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Jody Shelley - Good signing!

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Old
10-19-2010, 10:51 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Well, except you already had a guy who did decent filling in when he needed, who apparently wasn't good enough for that role according to the esteemed general manager, but somehow is good enough for the Penguins.
I assume you are talking about Aaron Asham? While agree he is a better player, the difference isn't something that really changes this team. Shelley's 4 minutes vs. Asham's 10 minutes is not something that this team is really going to affected by. If they are, in fact, affected by this "swap" of players then there are larger problems this team needs to deal with. When the top three lines get rolling, Shelley's presence on the fourth line will not be an issue and if the top three lines don't ever get rolling, Asham's presence on that fourth line wouldn't save this team.

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10-19-2010, 10:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I assume you are talking about Aaron Asham? While agree he is a better player, the difference isn't something that really changes this team. Shelley's 4 minutes vs. Asham's 10 minutes is not something that this team is really going to affected by. If they are, in fact, affected by this "swap" of players then there are larger problems this team needs to deal with. When the top three lines get rolling, Shelley's presence on the fourth line will not be an issue and if the top three lines don't ever get rolling, Asham's presence on that fourth line wouldn't save this team.
6 minutes is a lot, especially when that 6 minutes is going to someone even better when you consider what we shouldn't be paying Shelley and what we're not paying Arron Asham...

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10-19-2010, 11:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
6 minutes is a lot, especially when that 6 minutes is going to someone even better when you consider what we shouldn't be paying Shelley and what we're not paying Arron Asham...
I would agree with this if it were in the context of defenseman (like last season with Bartulis and Parent/Krajicek), but it is one player on the fourth line. Those guys are already fighting for minutes because of how stacked the top three lines are. On a night to night bases, those six minutes that Asham would have made up will not be difficult to disperse amongst the top three lines, and again, if that is an issue...one player on the fourth line only playing 4 minutes a night, then the team has far bigger problems. If the entire fourth line was only playing that much. Or if one of the top three lines was only mustering that much because they aren't that good. Ok start sounding the alarm. But one player on the fourth line of a team with three stacked top lines is not an issue. Much like a suspect goalie is not an issue on a team with a high powered offense and a shutdown defense...but let's not get into that. And now I sleep. Good night, HFBoards.

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10-19-2010, 11:12 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The better poop related anology would be that I don't care if the poop tastes bad because it isn't in my mouth. That is more like what I am saying. Jody Shelley's contract/ice time/etc doesn't matter if the team wins.



It isn't backwards logic. I'm not saying that it is a GOOD signing. I am saying it doesn't matter if the team is winning. I know the Flyers aren't undefeated, but it is five games into the season. This goes back to my initial argument that it is too early to unequivocally say any of the moves are good or bad. If Shelley gets 0 goals and averages 2 minutes a game over 82 games, but the team is in first place, then who the **** cares what his salary is? What is so hard to understand about that?



And if that happens then I'll be on board with everyone saying that he shouldn't have been signed. But that hasn't happened and in the five games that the team has played I haven't (and I don't think anyone else has) said "Man, if we didn't have Jody Shelley out there we would be undefeated."
Dude its not that hard man. You can not think within a certain time frame. We need to resign Giroux and Carter this up and coming season. That 600k can be VERY VERY VERYYY useful. It might even be the difference in signing or losing one of them. Even if we are winning, it doesnt matter at all. His signing hurts us now AND in the future. We can be in first place, but him being on the team affects the teams overall play.

Being honest, its more like you like the guy and just trying to find a way to defend him.

Let me just say, we can go 79-2-1 this season, but if Shelly averaged around 4 minutes a game, and has barely any points, Id still be pissed we sign him, and being honest I tihnk 99% of the other people would also.

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10-19-2010, 11:13 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The better poop related anology would be that I don't care if the poop tastes bad because it isn't in my mouth. That is more like what I am saying. Jody Shelley's contract/ice time/etc doesn't matter if the team wins.
The best poop analogy, is that with the shelley signing, homer is shoving poop down our throats.

also, the team isn't winning so i guess that means, using your own logic, that this signing is bad.

and if you really think that after watching asham for a season, and from the crap we've seen from shelley for 5 games + preseason, that 10 minutes of asham vs 4 of shelley isn't a big difference....you must be drunk, and suffering from a head injury.

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10-19-2010, 11:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I would agree with this if it were in the context of defenseman (like last season with Bartulis and Parent/Krajicek), but it is one player on the fourth line. Those guys are already fighting for minutes because of how stacked the top three lines are. On a night to night bases, those six minutes that Asham would have made up will not be difficult to disperse amongst the top three lines, and again, if that is an issue...one player on the fourth line only playing 4 minutes a night, then the team has far bigger problems. If the entire fourth line was only playing that much. Or if one of the top three lines was only mustering that much because they aren't that good. Ok start sounding the alarm. But one player on the fourth line of a team with three stacked top lines is not an issue. Much like a suspect goalie is not an issue on a team with a high powered offense and a shutdown defense...but let's not get into that. And now I sleep. Good night, HFBoards.
Ok. Let's see you justify Ville Leino being paid less than Jody Shelley.

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10-19-2010, 11:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Ok. Let's see you justify Ville Leino being paid less than Jody Shelley.
Or Blair Betts.

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Old
10-20-2010, 12:23 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


Again, it doesn't matter how much money he is making or how long he is on the ice as long as the team is winning. And in reality, who is he really taking time away from? would the $300k the Flyers would have saved by giving the roster spot to a younger guy have kept Gagne here? Would that younger player (or a different signing) really be making a bigger impact than Shelley? Again, I'm not saying this was a good move (and I have said in other posts that it wasn't), I am just saying that as long as this team is winning and Shelley isn't costing the Flyers any games, who cares?
it most definitely matters how much Shelley is making when you are talking about a team that was just a few hundred thousand under the cap before the recent LTIR's. This has nothing to do with Gagne, or the Meszaros trade. This was a terrible signing by Holmgren. 1.1 million for a guy that may end up sitting 25-30 games or more. Thats called valuable cap space being wasted. I would be saying the same think about Matt Walker but hes on LTIR till January.

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10-20-2010, 12:28 AM
  #109
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His entire argument is basically "it doesn't matter if we're winning".

If he can't see the massive flaws in that then there's nothing that we can say to him really.

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10-20-2010, 05:59 AM
  #110
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Shelley + Walker+ Leighton= >4 million

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10-20-2010, 06:17 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Ok. Let's see you justify Ville Leino being paid less than Jody Shelley.
He's the 8th highest forward on the team in terms of cap hit. That's ****ing disgusting (7th highest if you don't count Lappy who can't play).

His usefulness as a forward within the organization should see him about 22nd on that list. It makes me ****ing sick that this guy plays 4 minutes a night, lays a huge turd at centre ice during those 4 minutes, makes our 4th line completely ineffective as a checking line, and all while you see Betts, Powe, Leino, and Carcillo bust their ass for this team for less money. I mean, we're scratching Carcillo who can play a solid 10 minutes on the 4th line every night to justify this *******'s salary.

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10-20-2010, 06:21 AM
  #112
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I'll take Claude Giroux for $7.94 per second, Alex.

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10-20-2010, 06:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Ok. Let's see you justify Ville Leino being paid less than Jody Shelley.
thems the rules. one was a free agent and oen wasnt. Add in a dumb GM. Leiopn hasnt "paid" his dues. I am in no way justifying Shelleys salary.

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10-20-2010, 07:35 AM
  #114
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Come on people. You really aren't reading my posts, I guess. I NEVER SAID SHELLEY DESERVES THE MONEY HE GETS OR THAT HE WAS A GOOD SIGNING OR EVEN THAT I LIKE THE SIGNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am simply saying that as long as the team wins, it doesn't matter how much money he is making BECAUSE THE TEAM IS WINNING! If they win a cup this year, it won't be BECAUSE of Shelley and I never said he makes this team better. I know that his cap hit isn't good. I know that he only plays a few minutes a game. What I am saying is that if the team wins, it flat out doesn't matter. If the Flyers bring home a Cup, they can sign anyone they want to play for 1 second a game and get $10 million a year for it. I understand that Shelley's salary could potentially mean that Giroux or Carter will be more difficult to sign (although this argument isn't really that great. If Shelley isn't getting $1.1 mil, someone else would be getting between $500k-$1.1 mil anyway so it really doesn't save that much money). But if the Flyers win the Cup, I don't care if they have to let Carter, Giroux, JVR, Richards, etc walk. I'd trade it all for a Cup.

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10-20-2010, 07:40 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on people. You really aren't reading my posts, I guess. I NEVER SAID SHELLEY DESERVES THE MONEY HE GETS OR THAT HE WAS A GOOD SIGNING OR EVEN THAT I LIKE THE SIGNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am simply saying that as long as the team wins, it doesn't matter how much money he is making BECAUSE THE TEAM IS WINNING! If they win a cup this year, it won't be BECAUSE of Shelley and I never said he makes this team better. I know that his cap hit isn't good. I know that he only plays a few minutes a game. What I am saying is that if the team wins, it flat out doesn't matter. If the Flyers bring home a Cup, they can sign anyone they want to play for 1 second a game and get $10 million a year for it. I understand that Shelley's salary could potentially mean that Giroux or Carter will be more difficult to sign (although this argument isn't really that great. If Shelley isn't getting $1.1 mil, someone else would be getting between $500k-$1.1 mil anyway so it really doesn't save that much money). But if the Flyers win the Cup, I don't care if they have to let Carter, Giroux, JVR, Richards, etc walk. I'd trade it all for a Cup.
People are reading what you're saying.

The bolded is a BS statement... and that's the response you're getting.

The Jody Shelley signing, amongst others, is a clear indication of the problems with the intellectual approach of this team under Paul Holmgren. Winning or losing.

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10-20-2010, 07:57 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Dude its not that hard man. You can not think within a certain time frame. We need to resign Giroux and Carter this up and coming season. That 600k can be VERY VERY VERYYY useful. It might even be the difference in signing or losing one of them. Even if we are winning, it doesnt matter at all. His signing hurts us now AND in the future. We can be in first place, but him being on the team affects the teams overall play.

Being honest, its more like you like the guy and just trying to find a way to defend him.

Let me just say, we can go 79-2-1 this season, but if Shelly averaged around 4 minutes a game, and has barely any points, Id still be pissed we sign him, and being honest I tihnk 99% of the other people would also.
Simple solution. You trade Carter and keep Shelley. He serves a purpose but the reason why the cap issue is in such disarray has nothing to do with Shelley and everything to do with the moves Homer did/did not make during the offseason. Five games in and we give the fwds who are not scoring a pass but yet a guy whose sole purpose is to come and and give a couple shifts and take on Orr or ????? if they start to take on an instigator role with our star players or goalie. We should be more concerned about what we are not getting from the guys who are making $5mill and not showing up on the scoring sheet over Jody frigging Shelley.

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10-20-2010, 07:59 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
He's the 8th highest forward on the team in terms of cap hit. That's ****ing disgusting (7th highest if you don't count Lappy who can't play).

His usefulness as a forward within the organization should see him about 22nd on that list. It makes me ****ing sick that this guy plays 4 minutes a night, lays a huge turd at centre ice during those 4 minutes, makes our 4th line completely ineffective as a checking line, and all while you see Betts, Powe, Leino, and Carcillo bust their ass for this team for less money. I mean, we're scratching Carcillo who can play a solid 10 minutes on the 4th line every night to justify this *******'s salary.
Meszaros is higher paid than Carle and Coburn, so what is your point? Carcillo makes equal money and I have not really seen him do much with more minutes.

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10-20-2010, 08:11 AM
  #118
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Meszaros is higher paid than Carle and Coburn, so what is your point? Carcillo makes equal money and I have not really seen him do much with more minutes.
Using Meszaros and Carle is a little different because we didn't give them those contracts. I think we have signed every single one of those forwards to a contract, except Leino (?). Holmgren wasn't forced to give Shelley that money and he didn't trade for it. He offered it himself. On July 1st.

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10-20-2010, 08:13 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or Blair Betts.
I think I tried him.

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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Using Meszaros and Carle is a little different because we didn't give them those contracts. I think we have signed every single one of those forwards to a contract, except Leino (?). Holmgren wasn't forced to give Shelley that money and he didn't trade for it. He offered it himself. On July 1st.
It is, because the Flyers made those trade not only knowing what their contracts were, but knowing that it would put them further into cap trouble.


A GM with any sort of consciousness would say "gee, I have one of the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league, who should be able to get a little more out of what I would be paying for them, so I should have to spend less, especially since I have some of these roles already covered for what they are making. "

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10-20-2010, 08:18 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I think I tried him.



It is, because the Flyers made those trade not only knowing what their contracts were, but knowing that it would put them further into cap trouble.


A GM with any sort of consciousness would say "gee, I have one of the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league, who should be able to get a little more out of what I would be paying for them, so I should have to spend less."
Nah, you assemble the best team you can independent of your coach (though, hopefully tailored to his playing style). So, the question then becomes... is this the best group of guys he could have assembled with his cap space?

And that's before we get into the fact that Holmgren inexplicably tied up a LOT of cap space next year in guys we don't necessarily need.

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10-20-2010, 08:36 AM
  #121
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Nah, you assemble the best team you can independent of your coach (though, hopefully tailored to his playing style). So, the question then becomes... is this the best group of guys he could have assembled with his cap space?

And that's before we get into the fact that Holmgren inexplicably tied up a LOT of cap space next year in guys we don't necessarily need.
Given the cap space yes, but are you also allowing yourself some room for error, fixable by making a trade/signing, and not necessarily a ton of contracts that won't bring back proper value? And will this hurt my team next season?

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10-20-2010, 10:46 AM
  #122
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Using Meszaros and Carle is a little different because we didn't give them those contracts. I think we have signed every single one of those forwards to a contract, except Leino (?). Holmgren wasn't forced to give Shelley that money and he didn't trade for it. He offered it himself. On July 1st.
We took the contracts, especially Meszaros, with the knowledge that they were filling a need. I do not like the Meszaros trade and think Homer got rooked, but the Shelley signing is not much of a big deal in the grand scheme of things, you can complain about the length of the deal, but overall I still think for 82 games he is going to fill a role on this team on the ice and in the dressing room.

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10-20-2010, 10:58 AM
  #123
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Nah, you assemble the best team you can independent of your coach (though, hopefully tailored to his playing style). So, the question then becomes... is this the best group of guys he could have assembled with his cap space?

And that's before we get into the fact that Holmgren inexplicably tied up a LOT of cap space next year in guys we don't necessarily need.
Nope. I think he could have kept Gagne, traded Carter for one of LA's goalies and a winger or J Johnson, signed O'Donnell, Shelley, let Zherdev play in the KHL. Just my .02 cents.

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10-20-2010, 11:11 AM
  #124
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At least Meszaros can play at even strength, play the PP, play the PK, step into the top 4 if needed. It was still a bad trade, but he isnt useless

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10-20-2010, 11:18 AM
  #125
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Shelley + Walker+ Leighton= >4 million
Shelley+Walker+Leighton+Zherdev = Gagne

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