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Old
10-19-2010, 09:20 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Then what about:

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Maroon - Carter - Zherdev
Sure, but Carter is a wing now. Yay!

It's also unclear to me whether Maroon could really contribute playing with Carter... whose game (for worse) is always moving at about 100 mph through the neutral zone.

Say what you will about Hartnell, but he has decent straight away speed and can keep up (before falling down).

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10-19-2010, 09:30 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Then what about:

vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Maroon - Carter - Zherdev
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure, but Carter is a wing now. Yay!

It's also unclear to me whether Maroon could really contribute playing with Carter... whose game (for worse) is always moving at about 100 mph through the neutral zone.

Say what you will about Hartnell, but he has decent straight away speed and can keep up (before falling down).
Haha.

To me, I'd try to setup the lines to focus on Richards and Carter being point producers. Briere is a PP guy (much like Richie and Giroux) but Briere is the biggest liability down the middle at ES.

JVR-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Zherdev (like the Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line of Carters 46 goals past)
Maroon-Briere-Leino (Briere and Leino need a PWF, but something has got to give, in the new NHL it's hard to have 3 great lines)

This is using utilizing your biggest weapons in roles they are most comfortable with. Defending on defense matchups, I might swap JVR and Maroon, but ultimately I like this lineup.

It's kind of like rolling 3 top lines. Maroon still has limited ice time if you keep him off the PP and PK.

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10-19-2010, 10:04 AM
  #103
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The idea of Maroon (with his footspeed problems) playing on Briere's wing is really concerning to me defensively. Footspeed can to an extent be overcome defensively, but for most guys who don't have uber-high defensive instincts (Handzus leaps immediately to mind) it takes a bit before they can anticipate the NHL level well.

I would wager that Maroon gets beat to a LOT of loose pucks early on when he's adjusting.

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10-19-2010, 10:09 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The idea of Maroon (with his footspeed problems) playing on Briere's wing is really concerning to me defensively. Footspeed can to an extent be overcome defensively, but for most guys who don't have uber-high defensive instincts (Handzus leaps immediately to mind) it takes a bit before they can anticipate the NHL level well.

I would wager that Maroon gets beat to a LOT of loose pucks early on when he's adjusting.
That kind of adjustment happens to everyone once they get to the NHL. I'd rather Maroon on Briere's wing then someone like Powe or Nodl. They proved to us that they CAN'T be counted on. Powe has speed but no hands, and Nodl just sucks.

Fat Pat, if he can kinda fill a PWF role and work on his positioning and skating, could be more useful on that line then Powe or Nodl would.

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10-19-2010, 10:11 AM
  #105
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Im not sure who would work best on Briere's wing out of who we have available. We'd need someone decent defensively, maybe Powe? Maroon is definitely too slow and too weak on D to be there. Nodl might be okay, Carcillo mediocre.

JVR-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-ZHerdev
Powe-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Betts-Nodl



Stupid radical idea: Put Betts with Briere and Leino to play D

Leino-Betts-Briere
Carcillo-Powe-Nodl

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10-19-2010, 10:12 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
That kind of adjustment happens to everyone once they get to the NHL. I'd rather Maroon on Briere's wing then someone like Powe or Nodl. They proved to us that they CAN'T be counted on. Powe has speed but no hands, and Nodl just sucks.

Fat Pat, if he can kinda fill a PWF role and work on his positioning and skating, could be more useful on that line then Powe or Nodl would.
I agree... I'm just saying the adjustment period (which could take a bit) very well may be ugly as sin. Briere has problems defensively even with competent defensive players. Largely because he makes dumb decisions in the defensive zone (floating and not marking anyone, overly aggressive passes, etc.), but you're then going to have him trying to cover for a wing up the wall having his own struggles adjusting to this level.

Makes me nervous... especially when the entire value of Briere is for him to be on the other side of the ice.

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10-19-2010, 10:12 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
That kind of adjustment happens to everyone once they get to the NHL. I'd rather Maroon on Briere's wing then someone like Powe or Nodl. They proved to us that they CAN'T be counted on. Powe has speed but no hands, and Nodl just sucks.

Fat Pat, if he can kinda fill a PWF role and work on his positioning and skating, could be more useful on that line then Powe or Nodl would.
Maroon IS a PWF. He's an old school PWF: big, physical, slow, mean, and possesses good hands.

There's no doubt that he would provide a better 9th than Powe, Nodl, or Carcillo if he's not going to be overwhelmed by the NHL speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

Makes me nervous... especially when the entire value of Briere is for him to be on the other side of the ice.
This is why I'd rather do:

Maroon - Carter - Zherdev

than

Maroon - Briere - Leino

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10-19-2010, 10:14 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Im not sure who would work best on Briere's wing out of who we have available. We'd need someone decent defensively, maybe Powe? Maroon is definitely too slow and too weak on D to be there. Nodl might be okay, Carcillo mediocre.

JVR-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-ZHerdev
Powe-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Betts-Nodl



Stupid radical idea: Put Betts with Briere and Leino to play D

Leino-Betts-Briere
Carcillo-Powe-Nodl
I would actually be curious to see what Powe would do with Briere. Powe isn't anything special in the hands department, but he plays a simple game (you know where he'll be) and will crash the net creating lanes for Briere...

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10-19-2010, 10:15 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This is why I'd rather do:

Maroon - Carter - Zherdev

than

Maroon - Briere - Leino
Certainly better than putting him with Briere/Giroux, IMO. I'm just not sure Maroon could keep up with Carter... which is a big problem.

Of course, Maroon also need to keep it up in the AHL a little bit longer before I'll really care about taking it seriously with putting him in the roster.

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10-19-2010, 10:20 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would actually be curious to see what Powe would do with Briere. Powe isn't anything special in the hands department, but he plays a simple game (you know where he'll be) and will crash the net creating lanes for Briere...
Id be fine with it, and then at the deadline try to acquire a vet 3rd liner to replace him. A guy like Dvorak or Higgins from FLA could work.(or a guy like Cogliano that could use a change of scenery)

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10-19-2010, 10:21 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Id be fine with it, and then at the deadline try to acquire a vet 3rd liner to replace him. A guy like Dvorak or Higgins from FLA could work.(or a guy like Cogliano that could use a change of scenery)
Actually... you know what?

Powe-Giroux-Briere was one of our lines two years ago... and it was rather effective.

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10-19-2010, 10:23 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually... you know what?

Powe-Giroux-Briere was one of our lines two years ago... and it was rather effective.
vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Carter - Leino
Powe - Giroux - Briere
Carcillo - Betts - Shelley

I might be willing to try that.

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10-19-2010, 10:27 AM
  #113
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Wonder if they have any interest in Owen Nolan at this point? I wonder if nolan is deciding not play right now and pull a Roger Clemens move or just no interest in him. He had a solid year last year. Or God forbid they bring back Guerin.

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10-19-2010, 10:27 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
vanRiemsdyk - Richards - Zherdev
Hartnell - Carter - Leino
Powe - Giroux - Briere
Carcillo - Betts - Shelley

I might be willing to try that.
Id rather:

JVR-Richards-Giroux
hartnell-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Briere-Powe

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10-19-2010, 10:33 AM
  #115
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Hartnell--Carter--Zherdev

That scares me. The defense abilities on that line is a question mark for me.

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10-19-2010, 10:37 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Again, why should I have to ask?

Cartsiephan said that there was such talk that Maroon would be moved if he didn't have a strong season. So I would like to know where he gets these claims. Why should I have to prove that they don't exist? I haven't seen it. The burden of proof lies with him.



Again, like in the Leino situation, it appears as though the management made their own decision as to what they were looking for. Maroon may not have been that at the time, but he could be in the near future.

Just because they didn't give him a strong look doesn't mean he wouldn't succeed. Leino is the perfect example.

Since none of us know the real reason behind this motive, it's best not to speculate either way.



No. I actually watch Phantoms games when they don't collide with Flyers' games or something else I'm doing. Maroon has looked good.

Bottom line is Maroon has done nothing to prove he is as high as you are predicting on the depth chart. There were reports out of last year that Maroon was not only injured but also having problems being a consistent player and came under scrutiny by coaching.

Here is one tidbit from Meltzer whom I respect over anything you may claim, call part of it speculation but considering the organization sent both Legein and Maroon down without even a taste of a preseason game I would have to say it is pretty safe to say given Flyers past history with prospects that they would release him or trade him if he does not prove he belongs.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=30405
****

Did anyone else raise an eyebrow that the club sent down Patrick Maroon and Stefan Legein without either player dressing for a single preseason game with the big club? I interpret it this way: The organization is sending a message to the two players that others are higher on the depth chart now (Testwuide, Holmstrom, Nodl and Kalinski) and they had better impress with the Phantoms if they are going to earn a callup.

This is especially true for Maroon, who entered camp last year being promoted by Holmgren and former coach John Stevens as a player with a shot at cracking the big club. Injuries and a so-so second AHL season pushed him down a peg on the depth chart last season, and he did little to stand out in the rookie portion of training camp to stand out as a player set to challenge for the big club.

In Legein's case, the player struggled down the stretch drive last year and it may have been a case where there were too many players in camp with similar NHL projections -- i.e., an "energy" role player at the top level.

At any rate, the 2010-11 season is going to be a critical one for both players if their NHL aspirations are to be realized, at least in Philadelphia.

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10-19-2010, 10:46 AM
  #117
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the GM did a poor job constructing this team with how they want to play. they dont have the needed parts. You cant even put Richards in pseudo shut down role as they dont have the wingers to even do that imo. Would love to see Richards in that type of role as that is where he thrives and creates a lot of his offense. There is going to be constant shuffling until someone is called up from the phantoms and can soldify a top 9 role or they make a trade.

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10-19-2010, 10:54 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Hartnell--Carter--Zherdev

That scares me. The defense abilities on that line is a question mark for me.
Hartnell-Carter-Lupul did fine, and Hartnell and Carter had career years

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10-19-2010, 10:57 AM
  #119
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quadruple shift Shelley on every line..


Shelley - Richards - Carter

Shelley - Briere - Leino

Shelley - Giroux - JVR

Shelley - Betts - Zherdev



but
honestly, I don't know what the lines should be.

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10-19-2010, 11:10 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
the GM did a poor job constructing this team with how they want to play. they dont have the needed parts. You cant even put Richards in pseudo shut down role as they dont have the wingers to even do that imo. Would love to see Richards in that type of role as that is where he thrives and creates a lot of his offense. There is going to be constant shuffling until someone is called up from the phantoms and can soldify a top 9 role or they make a trade.
This is totally it. You can get 20 players who on paper are the best you can find, but once you attempt to put them into roles on the team they are not familiar with it becomes a problem. Richards could be an excellent 3rd line center who gets time on the PK and PP.

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10-19-2010, 11:19 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Maroon IS a PWF. He's an old school PWF: big, physical, slow, mean, and possesses good hands.

There's no doubt that he would provide a better 9th than Powe, Nodl, or Carcillo if he's not going to be overwhelmed by the NHL speed.



This is why I'd rather do:

Maroon - Carter - Zherdev

than

Maroon - Briere - Leino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Certainly better than putting him with Briere/Giroux, IMO. I'm just not sure Maroon could keep up with Carter... which is a big problem.

Of course, Maroon also need to keep it up in the AHL a little bit longer before I'll really care about taking it seriously with putting him in the roster.
Ok. I like this train of thought.

How about

JVR-Richards-Giroux
Maroon-Carter-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino

Keeps together everyone's fav HBL line. It doesnt matter if Maroon can keep up with Carter since Carter would never let Maroon touch the puck anyway, haha.

This leaves our JVR-Richie-Giroux line as a question mark. However, I see a lot of skill here, and if JVR is going to break out, this would be the best opportunity to do it. I think the puck would mostly be bouncing between Richie and Giroux here, with JVR working on his positioning away from the puck. Trying to get open for shots and playing in front of the net and such.

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10-19-2010, 11:32 AM
  #122
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[QUOTE=Chris Shafer;28401420]Maroon IS a PWF. He's an old school PWF: big, physical, slow, mean, and possesses good hands.

There's no doubt that he would provide a better 9th than Powe, Nodl, or Carcillo if he's not going to be overwhelmed by the NHL speed.

/QUOTE]

I have not seen any phantoms games this year, so unless he totally changed, Maroon isnt mean or or all that physical. He is/was weak along the boards. Well the flyers brass disagress or he would be here, though they hsould give him a shot to see what he can do as the others cant cut it.

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10-19-2010, 11:32 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post


JVR-Richards-Giroux
Nodl-Carter-Zherdev
Hartnell-Briere-Leino


.

Maroon is not going to be on this roster, let's just stop with the Maroon fluffing. And of the choices avalailable I prefer Powe, Kalinski, Nodl all above Maroon. His weakness is skating, that is not something you can easily overcome.

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10-19-2010, 11:36 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Bottom line is Maroon has done nothing to prove he is as high as you are predicting on the depth chart.
Except dominating the OHL, getting MUCH better at skating, having a strong rookie season at the AHL, playing well at camps (despite last year when he was hurt), playing well in his extremely limited preseason appearances, and starting off the season as the Phantoms' best player?

And he's done nothing to even remotely suggest that he would not be a capable 9th forward in a role that we particularly need, which he happens to fit the mold of?

Not sure what you're suggesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
There were reports out of last year that Maroon was not only injured but also having problems being a consistent player and came under scrutiny by coaching.
Yeah. I read those reports too. It's hard to be consistent on that disaster of a team. It's pretty much everyone on that team's fault for not living up to expectations.

But coming under scrutiny of the coaching staff? The same staff that many feel is severely misusing our prospects at the AHL level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Here is one tidbit from Meltzer whom I respect over anything you may claim, call part of it speculation but considering the organization sent both Legein and Maroon down without even a taste of a preseason game I would have to say it is pretty safe to say given Flyers past history with prospects that they would release him or trade him if he does not prove he belongs.
Okay, let's hear what Meltzer's got to say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Did anyone else raise an eyebrow that the club sent down Patrick Maroon and Stefan Legein without either player dressing for a single preseason game with the big club? I interpret it this way: The organization is sending a message to the two players that others are higher on the depth chart now (Testwuide, Holmstrom, Nodl and Kalinski) and they had better impress with the Phantoms if they are going to earn a callup.
Agreed. Nodl, Kalinski, Testwuide, and Holmstrom, though limited in offensive capabilities, were performing very well at their respective duties and in their respective roles.

I don't agree with Testwuide and Holmstrom because it seemed like Laviolette was throwing long looks at all of the newer guys, but definitely with Nodl and Kalinski. Those are two players who have made appearances on the roster before. They're hard-working.

So part of what Meltzer is saying I absolutely agree with. The organization was not impressed by Maroon or Legein's season last year. They probably did tell them to get their act together. I wouldn't be surprised if they informed them ahead of time that they were both getting sent down regardless of camp because the organization wanted to see a more sustained effort from both of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
This is especially true for Maroon, who entered camp last year being promoted by Holmgren and former coach John Stevens as a player with a shot at cracking the big club. Injuries and a so-so second AHL season pushed him down a peg on the depth chart last season, and he did little to stand out in the rookie portion of training camp to stand out as a player set to challenge for the big club.
Again agreed, except Maroon looked very strong in the rookie camp. Not standout-ish in the way that JVR stood out, but he was very solid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
In Legein's case, the player struggled down the stretch drive last year and it may have been a case where there were too many players in camp with similar NHL projections -- i.e., an "energy" role player at the top level.
Legein is going to need more time. This is a guy who quit hockey and is only one season back into the swing of things. I don't think there was ever much of a shot for him to make the team. I think the Flyers are just going to be patient with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
At any rate, the 2010-11 season is going to be a critical one for both players if their NHL aspirations are to be realized, at least in Philadelphia.
Every season is pretty critical. Maroon and Nodl are both in contract years as well.

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10-19-2010, 11:37 AM
  #125
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Id rather:

JVR-Richards-Giroux
hartnell-Carter-Zherdev
Leino-Briere-Powe
This is what I'd like to see as well.

Carcillo - Betts - Nödl as the 4th line.

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