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Old
10-03-2010, 08:54 PM
  #1
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Zac Dalpe

I was at the game in Atlanta, the 1-0 one. This kid blew me away, terrific puck handling, passing, hockey smarts, he just knew right where to be at all times....I think he could become another Brandon Sutter type guy for us....thoughts?

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10-03-2010, 08:59 PM
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Agreed but I think he'll be a little more offensively talented while Sutter will hold the advantage defensively. I want to see Jokinen play wing with either Sutter or Staal centering him so that Dalpe can get a chance at the 3rd line spot. But I think if/when Nash comes up he'll have to move to wing. There just won't be enough minutes to go around at center for all of them.

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10-04-2010, 01:40 AM
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I think down the road Sutter moves to 3rd line center and Dalpe to 2nd line center... Next year or in 2... Not that Dalpe will be a better player, just think their roles will be better used in those roles as they develop

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10-04-2010, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
But I think if/when Nash comes up he'll have to move to wing. There just won't be enough minutes to go around at center for all of them.
Do you think Nash is a better center? Or do you think that Dalpe can play wing and Nash can't?

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10-04-2010, 10:05 AM
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^^I think he means that Nash can't play wing and Dalpe can.

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10-14-2010, 09:04 PM
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I'm confused as to what the Hurricanes are doing with Dalpe, as far as his development goes.

1st Game = 7:32 TOI
2nd Game = 6:36
3rd Game = 7:21

Why not just send the kid down to get more minutes in the AHL? I'm a fan of Dalpe, but that kind of ice time on the 4th line cannot be healthy for his development.

Why isn't Carolina putting him into position to get prime ice time, either in the NHL or AHL?

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10-14-2010, 09:07 PM
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Welcome to Carolina's prospect development scheme since forever. Enjoy your stay.

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10-14-2010, 09:14 PM
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10-14-2010, 09:17 PM
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No room for Dalpe in the Top 9 when you have "special" talents like Chad LaRose and Patrick Dwyer.

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10-14-2010, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
No room for Dalpe in the Top 9 when you have "special" talents like Chad LaRose.
Or a guy like Dwyer...

I don't know, Rutherford and Maurice get paid to know how to develop these guys, but that kind of ice time for Dalpe, in a non-scoring role seems....not good?

I mean, if you think the kid is a potential offensive player, then put him in a position in the lineup and with ice time to actually...score. If that position and ice time isn't available right now, then send him down and let him develop. I just don't get it.

(I'm not trying to troll here...Dalpe is one of my favorite under the radar prospects and I'm not liking how the Canes are handling him)

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10-14-2010, 09:28 PM
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None of us like how they're handling Dalpe, but if he's going to play center, it's going to be on the 4th line. I wish we could move Jokinen back to wing to make room for Dalpe in the top 9 but at this point Jokinen is our only good faceoff man. Dalpe's only chance of moving into the top 9 is if they move him or Staal to the wing, and we all know no matter how many faceoffs Staal continues to lose, we probably aren't going to move him back to wing.

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10-14-2010, 09:35 PM
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Paul Maurice is terrible at handling prospects.

Really, with how our offense is stagnated, you would think that you would put LaRose on the 4th line and Dalpe with Sutter/Jokinen.

However, I think it has to do with all players having defensive responsibility in both zones. Hence, Dalpe will be sheltered until Maurice is certain that he will not make "rookie" mistakes. Same reason that POS was scratched, despite being our best offensive player in the preseason.

It's an idiotic cycle. He puts players in limited minutes, and when they don't move up, they stay in his doghouse.

Thats why us 'Canes fans love Sutter. He basically came up and was the best player on the ice every night playing 5 minutes of ES and PK. Still, Mo would not move him from the 4th line until Rutherford came out to the media and said "Paul WILL be playing Sutter."

Basically, until Dalpe proves he is a super stud, he is going to be caught on the 4th line with Tommy K. and the random plug in of the week.

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10-14-2010, 09:55 PM
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yeah they essentially might as well move Dalpe to the AHL at this point, he's being completely underserved playing 7 and change a night here. He'd be getting first or second line minutes with Charlotte in all situations. What's especially frustrating to me is that we have some guys in the system right now that are practically built for a 4th line role, but they don't get the nod. Any of Dodge, Blanchard or Chaput prettymuch have little left to prove in the AHL and are built for a 4th line role, but they can't even get a sniff. In the meantime we're wasting Dalpe in order to play Dwyer on the Sutter line? Seriously?

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10-15-2010, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
yeah they essentially might as well move Dalpe to the AHL at this point, he's being completely underserved playing 7 and change a night here. He'd be getting first or second line minutes with Charlotte in all situations. What's especially frustrating to me is that we have some guys in the system right now that are practically built for a 4th line role, but they don't get the nod. Any of Dodge, Blanchard or Chaput prettymuch have little left to prove in the AHL and are built for a 4th line role, but they can't even get a sniff. In the meantime we're wasting Dalpe in order to play Dwyer on the Sutter line? Seriously?
Absolutely agree with everything you said, DaveG. But, as we know it, and Juice Me Up Baby stated (in an excellent post, by the way), Maurice likes his 2-way guys and the ones he has trust in defensively (LaRose, Dwyer) too much to recognize they're better suited for a checking role than Dalpe or O'Sullivan.

I suppose JR also deserves some blame for keeping some of these kids here when others in Charlotte are better served for the role we're currently utilizing a kid like Dalpe in. Although it wouldn't be a question if Maurice would just play guys where they're best suited. Being LaRose and Dwyer on the 4th with Kostopoulos with Dalpe, O'Sullivan, etc, in a top 9 scoring role.

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Old
10-15-2010, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Me Up Baby View Post

However, I think it has to do with all players having defensive responsibility in both zones. Hence, Dalpe will be sheltered until Maurice is certain that he will not make "rookie" mistakes. Same reason that POS was scratched, despite being our best offensive player in the preseason................

Basically, until Dalpe proves he is a super stud, he is going to be caught on the 4th line with Tommy K. and the random plug in of the week.
I think you hit the nail on the head here and there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to back it up.

1) Raved how responsible Bowman is defensively in the pre-season. Thus Bowman sticks with the team and is getting ice-time on the Sutter line.
2) Complained about POS defensive zone coverage..thus he is 4th line/scratched.
3) Dalpe starts on the 4th line.
4) LaRose is "defensively responsible" so he gets 1st line time
5) Dwyer is "defensively responsible" so he gets time on the Sutter line.

etc..

I guess this could be an effective strategy IF he eventually releases the reigns somewhat when the guys have proven themselves and puts them on lines where they can score more and get more minutes. If that doesn't happen, then we'll continue to be an offensively challenged team.

By the way, I am ok with Dalpe starting the season on the 4th line and getting accustomed to the NHL game for a while before handing over a 3rd line C role. I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt for about 15 games or so before I really complain about it.

I really think that he or Bowman (or both) will be back in Charlotte once Tlusty is healthy though (unless someone else is injured).

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10-15-2010, 07:32 AM
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a couple of quick questions.... first, can dalpe play wing or is he a centerman by trade and better utilized as a centerman. if he can play wing efffectively ala jeff o'neill or even juice, why not toss him on the wing. second, does the center have to take every face-off as rule, or can a coach put whomever he wants in the circle? i never really thought about this as a "rule" but since we are so limited with faceoff winners at the center spot, could we put a winger as our faceoff guy? i.e.- put jussi on sutter or staal's wing, yet let him duke it out in the faceoff circle when his line is on the ice.

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10-15-2010, 07:55 AM
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He can play wing and has at previous stops but the Canes have been pretty firm that they are developing him as a center. If Dalpe is still up after 10 games and still getting 8 minutes then ill complain. Till then im cool with letting the kid acclimate to the bigs. I believe this is essentially like the 9 game junior tryout period. He is going to be sent to the A as soon as Tlusty is healthy. *****ing about his minutes 3 games into the season seems a little silly. Lets wait till we have real reason to complain

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10-15-2010, 08:43 AM
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I'm generally one who has to remind myself we're only 3 games in and some of these decisions are likely to change, and while being aware of that I just find many of them so damn bad. I'd be fine with kids like Dalpe on the 3rd line, which in my opinion is a good spot for them. Not to much icetime, but enough to get their feet wet in both the offensive and defensive aspects of the game but also find a common ground where they can get a good flow going and hopefully build some confidence, playing 7 minutes a game makes that tough. I don't want to sound like a broken rocord, and I like do by now, but having guys like LaRose and Dwyer playing on top lines with Staal and Sutter is what is silly to me when we've got others who can likely be more productive in the role. And by the looks of things right now we could use a better offensive flow to our game. It just bothers me more I guess. I just don't think it takes a rocket scientist to form line combinations where your best offensive producers are in scoring roles and your checkers, grinders and energy guys are in roles that suit what they bring to the ice. To me, it just makes more sense.

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10-15-2010, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice Me Up Baby View Post
Paul Maurice is terrible at handling prospects.

Thats why us 'Canes fans love Sutter. He basically came up and was the best player on the ice every night playing 5 minutes of ES and PK. Still, Mo would not move him from the 4th line until Rutherford came out to the media and said "Paul WILL be playing Sutter."
Let's see how you did in your research...

Game 1 - Oct 24 2009 - 12:13 TOI (he was a -1 in this game)
Game 2 - Oct 28 2009 - 13:35 TOI (he was a -2 in this game)
Game 3 - Oct 31 2009 - 12:55 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 4 - Nov 1 2009 - 11:26 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 5 - Nov 4 2009 - 10:28 TOI
Game 6 - Nov 6 2009 - 17:29 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 7 - Nov 7 2009 - 16:53 TOI
Game 8 - Nov 11 2009 - 17:31 TOI
Game 9 - Nov 13 2009 - 20:24 TOI
Game 10 - Nov 15 2009 - 20:59 TOI

That is not an unreasonable progression for an AHL callup.

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10-15-2010, 10:36 AM
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While I'm with the group that would like to see both Bowman and Dalpe get more ice time, I'm in agreement with those that feel it is still early and perhaps they are "gettting his feet wet". The challenge as I see it is "getting into the flow". Running regular shifts every 2 or 3 minutes so that you can really get a feel for the game.

Dalpe is a natural center who can easily move to wing....and he may be our best faceoff guy. What I'm hoping is that we move our natural 4th liners down to that line and roll lines w/the rookies on them. Yet I understand the need for the coaches to have confidence in their defensive responsibilities as well. This does beg the question as to how you are going to get a good reading on that given 6 to 7 minutes a night. At any rate, I feel these kids will see their time increased, get some top 9 time, but they are being eased into it. So I'll be patient through this first quarter of the season.

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10-15-2010, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Let's see how you did in your research...

Game 1 - Oct 24 2009 - 12:13 TOI (he was a -1 in this game)
Game 2 - Oct 28 2009 - 13:35 TOI (he was a -2 in this game)
Game 3 - Oct 31 2009 - 12:55 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 4 - Nov 1 2009 - 11:26 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 5 - Nov 4 2009 - 10:28 TOI
Game 6 - Nov 6 2009 - 17:29 TOI (he scored a goal!)
Game 7 - Nov 7 2009 - 16:53 TOI
Game 8 - Nov 11 2009 - 17:31 TOI
Game 9 - Nov 13 2009 - 20:24 TOI
Game 10 - Nov 15 2009 - 20:59 TOI

That is not an unreasonable progression for an AHL callup.

I was one who was calling for Sutter to get more time, and I think it was deserved whether he was a call-up or not. The team was complete **** and Sutter was the best player on the ice in almost each and every game after he was called up, there was no reason not to play the hot hand in that situation in my opinion. But no, play the vets... and how far did that get us? Well... Jeff Skinner, so thank you, but I still stand by playing your best players whether they're an AHL call-up, 18, 19 or 20 years old or a veteran, you play the best players and the hot hand.

Whether it be in last years situation or this years, especially playing the likes of Chad LaRose and Pat Dwyer in top line scoring role where they're next to useless, I feel confident that one of Dalpe, Bowman or O'Sullivan could be just as effective or better if given time with Sutter, Staal or on a line with Jussi & Ruutu like those two bottom 6 guys have been given. Jeff Skinner come straight from junior and although we're on a strict timeline of finding out whether or not he can stick, he's an 18 year old kid and one of our best players because he's gotten an opportunity that fits and meshes well with what he can offer and bring to the table. Who's to say Dalpe, Bowman or O'Sullivan couldn't have the same sort of impact if played to their strengths in fitting roles such as Skinner is? But no, LaRose and Dwyer get the call.

With that said, as far as guys like Bowman, Dalpe, etc, go.. if they're here they should atleast be getting 3rd line minutes or they're better off in Charlotte for my liking. To each their own I suppose. I said right from the get go I would be fine with them on the 4th line so long as they get 10+ minutes a game and maybe some special teams play. 7 minutes a night for those guys playing with Kostopoulos isn't enough in my opinion and if it's what will continue to happen I hope things change. If we are indeed breaking those kids in slowly and gradually, then I rest my case but Maurice seems far too in love with guys like LaRose and Dwyer to cut their minutes in the top 6-9 at the expense of a more talented, offensive kid in the form of Dalpe, Bowman or even O'Sullivan.

Or, maybe I am completely wasting my time *****ing and both Bowman and Dalpe are only up until Samsonov is 100% and Tlusty is ready to go, (which is a very likely scenerio) so we're just giving them limited minutes to get their feet wet. However, I still believe you should ice the best team and play the players in roles in which they can endure success in. I understand this year isn't all about winning as much as it is seeing what we've got in some of these kids, so why limit their icetime and opportunity for the likes of LaRose and Dwyer? I know we evidently want to win as many games as possible, obviously, but I stand pretty firm in believing Dalpe, Bowman or O'Sullivan would do just as good or better of a job in an offensive role than Dwyer or LaRose.

And of course we're just 3 games in, and maybe i'm *****ing and complaining a little pre-maturely, but it irks me when we play bottom 6 checkers in scoring roles with our best players and let the talented kids who actually have a solid grasp of the offensive game and the tools to likely produce, play piss poor minutes. I see one method of being just as good and likely more productive than the other, that's what bugs me. Rookies or not, 18 years old or a veteran, you play the best players who can excel at certain roles so long as they have shown they can hold their own and likely be productive in the role. To me, Dalpe, Bowman or O'Sullivan likely could be. Dwyer and LaRose? Highly unlikely.


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10-15-2010, 12:14 PM
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If Maurice immediately got the hook out for guys like LaRose and Dwyer, folks would be complaining that they never got a chance. Are three games too much to prove your worth on a given line? Maybe it is plenty of time, but I can't say that 2 games is plenty. It's not clear to me that players like Bowman and Dalpe proven that they are deserving of a substantial increase in TOI. And there's also the fact that Skinner moved up to play with Staal, so it's not like things are impossibly static here...

Three games with a team of many new players, and many playing in new roles. We knew this was coming, so maybe we can have a bit more patience with it.

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10-15-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
If Maurice immediately got the hook out for guys like LaRose and Dwyer, folks would be complaining that they never got a chance. Are three games too much to prove your worth on a given line? Maybe it is plenty of time, but I can't say that 2 games is plenty. It's not clear to me that players like Bowman and Dalpe proven that they are deserving of a substantial increase in TOI. And there's also the fact that Skinner moved up to play with Staal, so it's not like things are impossibly static here...

Three games with a team of many new players, and many playing in new roles. We knew this was coming, so maybe we can have a bit more patience with it.

Maybe we'll agree to disagree. I really don't think too many people (of course I can not and will not speak for anyone but myself) would be complaining if Dwyer and or LaRose never got a chance, or got pulled off the top lines this early. I think there were plenty complaints on this board alone when those lines were first made public. I think it's safe to say we know what we've got in LaRose and Dwyer that it's worth giving Dalpe, O'Sullivan or Bowman a chance. They all had good, solid camps and preaseason in my opinion. If they're here, we should try and utilize them to the best of their abilities.

I agree it's a new team with new players and roles, I just didn't expect nor see the need to have LaRose and Dwyer filling those roles. It's mind numbing that they're being placed on a line with our best offensive guys when they're a couple of the least offensive gifted guys on the team.

As I said though, we can agree to disagree. Perhaps we see it different, I guess we'll just have to see how things play out.

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10-15-2010, 04:38 PM
  #24
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^This^

I believe that there's a misconception that those of us who are pushing for LaRose and/or Dwyer to move to a different line are somehow denigrating or, more appropriately, not appreciating those players. What Guerzy indicates parrots my feelings as well. Bowman, Dalpe, and O'Sullivan are just plain more skilled when it comes to a scoring perspective. Can and have Dwyer and LaRose been scorers at the lower levels? Absolutely. But the fact remains that Drayson, Zac, and Patty have a more sophisticated offensive component to their game. Arguably Chad and PattyD have a more sophisticated "heart and soul" component to their game. It just seems to me, that now is the time to experiment with some of these lines. Without that experimentation we won't know whether these guys are "next level" types of talent. Like Guerzy says, we know what we have in Rosey and Dwyer. We need to see what we have with the Young Guns....

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10-15-2010, 04:54 PM
  #25
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I think Forslund put it best last night in the game. Can't remember the exact quote, but it was something like:

"These things take time. Any coach will tell you it takes about 20 games to get a good feel for the players and what they can do, what they can bring to the table, and when you've got a team as young as the Canes and with as many new pieces as they have, even more so"

It's Game 3. Give it time. If O'Sullivan and Dalpe are as offensively-gifted as everyone expects them to be, they'll be playing offensive roles eventually. They'll show what they can do in practices. Right now, it's probably better to go with what you know this early in the season, if only to avoid the start we had last season.

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