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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
10-20-2010, 05:00 PM
  #51
shadow1
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One sided trade based on needs.

The Penguins need a right wing. The Avalanche do not need another center.

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Old
10-20-2010, 05:02 PM
  #52
Freudian
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It will be interesting to see if Staal has all this untapped offensive game if he just get to play on a scoring line. I am not as convinced as Pens fans seem to be. But from what I can understand he will get the chance this season.

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Old
10-20-2010, 05:05 PM
  #53
WarriorOfGandhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
You don't watch many Pittsburgh games, do you?
How could we? Why, to watch them, we'd have to tune into NBC something like EVERY SUNDAY when they play the Rangers or Flyers

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Old
10-20-2010, 05:45 PM
  #54
terex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
This proposal makes absolutely no sense for the Avs. None whatsoever.

The Avs top three centers of Stastny, Duchene, and O'Reilly are all extremely young and none of them projects as a winger. The Avs' organizational weakness is top-6 skilled wingers (perhaps along with physical defensive-defensemen).

If the Avs acquired Staal, he would have to play wing, and he would have to project as a top scoring power forward in the league, which is questionable based on his prior production.

Chris Stewart has scored the 6th highest number of goals in the NHL since November of 2009.
I appreciate your detailed post, and both acknowledge and agree with what you say. However...

That oddball stat on the end just goes to show you can make statistics say whatever you want them to say. Stewart is an awesome player, but I don't think you or anyone else expects him to be the sixth best goal scorer in the league.

I also found that statistic hard to believe in the first place, so I looked up his game log. He has 33 goals in 83 games for all of last season+this season.

First, you are counting the 5 goals in 6 games for this year. That is not even remotely sustainable. In addition to that, you are excluding both October and November of 2009, where he scored 2 goals in 23 games. I also assume you are not counting the 7 playoff games where he scored 3 goals. The 3 goals in 7 games is probably close to his true GPG rate, which extrapolates to a hair over 35 goals over 82 games.

That is just a silly and very disingenuous statistic to cite.

Did you know that since 2009, in games that Sidney Crosby has scored a goal, he leads the league with an incredible 55 goals in 39 games? I don't think Crosby will score over 110 goals in a season, though.

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Old
10-20-2010, 05:55 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
You replied to a post comparing the 2 players -- a post that even said Staal was good! -- with derision concerning our opinion of Staal. So your post means your opinion of Staal is quite high, and your implication is that the conclusion concerning Stewie > Staal was poor.
No, the derision was your assertion, your VERY wrong assertion, was that Staal gets extensive time with Malkin or Crosby, and extensive power play time. Last year, Staal was on the power play for about two minutes per game. You realize that means he's probably out there for twenty or thirty seconds at the end of a power play, right?

I'm not even going to bother looking up his even strength line combinations on dobberhockey, but I doubt Staal is on the ice with Malkin and Crosby for more than a handful of shifts per game.

Edit: Okay, I looked it up. All stats are 2009-10. At first glance, it appears Staal is essentially never on the ice with Crosby at even strength. His most common line combination with Crosby is 0.77% of his total ice time, and it's a four forward configuration with Staal, Malkin, Crosby, and Guerin.

He has two line combinations with Malkin at about 2.7% each of total even strength ice time for the season, just barely above one with Chris Bourque (2.6%).



The mouth breathing Avs fans that came out of the woodwork to complain that the Pens are on TV so much, need to slow their role.

Stewart is an excellent player, this was a bad proposal. You were called out for an egregiously incorrect statement, and you and a bunch of other posters piled on with the Staal/Pens hate.

Relax.


Last edited by terex: 10-20-2010 at 06:15 PM.
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Old
10-20-2010, 06:26 PM
  #56
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This thread has been beaten to death. Can we lock it up?

Proposal wise it's terrible, and value wise I think it is absolutely tilted towards the Penguins although others are free to disagree.

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Old
10-20-2010, 07:28 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terex View Post
I appreciate your detailed post, and both acknowledge and agree with what you say. However...

That oddball stat on the end just goes to show you can make statistics say whatever you want them to say. Stewart is an awesome player, but I don't think you or anyone else expects him to be the sixth best goal scorer in the league.

I also found that statistic hard to believe in the first place, so I looked up his game log. He has 33 goals in 83 games for all of last season+this season.

First, you are counting the 5 goals in 6 games for this year. That is not even remotely sustainable. In addition to that, you are excluding both October and November of 2009, where he scored 2 goals in 23 games. I also assume you are not counting the 7 playoff games where he scored 3 goals. The 3 goals in 7 games is probably close to his true GPG rate, which extrapolates to a hair over 35 goals over 82 games.

That is just a silly and very disingenuous statistic to cite.

Did you know that since 2009, in games that Sidney Crosby has scored a goal, he leads the league with an incredible 55 goals in 39 games? I don't think Crosby will score over 110 goals in a season, though.
Before December, Stewart was never given first line minutes. David Jones was injured during the Minny game at the end of november. Jones before his injury was scoring at a 30 goal pace so he was playing too well to be taken over by Stewart. Hejduk was the other right wing ad was also scoring at a 30 goal pace. Once Jones went down, Stewart took over and has ran with it ever since. The stat was mentioned during the Avs broadcast, and those guys are big homers, but it does show that once Stewart got first line ice-time and line-mates, he was a beast. This is just like Penguin fans who believe Staal would put up great numbers if he got 2nd line ice-time. Its a pretty stupid stat, but its not completely made up without reason.

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Old
10-20-2010, 07:54 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Before December, Stewart was never given first line minutes. David Jones was injured during the Minny game at the end of november. Jones before his injury was scoring at a 30 goal pace so he was playing too well to be taken over by Stewart. Hejduk was the other right wing ad was also scoring at a 30 goal pace. Once Jones went down, Stewart took over and has ran with it ever since. The stat was mentioned during the Avs broadcast, and those guys are big homers, but it does show that once Stewart got first line ice-time and line-mates, he was a beast. This is just like Penguin fans who believe Staal would put up great numbers if he got 2nd line ice-time. Its a pretty stupid stat, but its not completely made up without reason.
Yep. The potential for scoring line opportunity to affect production shouldn't be discounted.

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Old
10-21-2010, 11:06 AM
  #59
JTG
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
How could we? Why, to watch them, we'd have to tune into NBC something like EVERY SUNDAY when they play the Rangers or Flyers
I wish it was every Sunday. And it's usually the Capitals

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Old
10-21-2010, 11:32 AM
  #60
Stories
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Yep. The potential for scoring line opportunity to affect production shouldn't be discounted.
But you don't trade a proven commodity for potential unless you're a team that has no chance of competing (which doesn't apply to either team here).

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Old
10-21-2010, 11:51 AM
  #61
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Stories View Post
But you don't trade a proven commodity for potential unless you're a team that has no chance of competing (which doesn't apply to either team here).
I'm not an advocate of the trade either way, and I understand both sides' POV. But Staal is hardly all potential on the offensive front (he has produced about as well as anyone could expect given his role and opportunity...he put up 15 fewer points than Stewart despite not playing with anything comparable to Colorado's top 6 centers), and is elite in his own end.

To say trading Stewart for Staal would be dealing "a proven commodity for potential" is misleading.

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