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Coyotes potentially returning to Winnipeg?!

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10-15-2010, 08:03 AM
  #1
Habs83
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Coyotes potentially returning to Winnipeg?!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1757924/

Quote:
Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs and city council have until Dec. 31 to find a buyer willing to keep the team in Glendale. If they fail, the NHL, which bought the Coyotes for $140-million in a U.S. Bankruptcy Court auction in October of 2009, can sell the team to someone who wants to move it. Scruggs and other Glendale politicians have said that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has an offer in hand from True North Sports and Entertainment Ltd., in Winnipeg for at least $165-million.

A third source, an NHL governor, said Hulsizer was told at least a month ago that Bettman will never agree to sell the franchise for less than what the entire Coyotes’ debacle has cost the league. The NHL could have as much as $175-million invested now, since it covered the Coyotes’ losses through this summer. Glendale agreed to cover up to $25-million of this season’s losses beginning Sept. 1 in order to keep the NHL from selling the team sooner than the end of the year.
Quote:
The NHL governor said many of his peers are not keen on seeing the Coyotes return to Winnipeg, which they left in 1996. But if the alternative is that each team owner has to write a big cheque to cover the NHL’s losses on the Coyotes, “we will go to Winnipeg,” the governor said.
Hopefully this "potential" deal between the NHL and Hulsizer falls through, and the Yotes move back to where they belong!!

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10-15-2010, 08:28 AM
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Habitants
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just get them back to where they belong and end this debacle

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10-15-2010, 08:30 AM
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so wait, the city officials are actually offering to pay 25million$ for the team to LEAVE PHX!!!?

sure now that is a city that deserves to have an NHL club.

just get them back to where they belong and end this debacle
25 Million of this season. Prbly in hopes of finding a local investor in the meantime.

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10-15-2010, 08:34 AM
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They need to just suck it up and realize they picked a piss poor market and move the team back to where it belongs.

I mean was Winnipeg ever that bad in terms of filling the stands as Phoenix is now?

Plus I bet the people of Manitoba never allow their Jets to move ever again and will be far more supportive of the team if it's brought back.

I can see it selling out the first couple seasons.

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10-15-2010, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
25 Million of this season. Prbly in hopes of finding a local investor in the meantime.
Yeah but what does a move like that say to a potential investor? The team is clearly not doing good if it needs that 25 million.

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10-15-2010, 08:54 AM
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Bettman expects the new owners to pick up the tab for his pigheaded mismanagement of the Phoenix situation? He's lucky Canadians love hockey that much.

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10-15-2010, 09:00 AM
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They will have to put money in their new arena in Winnipeg right ? I think they only have something like 15000 seats ?

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10-15-2010, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
They will have to put money in their new arena in Winnipeg right ? I think they only have something like 15000 seats ?

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10-15-2010, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
They will have to put money in their new arena in Winnipeg right ? I think they only have something like 15000 seats ?
15,000 full seats > 18,000 empty seats.

But yes, they have some kind of seating capacity plan to bring it up to NHL size, I believe.

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10-15-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
They will have to put money in their new arena in Winnipeg right ? I think they only have something like 15000 seats ?
15015 to be exact
no expansion will take place. Chipman (the owner) has stated this numerous times.
bettman himself has said publicly that the arena is good to go as is.

as far as I am concered, arena size is a moot point
sold out 15k arena or a half sold 18-20k arena...
which one is better?

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10-15-2010, 09:07 AM
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coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
15015 to be exact
no expansion will take place. Chipman (the owner) has stated this numerous times.
bettman himself has said publicly that the arena is good to go as is.

as far as I am concered, arena size is a moot point
sold out 15k arena or a half sold 18-20k arena...
which one is better?
plus, less seats, less supply, higher prices.

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Old
10-15-2010, 09:09 AM
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katatoniak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
15015 to be exact
no expansion will take place. Chipman (the owner) has stated this numerous times.
bettman himself has said publicly that the arena is good to go as is.

as far as I am concered, arena size is a moot point
sold out 15k arena or a half sold 18-20k arena...
which one is better?
Agree with this ... anyway what's the attendance in phoenix this season ? 6000 persons + 4000 who got free tickets ?

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Old
10-15-2010, 09:09 AM
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King Woodballs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
plus, less seats, less supply, higher prices.
ding ding!
simple supply and demand principals.

p.s. for those who might be interested.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=829205

This is part 13 in the saga

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Old
10-15-2010, 09:16 AM
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The issue with Winnipeg was not so much the filling of the place. The issue was primarily corporate dollars, 2) TV marketability and 3) lack of ability to create money outside of gate receipts. I don't think any of those issues have been resolved. Winnipeg is fine from a hockey purist point of view, true hockey town that will fill the stadium. It does not make much sense from the corporate and economic point of view, which is why the article said the NHL was not keen on returning there.
Phoenix has been a failure - but that does not mean that Winnipeg makes sense to those who want the game to grow economically long term.

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Old
10-15-2010, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
The issue with Winnipeg was not so much the filling of the place. The issue was primarily corporate dollars, 2) TV marketability and 3) lack of ability to create money outside of gate receipts. I don't think any of those issues have been resolved. Winnipeg is fine from a hockey purist point of view, true hockey town that will fill the stadium. It does not make much sense from the corporate and economic point of view, which is why the article said the NHL was not keen on returning there.
Phoenix has been a failure - but that does not mean that Winnipeg makes sense to those who want the game to grow economically long term.
In terms of being able to sustain hockey operations, pay the players, employees, property taxes, they will achieve this just on gate revenue alone.

Now, with the introduction of a new team is new merchandise, which is new money coming in pumping up revenue.

The Winnipeg "Coyotes" will never be a powerhouse financially speaking, but they certainly will have the potential to survive and compete (and likely make a few dollars too)... Which is more than what you can say for about half the league.

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10-15-2010, 09:34 AM
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I want the Yotes to stay where they are !!!

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10-15-2010, 09:41 AM
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Winnipeg ! Yuk, Canada's ugliest city after Edmonton ! The Winnipeg Coyotes Hahaha, more like the Winnipeg Polar Bears !

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10-15-2010, 09:42 AM
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Is the sitting capacity of the arena the real issue here? Quebec City, if I remember correctly, was almost always at full capacity and they lost their team.

I think the real issues are two: ancillary revenue streams & what's in store for the Canadian loonie vis a vis the greenback. NHL teams pay in American shekels.

Manitoba has a pop of 1.5, Saskatchewan .6, the northern territories maybe 100K if you count all the caribou buggered by lonely northerners and maybe you can add some western & northern ontarians who dislike the Toronto Make Believes and maybe you have a total audience of 2 - 2.5 mil at best. Is that enough to support a contending NHL team with a players' payroll of 60 mil + whatever else it takes to staff, manage and run the team which will be another 30-35 mil. So we're talking about an operating budget of 90-95 million?

15,000 * $150(average) = 2,250,000

2,250,000 * 41 (season games) = 92,250,000.

They better hope that all 2.5 million prospective viewers leave the caribou long enough to watch the telecast & buy the merchandise. And also that the loonie doesn't tumble too far behind the greenback.

I'd like Winnipeg to get a team but the numbers just don't crunch to a successful franchise.

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10-15-2010, 09:43 AM
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I hate Winnipeg and love the Phoenix area, so I hope they stay put as well.

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10-15-2010, 09:45 AM
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Won't they will play few home games this year in Winnipeg? I think it's just the confirmation that they will move eventually. They want to know how the market will react during those few games, how many seats will be sold, reaction of the population of Winnipeg and Phoenix, etc.

I think it's better to move one step at the time than move in one shot.

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10-15-2010, 09:46 AM
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The NHL and the City will try to get a deal done and they likely will. Moving to Winnipeg is the if all else fails solution.

There is already a promising deal going on with a Chicago businessman trying to buy the team.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/feed...coyotes-suitor

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10-15-2010, 09:51 AM
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It sucks that Yotes fans have to go through specualtion about their team.

However pro-sports is a business, first and foremost; it's in the sports best interest to have the teams situated in the best markets.

That first-post shows the NHL propping up the Yotes a la US bail-out of auto makers. It's a tough economy right now, not improving, and the league can't keep forking over money to sustain failing teams.

If they have a better option and can recover some of the damages along the way. You have to do that or risk hurting the rest of the owners and the NHLPA.

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10-15-2010, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post

2,250,000 * 41 (season games) = 92,250,000.
You're forgetting about pre-season games. Merchandise sales? They surely will garner some corporate partnerships. Won't they?? And last I checked, Coyotes are PO bound or have a good chance of making it.

The population is more than enough to SUSTAIN a franchise, and make a few extra bucks.

And, why the assumption that the Canadian dollar will pull back instead of continuing the existing trend?

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10-15-2010, 09:55 AM
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I hate Winnipeg and love the Phoenix area, so I hope they stay put as well.
Phoenix being nicer than Winnipeg goes without saying. But we're not talking about where you would rather take a holiday.

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10-15-2010, 10:01 AM
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Lucius
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Don't get your hopes up though.

This is what, the third Winnipeg deadline? It's clearly the silver bullet the NHL is playing to ensure that someone pays them the 150m they want, but so far they've shown no willingness to actually pull the trigger.

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