to stop and at least think about it.


Last edited by Peter: 05-05-2005 at 10:15 AM.
Peter is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 01:24 AM
  #57
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The Canucks were offering Umberger (who Burke knew was going to be trouble to sign), Peter Schaeffer (who was holding out) and their two 2nd round picks that year (remember guys: Canucks did not have a first rounder that year due to reacquiring Linden in November. I can't remember where I read that...internet site perhaps...maybe a rumor's site...I don't know...but I definetly heard that Burke was trying for Atlanta's first pick.

Remember, Umberger was a decently rated #1 pick and Schaeffer was a player with significant value (just caught between a rock and a hard place negotiatingly speaking). For Atlanta to add two NHL caliber fowards and get two extra 2nd round picks, in what was being called a weaker draft, well...it supposedly caused Atlanta to stop and at least think about it.
WOW, I know Don Waddel isn't exactly Lou Lamoriello but I doubt he was pondering trading a top 3 pick (that was a weak draft, but the top 4 of 2002 was said to be stellar - turns out Nash, Lehtonen, Bouw, and Pitkanen are stellar) for a mid-1st round pick prospect and a mediocre 3rd liner in Schaefer. No chance.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 01:36 AM
  #58
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 35,765
vCash: 500
One thing I mentioned in the identical thread on the Canucks board is that Atlanta got draft picks from Florida just to sit tight and take the player they wanted anyway. So would you want Lehtonen and two draft picks, or an average collection of players and picks?

Epsilon is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 02:19 AM
  #59
blitzkriegs
Registered User
 
blitzkriegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Beach & Mtn & Island
Posts: 8,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
Brian Burke just said on TSN intermission of Latvia - Canada game that he had made a big bid to get the #2 pick to draft Rick Nash and Don Waddell messed it up the morning of the draft.

Did anyone hear this before ?

DR
Burke never seems to miss an opportunity to toot his own horn. Now, he's even talking about 'could have beens.'

blitzkriegs is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 04:01 PM
  #60
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 35,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
Burke never seems to miss an opportunity to toot his own horn. Now, he's even talking about 'could have beens.'
Exactly. I'm sure a lot of teams could have had this or could have had that, but they just don't run around telling everybody.

__________________
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Legionnaire is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 04:05 PM
  #61
incawg
Registered User
 
incawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceUNO
almost counts only in horseshoes and hand grenades.
and crap fights

incawg is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 04:13 PM
  #62
Flames Draft Watcher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
You're wrong. It was the big 4 aand then a significant drop off.
No, it was the big 3, then a bit of a drop off to Pitkanen then a bigger drop off to Lupul and others.

Flames Draft Watcher is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 04:16 PM
  #63
looooob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
Burke never seems to miss an opportunity to toot his own horn. Now, he's even talking about 'could have beens.'
that's true. I don't mind Burke actually, but I believe during last years playoffs he was also bringing up how he 'almost' traded for Kiprusoff but didn't

looooob is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 04:47 PM
  #64
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
that's true. I don't mind Burke actually, but I believe during last years playoffs he was also bringing up how he 'almost' traded for Kiprusoff but didn't
yea... he talked about the deal he almost had... but wouldn't do it unless he got insurance in the deal, which SJ wasn't going to give (I'm guessing a cond. pick?)...

but with Burke - you gotta consider his situation right now... he'd be stupid not to toot his own horn! The guy is looking for a management position in the league somewhere, and is working on a platform that allows him to sell himself to teams looking for a replacement in the GM position.

I can't blame him for using his opportunities to create a market for himself - which would allow him a choice of where to go, and better leverage in negotiating his own contract. That's typical Burke - and what makes him successful at what he does.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 05:03 PM
  #65
blitzkriegs
Registered User
 
blitzkriegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Beach & Mtn & Island
Posts: 8,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
yea... he talked about the deal he almost had... but wouldn't do it unless he got insurance in the deal, which SJ wasn't going to give (I'm guessing a cond. pick?)...

but with Burke - you gotta consider his situation right now... he'd be stupid not to toot his own horn! The guy is looking for a management position in the league somewhere, and is working on a platform that allows him to sell himself to teams looking for a replacement in the GM position.

I can't blame him for using his opportunities to create a market for himself - which would allow him a choice of where to go, and better leverage in negotiating his own contract. That's typical Burke - and what makes him successful at what he does.
He's talking about deals he 'could have made' about players that are shinning. Basically, he wants to promote himself under the guise of that players limelight.

Kinda pathetic that he's focusing on all those 'could haves' but never 'did' - There's only 2 GM jobs available in the NHL - Burke's complete record is no secret to anyone. Apparently, he's not too comfortable with it because he needs to add 'could haves' to self-promote.

Kinda like the kid who guys to an avg state college, but says i 'could have' gone to that better private school. In reality, you couldn't and didn't so you are where you are.

blitzkriegs is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 05:36 PM
  #66
futurcorerock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 6,435
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to futurcorerock
Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
that's true. I don't mind Burke actually, but I believe during last years playoffs he was also bringing up how he 'almost' traded for Kiprusoff but didn't
Sounds like he'd be the greatest GM ever and the Canucks should have 5 cups now.... almost!!!!!

Kipper in net and Nasher scoring goals... wow!!!!


futurcorerock is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 06:46 PM
  #67
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,857
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
He's talking about deals he 'could have made' about players that are shinning. Basically, he wants to promote himself under the guise of that players limelight.

Kinda pathetic that he's focusing on all those 'could haves' but never 'did' - There's only 2 GM jobs available in the NHL - Burke's complete record is no secret to anyone. Apparently, he's not too comfortable with it because he needs to add 'could haves' to self-promote.

Kinda like the kid who guys to an avg state college, but says i 'could have' gone to that better private school. In reality, you couldn't and didn't so you are where you are.
well, unlike what you'd probably be doing, Burke is looking for leverage.

there are 2 GM jobs available right now... who knows what it'll be like when the CBA is all hammered out?

If I'm looking for a job in any market, I don't focus on how many jobs are there, and take the first one that's offered. I would want to increase my leverage in the market - negotiate the best contract I can for myself. Burke's not exactly in a situation where he has to take the first job offered to him... he can hold out and wait for the right offer.... the right offer doesn't always just come up with you sitting there and waiting for it.

I don't blame Burke at all, because I'd probably be doing the same thing - in terms of promoting myself on one of the very few hockey mediums right now, to try and get a team out there looking to get me, rather than just waiting on 2 available spots right now and taking whatever is offered.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-06-2005, 07:04 PM
  #68
blitzkriegs
Registered User
 
blitzkriegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Beach & Mtn & Island
Posts: 8,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
well, unlike what you'd probably be doing, Burke is looking for leverage.

there are 2 GM jobs available right now... who knows what it'll be like when the CBA is all hammered out?

If I'm looking for a job in any market, I don't focus on how many jobs are there, and take the first one that's offered. I would want to increase my leverage in the market - negotiate the best contract I can for myself. Burke's not exactly in a situation where he has to take the first job offered to him... he can hold out and wait for the right offer.... the right offer doesn't always just come up with you sitting there and waiting for it.

I don't blame Burke at all, because I'd probably be doing the same thing - in terms of promoting myself on one of the very few hockey mediums right now, to try and get a team out there looking to get me, rather than just waiting on 2 available spots right now and taking whatever is offered.
If there was ever going to be GM change before or after the CBA, don't you think it would be before the CBA. As a TP or Owner, you are going to pay a GM to do everything in his capacity during the most trying times this league has ever seen, then easily dimiss that person after the cba. ok. that might be YOUR philosophy.

If Burke is already on "one of the very few hockey mediums right now" he is obviously experiencing greater exposure within the hockey community for those that seek it. He doesn't need to promote his 'could haves.'

Amazingly, is he sitting behind that desk going, "well, i knew for 4+ years that my goaltending situation was inadequate, but i didn't pull the trigger on obtaining that goalie to take us to the next level. i thought Hedberg could have done, but ..." -No.

OR "well, my team consistently finished among the top 5 teams each year, but never snipped the conference finals, so i did this, that, and this to get us over the hump" - No.

Technically, is there something wrong with it? Most likely no. For the very reason you state (because he is seeking a job in a limited market). However, he has foregone his merits/accomplishments to mere speculation by riding the coattails of rising players he did NOT obtain for the betterment of the franchise he was in charge. All this for his OWN benefit. That's unprofessional.

blitzkriegs is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.