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Coyotes potentially returning to Winnipeg?!

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Old
10-15-2010, 03:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HalakRulz View Post
I hope they end up back in Winnipeg where they belong and change their name back to the Jets. If they are able to get a good owner with some money and the Salary Caps doesn't disappear, a team in Winnipeg would definitely work. The fans are awesome, they would sell the arena out every game for sure.

Now all we have to do is move a team like Atlanta, Nashville or one of the Florida teams to Quebec and we'll be all set. There is absolutely no reason why those 2 cities shouldn't have hockey teams!!
Bettman was also saying that they need a new building in Long Island badly,wonder if they are in danger of moving.Florida I don't mind if they stay,it's good for Habs fans who travel there in the winter

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10-15-2010, 03:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
The fans sold that place out. They just lost huge amounts of money cause of revenue streams and the cost of currency exchange between the Canadian and American dollar. Add in the fact you had a commissioner who had a hunger for American Expansion he took that team out of Winnipeg faster than you could say Jets. I wish Gary fought as hard to keep the team in Winnipeg as much he's trying to keep the team in Phoenix. The team needs to be back where it shouldn't have left.
No they didn't sell out, not even close. Go look at the numbers before talking out of your ass. The Jets weren't selling out in their final seasons. It wasn't just the Canadian dollar (which affected every Canadian team, and Bettman actually did fight to keep some smaller Canadian market teams in Canada but I guess people like to forget that little detail), it's the fact that Winnipeg just isn't a big enough market. Look at Edmonton, no one wants to play there. Look at Ottawa, a team in a bigger market than Winnipeg than can't sell out certain games.

You guys are romanticizing hockey in Winnipeg without looking at the cold hard facts that allowed the city to lose the team in the first place: no corporate support, small market, small/bad arena, difficulty to attract players, unimpressive economy, etc....

The NHL in Winnipeg will fail twice if they bring the team back there. Either keep it in Phoenix, or find another viable market in the United-States. Canada already exhausted (and exceeded IMHO) the amount of cities capable of having an NHL franchise

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Old
10-15-2010, 03:41 PM
  #53
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How would one cheer for the Jets and the Habs at the same time...

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10-15-2010, 04:01 PM
  #54
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Do you think they would become the "Jets" again? I think that would be great, alot better than some ****** "americanesque" rebranding with a tornado or a wild animal or something.

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10-15-2010, 04:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I hate Winnipeg and love the Phoenix area, so I hope they stay put as well.

I love phx too, but hockey is the last thing on my mind when I'm there. Might as well move them to another passionate market. It only makes the games more fun to watch.

I question Winnipeg's corporate wherewithal to become a long term success, but hey, it cant be more gloomy than phx at this point.

People are making a big deal in this thread about seating capacity, but corporate support and luxury suites are also vital ingredients to a team's long term viability.


Last edited by Hackett: 10-15-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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Old
10-15-2010, 04:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
Look at Edmonton...Look at Ottawa
You do realize that if hypothetically edmonton and ottawa were the "example" of failure in the NHL, that the league would be 10000 times better off than they are now?


Phoenix wishes they could only have 'little canadian city' Ottawa's problems...

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10-15-2010, 05:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Do you think they would become the "Jets" again? I think that would be great, alot better than some ****** "americanesque" rebranding with a tornado or a wild animal or something.
I think it's pretty sure they would stay with the same name, because they can it's the same franchise so they holds the right. Also, I think the products with the their old logo sell pretty well right now.

It would be nice to see Shane Doan make the jump from Winnipeg to Phoenix to Winnipeg again !

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Old
10-15-2010, 05:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Winnipeg has the most millionaries per capita in the country.

however I wont disagree with the UFA comment.
I could see this being an issue

Millionaires don't fill the seats, or at least 40 or 50 of them won't. Its your middle class that you need. Comparing Ottawa is a great example, bigger city and they can't sell out 41 games.

You have to remember, even 15 000 x 41 = 615 000

That is how many people you need to go to fill up every game. With a population of 675 000, you need practically every person to go to a game to be successful. Thats hard to do when you eliminate children that are too young, elderly.

Then you factor in income, factor out a good chunk of women. The average fan would need to attend close to 10 games a season to make the team viable imo.

Are there that many people out there that can afford 10 games @ $50 a pop? I just moved to the states (Indianapolis) and my goal this year is to catch games within 4 hours drives of me and one Habs home game. I'll be lucky to see 4-5 games.

If I lived in Montreal, I don't think I would see 10 games and I'm a life long die hard fan. I just don't see them having the population and money to do it.

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10-15-2010, 05:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Millionaires don't fill the seats, or at least 40 or 50 of them won't. Its your middle class that you need. Comparing Ottawa is a great example, bigger city and they can't sell out 41 games.

You have to remember, even 15 000 x 41 = 615 000

That is how many people you need to go to fill up every game. With a population of 675 000, you need practically every person to go to a game to be successful. Thats hard to do when you eliminate children that are too young, elderly.

Then you factor in income, factor out a good chunk of women. The average fan would need to attend close to 10 games a season to make the team viable imo.

Are there that many people out there that can afford 10 games @ $50 a pop? I just moved to the states (Indianapolis) and my goal this year is to catch games within 4 hours drives of me and one Habs home game. I'll be lucky to see 4-5 games.

If I lived in Montreal, I don't think I would see 10 games and I'm a life long die hard fan. I just don't see them having the population and money to do it.
Remember that there is alot of seasons tickets, or package for many games so yeah alot of peoples will go 5+ games. Also, the Jets will be Manitoba team so it's perhaps and perhaps some part of Saskatchewan and Ontario so it's a bigger population than just the city of Winnipeg. The importance of the millionnaires is view in the selling of corporate luxury suites that are one of the most important thing to make money in sports.

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Old
10-15-2010, 05:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
No they didn't sell out, not even close. Go look at the numbers before talking out of your ass. The Jets weren't selling out in their final seasons. It wasn't just the Canadian dollar (which affected every Canadian team, and Bettman actually did fight to keep some smaller Canadian market teams in Canada but I guess people like to forget that little detail), it's the fact that Winnipeg just isn't a big enough market. Look at Edmonton, no one wants to play there. Look at Ottawa, a team in a bigger market than Winnipeg than can't sell out certain games.

You guys are romanticizing hockey in Winnipeg without looking at the cold hard facts that allowed the city to lose the team in the first place: no corporate support, small market, small/bad arena, difficulty to attract players, unimpressive economy, etc....

The NHL in Winnipeg will fail twice if they bring the team back there. Either keep it in Phoenix, or find another viable market in the United-States. Canada already exhausted (and exceeded IMHO) the amount of cities capable of having an NHL franchise
Smart idea. Move teams to a country who's economy has shown no signs of recovery when other leagues are losing huge amounts of money in a large chunk of their cities. Not only that, but stay clear of the country who's banks didn't fail but instead thrived during the global recession and who's dollar is stronger than it's been in a long time and is predicted to stay that way for years to come. No need to be mad that 4.3 million people can't do what a province of 1.2 million can do.

Speaking of "poor winnipeg numbers", their arena only sat 15,000 and they were averaging ~13,000 when the Canadian dollar was incredibly weak. On the other side Phoenix averaged 15,000 for a couple years at MUCH lower ticket prices and their attendance still goes down in an arena that can fill 17,500. Even the amwest arena held more than Winnipeg, and this is in Phoenix which is one of the "thriving markets" in the USA.

The reason Canada is such a smart place to plant teams is because there's support even when the teams were losing. Just look at Carolina, Tampa Bay, and even Phoenix. Attendance is up when they're winning and attendance is crap when they're not. Towns like that honestly don't deserve teams. I just feel bad for the actual fans who care about hockey in those markets.

Nobody is expecting Winnipeg to be the next Montreal or Toronto, but they'll be a solid mid-spending team like a Columbus who won't be afraid to spend if they've got a real shot to win. Either way with a market like Winnipeg and QC with new arenas and plenty of corporate support won't be teams where you'll have rumours of relocation and selling every two years..

Expansion was to grow the game and now that the game is grown they need to focus on stability, and Phoenix has not provided that once in 15 years. I feel bad for the fans in Phoenix but honestly I feel just as bad as the thousands of fans that rallied to keep the Jets all those years ago. Obviously I feel bad for the 37 people who rallied to keep Phoenix and claimed there was a Canadian media bias, but whatever. In a perfect world both cities could have teams that thrive.

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Old
10-15-2010, 05:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Millionaires don't fill the seats, or at least 40 or 50 of them won't. Its your middle class that you need. Comparing Ottawa is a great example, bigger city and they can't sell out 41 games.

You have to remember, even 15 000 x 41 = 615 000

That is how many people you need to go to fill up every game. With a population of 675 000, you need practically every person to go to a game to be successful. Thats hard to do when you eliminate children that are too young, elderly.

Then you factor in income, factor out a good chunk of women. The average fan would need to attend close to 10 games a season to make the team viable imo.

Are there that many people out there that can afford 10 games @ $50 a pop? I just moved to the states (Indianapolis) and my goal this year is to catch games within 4 hours drives of me and one Habs home game. I'll be lucky to see 4-5 games.

If I lived in Montreal, I don't think I would see 10 games and I'm a life long die hard fan. I just don't see them having the population and money to do it.
As a life time Winnipeger if I would go to a game or two in a season that would be a high estimate, and that would be because I got freebees.

That said,

I have a hard time believing that there will be a lack of fan support in general, I know allot of people chomping at the bit to buy season tix if it were to come true.

As well, the guys at TNSE have done their homework on all of this and they think it will survive. So really who am I to argue.

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Old
10-15-2010, 06:16 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
the coyotes belong in Phoenix, and should stay the hell away from that pathetic excuse of a city named Winnipeg. They are only going to lose their franchise for a second time once the honeymoon is over and the reality of Winnipeg being a horrible city with no corporate support, no glamour, no economy (amongst other things such as the impossible task of attracting player) sinks in and we're back to square one.

I hate when these threads pop up because the delusional "bring a team back to Canada" crowd take any little bit of news as meaning "OMG THE TEAM IS COMING TO WINNIPEG" when the news article don't even mention that at all..
Who said they were moving back for sure???? I said POTENTIALLY!!!!! and if you read the article, you'd see that they have an offer to move the team to Winnipeg, and if they can't secure a deal to keep the team in Phoenix, then the board of governors would move them to Winnipeg instead of paying to keep the team Phonenix.
Quote:
Scruggs and other Glendale politicians have said that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has an offer in hand from True North Sports and Entertainment Ltd., in Winnipeg for at least $165-million.


Quote:
The NHL governor said many of his peers are not keen on seeing the Coyotes return to Winnipeg, which they left in 1996. But if the alternative is that each team owner has to write a big cheque to cover the NHL’s losses on the Coyotes, “we will go to Winnipeg,” the governor said.

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Old
10-15-2010, 06:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by mrCoffea View Post
No they didn't sell out, not even close. Go look at the numbers before talking out of your ass. The Jets weren't selling out in their final seasons. It wasn't just the Canadian dollar (which affected every Canadian team, and Bettman actually did fight to keep some smaller Canadian market teams in Canada but I guess people like to forget that little detail), it's the fact that Winnipeg just isn't a big enough market. Look at Edmonton, no one wants to play there. Look at Ottawa, a team in a bigger market than Winnipeg than can't sell out certain games.

You guys are romanticizing hockey in Winnipeg without looking at the cold hard facts that allowed the city to lose the team in the first place: no corporate support, small market, small/bad arena, difficulty to attract players, unimpressive economy, etc....

The NHL in Winnipeg will fail twice if they bring the team back there. Either keep it in Phoenix, or find another viable market in the United-States. Canada already exhausted (and exceeded IMHO) the amount of cities capable of having an NHL franchise
So, you really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? The majority of issues you raise have already been rectified, and if you did any research you would know this to be true. Read some of the links from reputable sources in the Business of Hockey threads before posting nonsense.

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Old
10-15-2010, 08:25 PM
  #64
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If the Coyotes are going back to Winnipeg...

Does it mean we can have the Avalanches coming back to Quebec ?

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Old
10-15-2010, 09:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by MattKOTW View Post

The reason Canada is such a smart place to plant teams is because there's support even when the teams were losing. Just look at Carolina, Tampa Bay, and even Phoenix. Attendance is up when they're winning and attendance is crap when they're not. Towns like that honestly don't deserve teams. I just feel bad for the actual fans who care about hockey in those markets.
Kind of like when Winnipeg was losing and they couldn't sell out a 15,000 seat arena? Yeah, cities like that don't deserve a team.

And regardless, that's such a childish argument, because in the late 90's you saw some empty seats at Habs games (I remember going to games and having entire sections to myself and my group of friends because my friend's dad's company bought a lot of 50 tickets). Are you saying Montreal doesn't deserve a team either?

Those are things that happen in EVERY city for EVERY sport (other than maybe the NFL). How do you expect people in phoenix to gain interest if they fear the team is going to leave? If an owner buys them and they remain competitive, I'm sure numbers will go up

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