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Old
10-19-2010, 11:38 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
You guys are missing the point. And this may not happen so I could very well be off here, but if they are in first place, I don't care if he is making $10 million and playing 20 seconds. It is too early to call it a bad signing. Yeah, it would be nice if it wasn't so much, and I am not saying it is a good signing. But it is not worth complaining about if the team is winning. In January if the team is struggling and Shelley is riding the pine or playing like crap, then yes it was a bad signing. But if they are in first place in January, who the **** cares how much money he is making? Winning is all that matters.
its a horrible signing. It was then, it is now and it will be viewed as a horrible signing they day he plays his last game as a Flyer. He is not Laperriere. Not even on his best day could he be him. Hes getting paid more then Leino, Powe and JVR.
1.1 per to act like a big goof for 4 minutes a night for the next 3 seasons?
**** that.

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10-19-2010, 12:45 PM
  #77
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Somehow I'm not surprised that someone rushed to the defense of Jody Shelley.

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10-19-2010, 04:02 PM
  #78
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Even if shelly doubles his career high in goals, gets in 1 fight per game in which he knocks the guy out with one punch and takes no dumb penalties all year(already happened actually), it's still a dumb signing.

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10-19-2010, 04:21 PM
  #79
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Wait is Shelly a dumb signing or Shelley his horrible skating alter ego?

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10-19-2010, 04:29 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Somehow I'm not surprised that someone rushed to the defense of Jody Shelley.
Maybe I wasn't very clear. I wasn't really saying this is a good signing. I'm just saying that as long as we are winning, it isn't a bad signing. If you are winning games, it doesn't matter if there is a player on the team making too much money or not playing up to his contract. The only thing that matters is winning. I doubt he steps foot on the ice in the postseason, and even if he does, again, if the Flyers are winning who gives a ****?

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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
its a horrible signing. It was then, it is now and it will be viewed as a horrible signing they day he plays his last game as a Flyer. He is not Laperriere. Not even on his best day could he be him. Hes getting paid more then Leino, Powe and JVR.
1.1 per to act like a big goof for 4 minutes a night for the next 3 seasons?
**** that.
Again, it doesn't matter how much money he is making or how long he is on the ice as long as the team is winning. And in reality, who is he really taking time away from? would the $300k the Flyers would have saved by giving the roster spot to a younger guy have kept Gagne here? Would that younger player (or a different signing) really be making a bigger impact than Shelley? Again, I'm not saying this was a good move (and I have said in other posts that it wasn't), I am just saying that as long as this team is winning and Shelley isn't costing the Flyers any games, who cares?

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10-19-2010, 04:31 PM
  #81
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i wonder what shelleys reaction was when his agent told him he signed him for over a million. he was probably like... "lol... word?"

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10-19-2010, 04:59 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Maybe I wasn't very clear. I wasn't really saying this is a good signing. I'm just saying that as long as we are winning, it isn't a bad signing. If you are winning games, it doesn't matter if there is a player on the team making too much money or not playing up to his contract. The only thing that matters is winning. I doubt he steps foot on the ice in the postseason, and even if he does, again, if the Flyers are winning who gives a ****?



Again, it doesn't matter how much money he is making or how long he is on the ice as long as the team is winning. And in reality, who is he really taking time away from? would the $300k the Flyers would have saved by giving the roster spot to a younger guy have kept Gagne here? Would that younger player (or a different signing) really be making a bigger impact than Shelley? Again, I'm not saying this was a good move (and I have said in other posts that it wasn't), I am just saying that as long as this team is winning and Shelley isn't costing the Flyers any games, who cares?
Shelly playing 5 minutes a night and us winning are 2 different things. There is no correlation between the two. With or without Shelly we are gonna win or lose games. Him playing only a few minutes on the 4th line is not a good thing. Our 4th line needs play a solid checking and defensive minded game. Powe and Betts do that while playing on the pk. Shelly doesnt. I think having a more defensive winger who can play on the pk on the buttom line would greatly increase our chances of winning. I think having him on the ice decreases it.

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10-19-2010, 05:21 PM
  #83
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Drink, every time you claim we're missing the point, you dig yourself a bigger hole and/or moving further from the point.


Here is all that matters:

Jody Shelley is making $1.1M for 3 years

Jody Shelley is averaging 4:13 per game, while Blair Betts averages 11:20 per game to kill off his penalties.

Jody Shelley is averaging less time after 5 games this season - per game - than he has his previous 8 years in the league.

Jody Shelley is roughly 21% of the reason (based on salary) Simon Gagne isn't here.

Jody Shelley is 100% of the reason Arron Asham isn't still here doing his job better for 2/3 of the price.


Last edited by GKJ: 10-19-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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10-19-2010, 05:51 PM
  #84
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ruins our ability to roll 4 lines.

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10-19-2010, 06:12 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Jody Shelley - Good signing!

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10-19-2010, 06:58 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Shelly playing 5 minutes a night and us winning are 2 different things. There is no correlation between the two. With or without Shelly we are gonna win or lose games. Him playing only a few minutes on the 4th line is not a good thing. Our 4th line needs play a solid checking and defensive minded game. Powe and Betts do that while playing on the pk. Shelly doesnt. I think having a more defensive winger who can play on the pk on the buttom line would greatly increase our chances of winning. I think having him on the ice decreases it.
Again, missing the point. I am not saying we are winning because of Shelley or that having him increases our chances of winning. What I am saying is that IF the Flyers are winning, it doesn't matter how much he is making or how much he is playing because the Flyers are winning. Just like last year when Leighton was winning games, it doesn't matter how "terrible" he was because the team was winning. Yeah it would be nice if the Flyers had a better player instead of Shelley, but at this point, things seem to be going ok. It's five games in. I could be 100% wrong, but the team looks good to me despite Shelley playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Drink, every time you claim we're missing the point, you dig yourself a bigger hole and/or moving further from the point.


Here is all that matters:

Jody Shelley is making $1.1M for 3 years

Jody Shelley is averaging 4:13 per game, while Blair Betts averages 11:20 per game to kill off his penalties.

Jody Shelley is averaging less time after 5 games this season - per game - than he has his previous 8 years in the league.

Jody Shelley is roughly 21% of the reason (based on salary) Simon Gagne isn't here.

Jody Shelley is 100% of the reason Arron Asham isn't still here doing his job better for 2/3 of the price.
That isn't all that matters though. Winning is all that matters. Asham playing on the 4th line wouldn't change this team too much. Yeah, it would make the team a little better, but it's not like the team is doomed because Shelley is playing 4 minutes a game instead of Asham playing 10 minutes. As far as Shelley being 21% of Gagne leaving, that argument doesn't really hold water. Yeah, technically he took part of his salary, but in the overall scheme, Homer decided there were more important things (defense) and a cheaper offensive replacement (Zherdev). Shelley was incidental to these things.

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10-19-2010, 07:08 PM
  #87
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just because the flyers are winning doesnt mean shelley was a good signing.

that's like saying poop is tasty just because it isn't currently in your mouth.

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10-19-2010, 07:21 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Again, missing the point. I am not saying we are winning because of Shelley or that having him increases our chances of winning. What I am saying is that IF the Flyers are winning, it doesn't matter how much he is making or how much he is playing because the Flyers are winning. Just like last year when Leighton was winning games, it doesn't matter how "terrible" he was because the team was winning. Yeah it would be nice if the Flyers had a better player instead of Shelley, but at this point, things seem to be going ok. It's five games in. I could be 100% wrong, but the team looks good to me despite Shelley playing.
So.. in other words all the problems go away if we are winning? Leighton and Shelly are two totally different circumstances also. Leighton was needed for a roll to win. Shelly isnt needed in a role to win. So that theory is out the door.

I understand what your saying but its very narrow sighted. Its like saying, say we beat a team 4-0 BUT we lost Richards, Carter, Giroux and Pronger due to injury. Would you still be like "well atleast we won"? This problem goes far beyond just winning. Having Shelly in or out wont affect anything.

See I'd rather INCREASE our chances of winning, then saying "well its ok since we are winning". I think we would look EVEN BETTER without Shelly.

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10-19-2010, 07:35 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
just because the flyers are winning doesnt mean shelley was a good signing.

that's like saying poop is tasty just because it isn't currently in your mouth.
Maybe if you had read the post you would have seen that I never said it was a good signing, just that it doesn't matter if we are winning.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So.. in other words all the problems go away if we are winning? Leighton and Shelly are two totally different circumstances also. Leighton was needed for a roll to win. Shelly isnt needed in a role to win. So that theory is out the door.

I understand what your saying but its very narrow sighted. Its like saying, say we beat a team 4-0 BUT we lost Richards, Carter, Giroux and Pronger due to injury. Would you still be like "well atleast we won"? This problem goes far beyond just winning. Having Shelly in or out wont affect anything.

See I'd rather INCREASE our chances of winning, then saying "well its ok since we are winning". I think we would look EVEN BETTER without Shelly.
Yes, all the problems do go away if we are winning. This is a long way away, but if the Flyers win the Cup with Leighton in net and Shelley playing on the 4th line, what is the point in complaining about the bad contracts, etc? Losing key players in a loss is 100% completely different from winning with a bad player with a bad contract. It is likely that losing Richards, Carter, etc would lead to losses. Keeping Shelley in the lineup at this point, hasn't really hindered this team that I have seen.

I agree that it would be better to have someone better in that position. I have said that from the beginning. But it really isn't hurting this team to have Shelley there. It isn't really helping, but again, Asham, young player, different sub $1 mil player, etc would not all of the sudden take this team to a different level.

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10-19-2010, 07:44 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Again, missing the point. I am not saying we are winning because of Shelley or that having him increases our chances of winning. What I am saying is that IF the Flyers are winning, it doesn't matter how much he is making or how much he is playing because the Flyers are winning. Just like last year when Leighton was winning games, it doesn't matter how "terrible" he was because the team was winning. Yeah it would be nice if the Flyers had a better player instead of Shelley, but at this point, things seem to be going ok. It's five games in. I could be 100% wrong, but the team looks good to me despite Shelley playing.



That isn't all that matters though. Winning is all that matters. Asham playing on the 4th line wouldn't change this team too much. Yeah, it would make the team a little better, but it's not like the team is doomed because Shelley is playing 4 minutes a game instead of Asham playing 10 minutes. As far as Shelley being 21% of Gagne leaving, that argument doesn't really hold water. Yeah, technically he took part of his salary, but in the overall scheme, Homer decided there were more important things (defense) and a cheaper offensive replacement (Zherdev). Shelley was incidental to these things.
$1.1M for a 4th line player playing 4 minutes a game is not proper use of assets, not proper use of your salary cap, and not proper use of your personnel. You could be able to have 2 fighters for what you're paying for one...and at 3 years no less. This, for someone who won't play in the playoffs. If we're only going to use 11 forwards, then give me a 7th defenseman to go with them.

Of course it doesn't hold water. If it did, it might **** up your argument. You're not bringing anything to the table, and last time I looked, we only won 2 out of the 5 games, so, no, we're not winning. And no, the team doesn't really look that great in doing so. Carle is back to turning the puck over regularly, Boucher is back to letting in weak goals in tight games, Hartnell is back to being retarded, and Leino has been more flash and less substance thus far.

And if it makes the team "a little better" that's exactly what should be done.

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10-19-2010, 07:51 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Maybe if you had read the post you would have seen that I never said it was a good signing, just that it doesn't matter if we are winning.
it matters greatly. just look to this future offseason, when his retarded cap hit is going to make signing people like giroux interesting.

fine, i'll revise what i said. its like saying "the poop doesnt taste bad because it isn't in my mouth."


just because there's a potentially very temporary upside to the situation, doesn't change the inherent properties of something. no matter what happens, poop tastes bad. likewise, no matter what happens, the shelley signing is, and always will be, awful.

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10-19-2010, 08:17 PM
  #92
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This might be the most retarded argument I've ever seen anyone make Dark, ever.

You admit that Shelley is a bad signing (which it is)...you admit that replacing Shelley with some quality depth guys like Asham would be improvement...yet you're arguing (for whatever insane reason) that, if we were winning, the signing suddenly isn't bad?

What kind of insane, backwards logic is that? Going by that logic, every team with a winning record doesn't have any flaws and shouldn't try to improve because "it doesn't matter if they're winning". You really don't see the pointlessness in the argument or the flawed logic in that?

By the way, we aren't winning. We have a bad record as it is and we've been absolute **** for the last two games.

The bottom-line is that Shelley is bad cap management, bad asset management, and a waste of a roster spot. He ruins our ability to roll four lines and he's a waste of cap space.

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10-19-2010, 08:44 PM
  #93
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Also, when injuries start happening, and they're going to happen, and Shelley may or may not have to play more, he is going to probably or will absolutely turn up the fail.

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10-19-2010, 08:55 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Yeah he was going after him all game. We need to protect our star players and that is why Shelley is here.
I'll take the original broad street formula: 12 forwards and 6 defensemen who'll collectively maul any player that so much as looks at their captain wrong.

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10-19-2010, 09:34 PM
  #95
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holmgren sucks

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...nd-of-ice-time

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10-19-2010, 10:02 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
it matters greatly. just look to this future offseason, when his retarded cap hit is going to make signing people like giroux interesting.

fine, i'll revise what i said. its like saying "the poop doesnt taste bad because it isn't in my mouth."


just because there's a potentially very temporary upside to the situation, doesn't change the inherent properties of something. no matter what happens, poop tastes bad. likewise, no matter what happens, the shelley signing is, and always will be, awful.
The better poop related anology would be that I don't care if the poop tastes bad because it isn't in my mouth. That is more like what I am saying. Jody Shelley's contract/ice time/etc doesn't matter if the team wins.

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
This might be the most retarded argument I've ever seen anyone make Dark, ever.

You admit that Shelley is a bad signing (which it is)...you admit that replacing Shelley with some quality depth guys like Asham would be improvement...yet you're arguing (for whatever insane reason) that, if we were winning, the signing suddenly isn't bad?

What kind of insane, backwards logic is that? Going by that logic, every team with a winning record doesn't have any flaws and shouldn't try to improve because "it doesn't matter if they're winning". You really don't see the pointlessness in the argument or the flawed logic in that?

By the way, we aren't winning. We have a bad record as it is and we've been absolute **** for the last two games.

The bottom-line is that Shelley is bad cap management, bad asset management, and a waste of a roster spot. He ruins our ability to roll four lines and he's a waste of cap space.
It isn't backwards logic. I'm not saying that it is a GOOD signing. I am saying it doesn't matter if the team is winning. I know the Flyers aren't undefeated, but it is five games into the season. This goes back to my initial argument that it is too early to unequivocally say any of the moves are good or bad. If Shelley gets 0 goals and averages 2 minutes a game over 82 games, but the team is in first place, then who the **** cares what his salary is? What is so hard to understand about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Also, when injuries start happening, and they're going to happen, and Shelley may or may not have to play more, he is going to probably or will absolutely turn up the fail.
And if that happens then I'll be on board with everyone saying that he shouldn't have been signed. But that hasn't happened and in the five games that the team has played I haven't (and I don't think anyone else has) said "Man, if we didn't have Jody Shelley out there we would be undefeated."

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10-19-2010, 10:14 PM
  #97
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even if the flyers dominate this year holmgren is still the gm and will continue to make awful decisions in the future

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10-19-2010, 10:22 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Here are the cap hits this season for some comparable players on rival teams.

Boogaard (NYR)- $1.75 Million
4 year deal for a guy who averages about 50 games a season.

Brashear (NYR)- $1.4 Million
Last year of a 2 year deal, he will be 39 when its done and will likely be buried in the AHL.

Shelley (Philly)- $1.1 Million
3 year deal ending just after turning 37.

Orr (Toronto)- $1.0 Million
4 year deal signed last year. He's coming off a career high 6 points this season.

Thornton (Boston)- .8125 Million
2 year deal ending just before he turns 35.

Goddard (Pitt)- $.750 Million
This is the last year of a 3 year deal. The cap has gone up and when he signed the deal he had only had 1 full NHL season as an established heavyweight. I'd be shocked if he didnt sign for around 1 Million next year.


The average Cap hit for those guys is 1.135 Million(Just above Shelley). The thing about those cap hits is the fact that most of them dont play every game so in the end is Shelley gets 41 games and Powe signs for 700k and gets 41 games that's a 900k cap hit for a 4th liner. Not really a bad deal.

I really think they want Carcillo to be more of an agitator that can play 3rd line minutes and chip in some more points rather than trying to be the teams fighter. You remove some of the fights from Carcillo and all of Asham's fights since they aren't resigning him and limit Lappy's fighting to prevent his skull from caving in(again) and there is a pretty big void in who will handle the teams dirty work, which is where Shelley comes in.

I personally would have liked them to handle other business(goalie) and take care of this later but they clearly dont think Leighton is too bad so lets stop complaining about this and get back to Leighton and Gagne.
No, dude, that is totally spurious to say that the list you posted somehow mitigates the stupidity of the signing.

If you take out the money-drunk Rangers and their signing of a former heavyweight now unfit for ECHL duty and a current heavyweight overpaid supremely to goon it up, Shelley becomes the highest paid player on the list, the oldest player on the list and the player with the most years remaining on his contract (tied with Orr, I guess).

That suggests that the signing was not a good value. And other than Brashear, those guys dress pretty regularly.

It's not the end of the world but to me you could get a goon or a serviceable energy guy for less money (safely say 400K less) and a commitment of fewer years, too. You could also get a younger guy with half a chance to improve, of the Rangers goonish dudes I think Prust is the best and that is the kind of guy I'd have like to see with the Flyers.

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10-19-2010, 10:22 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
And if that happens then I'll be on board with everyone saying that he shouldn't have been signed. But that hasn't happened and in the five games that the team has played I haven't (and I don't think anyone else has) said "Man, if we didn't have Jody Shelley out there we would be undefeated."
Well, except you already had a guy who did decent filling in when he needed, who apparently wasn't good enough for that role according to the esteemed general manager, but somehow is good enough for the Penguins.

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10-19-2010, 10:51 PM
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This is the dumbest freaking thread of all time. Seriously, Drink? Seriously?! You're just way too shortsighted, trying to prove a point that probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

If I go murder my neighbors and steal their big screen TV - but never get caught - does that make it okay because I get to watch TV now?

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