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Is Finley the Long Term Answer?

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Old
05-06-2005, 03:17 AM
  #26
Pepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Pepper - without spending much time shooting down your circular logic - i.e. "Everyone knows how good Suter is, so praising him is fine", whereas praise of Lassila is just hyping prospects for the hometown media..........THIS IS THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!!
You once again fail to see the difference - Suter is very highly regarded by all relevant parties (fans of other teams, GMs, scouts, independent scouting organisations etc), not just hometown media preaching him. Lassila is not even near that, he's not hyped by anybody else except you. Hell, even HF has rated Lassila as 6.0A (= BACKUP GOALTENDER!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
- you still seem to be falling back to your old techniques of duck and fire. You ignore what ever we say to you, and choose to criticize us for not holding to your beliefs of "Every Pred prospect is inferior to the Duck prospects" or whatever line of thought you are now touting.
Maybe you should come back when you have paid enough attention to even know what we're talking about here?? You just come here guns blazing & accusing me of god knows what without really even knowing what's the topic here.

Grow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
"we believe he is the best goalie in Finland," etc. Instead of working to discount those comments or heck even mentinoning why Lassila is not a good prospect as a goalie, you simply say - I watched him, he is bad..
Jesus christ, you should really pay some more attention here!

I *NEVER* said Lassila is a bad goalie, never! I said Lassila will never become a no.1 goalie, that's my OPINION which HF seems to agree with.

Stop putting words to my mouth, I believe that's firmly against HF rules and something which you have done repeatedly over the time.

I expect you to provide direct quotes of me saying Lassila is bad or admit that I never said any of those things you claim I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Newsflash - We already pinned you down when you blatanly lied on the prospect board claiming to know all of the Predators prospects better than anyone here at HF (and if I recall correctly, our management). Doing so again will be just more fune...
1) Never claimed to know ALL your prospects better than any of you, read again. Only those playing in Finland.

Here's my original post which you seem to think is some kind of evidence:

"Of those prospects I mentioned in my original post, I can guarantee that I've most certainly seen 10x more than you or any other Nashville writer here"

Now anyone with english as first language should notice that there's clearly few missing words since if I'd really claimed I've seen ALL your prospects 10x more, I wouldn't have started the sentence with "of those prospects..." which is clearly an indicator that I'm talking about a limited group here.

And here's what the original post was supposed to say (and later edited):

"Of those prospects I mentioned in my original post, I can guarantee that I've most certainly seen three of them 10x more than you or any other Nashville writer here"

But hey, I can understand if you need to use semantics as some kind of weapon here as you have absolutely nothing else to bash me with.

2) Your memory fails you, once again. Never talked about Nashville management. But hey, it's not like making up stories is something new to you.

Let's make the core issue clear:

I don't think Lassila is a bad goalie, I just don't think he will become a regular NHL no.1 goalie. HF seems to agree with me, Preds organisation has said some nice things about him but I don't think they have claimed he will become a no.1 goalie in the NHL either.

So here we have you guys (of which nobody has actually seen Lassila play) claiming I said something bad. Could someone actually tell me why are we arguing about this??

Difference of opinion - let's leave it at that.

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05-06-2005, 07:55 AM
  #27
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Hey, that's your opinion that's fine. You've seen him more than any of us, but we have gotten reports that say other wise.

Let me also say this. Montreal thought Vokoun was so bad they gave us an extra player to take him off their hands (Bordeleau). Goalies mature at different rates, this entire discussion is premature.

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05-06-2005, 10:16 AM
  #28
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Unless my memory is failing me, I believe Montreal gave us Sebastien Bordeleau so that we'd take Tomas Vokoun rather than another of their goalies. They were just protecting their other goalies, which they valued more. Jose Theodore may have been one of them at that time.

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05-06-2005, 11:30 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
Hey, that's your opinion that's fine. You've seen him more than any of us, but we have gotten reports that say other wise.

Let me also say this. Montreal thought Vokoun was so bad they gave us an extra player to take him off their hands (Bordeleau). Goalies mature at different rates, this entire discussion is premature.
I know, same goes for many goalies (Hasek, Burke, Belfour etc).

I could be wrong, no question about that. If Lassila becomes a regular no.1 goalie in the NHL someday, give me a link to this discussion and remind me how wrong I was.

EDIT: I believe Beauty Personified is correct, one of those expansion-draft waiver-lists thingys, lots of 'protection' deals involved in all of them.

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05-06-2005, 01:02 PM
  #30
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Nope, Theodore wasn't eligable for the expansion draft in 1998, here is Montreal's list.

Montreal
PROTECTED LIST
Benoit Brunet (L)
Shayne Corson (L)
Vincent Damphousse (C)
Saku Koivu (C)
Mark Recchi (R)
Martin Rucinsky (L)
Brian Savage (L)
Turner Stevenson (R)
Scott Thornton (C)
Patrice Brisebois (D)
Vladimir Malakhov (D)
Dave Manson (D)
Stephane Quintal (D)
Craig Rivet (D)
Igor Ulanov (D)
Jocelyn Thibault (G)


AVAILABLE LIST
Sebastien Bordeleau (C)
Marc Bureau (C)
Martin Gendron (R)
Jonas Hoglund (L)
Arto Kuki * (C)
Oleg Petrov (R)
Patrick Poulin (L)
Peter Strom * (L)
Mick Vukota (R)
Brad Brown (D)
Steve Cheredaryk (D)
Brett Clark (D)
Dion Darling (D)
Peter Popovic (D)
Zarley Zalapski (D)
Andy Moog (G)
Tomas Vokoun (G

I don't think they were protecting Andy Moog....

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05-06-2005, 01:04 PM
  #31
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I think they were protecting someone else on that unprotected list (other than Moog that is), maybe Petrov or Brown...

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05-06-2005, 01:23 PM
  #32
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even so, Vokoun is still the best player on the board.....

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05-06-2005, 02:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
even so, Vokoun is still the best player on the board.....
Yes, I think they had a deal before they submitted their lists. They agreed to give an extra player in exchange for getting a promise that Preds won't pick certain player.

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05-06-2005, 04:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
A neutral Preds fan....ooookay. No offense but you're pretty damn far from being 'neutral' here.
Hey dinkus... re-read my post... I was neutral in the argument. I could give a rats rear what goalie you've seen and what ones you haven't. But I will take the goalie coach and GM's word over that of an anonymous poster on a message board. Sorry if my opinion upsets you so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Listen, I'm not here to claim "victories" (I'll leave that to the insecure posters here), I just said that in my opinion Lassila will never become a regular NHL no.1 goalie, that's it. How can I lose the argument when I'm simply stating my opinion??
Then let it go. Shut your pie hole... or in this case, use your fingers for something more constructive. I'm sure your boyfriend could give you some ideas.

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05-06-2005, 04:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quartermaster29
Hey dinkus... re-read my post... I was neutral in the argument. I could give a rats rear what goalie you've seen and what ones you haven't. But I will take the goalie coach and GM's word over that of an anonymous poster on a message board. Sorry if my opinion upsets you so.


Then let it go. Shut your pie hole... or in this case, use your fingers for something more constructive. I'm sure your boyfriend could give you some ideas.
Slow down QM this is just the second round and already your throwing haymakers.

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05-06-2005, 04:15 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang
Slow down QM this is just the second round and already your throwing haymakers.
I blame my cold... and to be honest I never qualified in my original post by using the phrase "this is with regard to the argument". But I felt that in my opening paragraph and the first sentence of my second paragraph that it was pretty evident that I was referring to the argument and not whether or not Lassila is the second coming of Hasek.

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05-06-2005, 10:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Yes, I think they had a deal before they submitted their lists. They agreed to give an extra player in exchange for getting a promise that Preds won't pick certain player.
It wasn't another player, it was so they wouldn't have to protect a goalie in future expansion drafts. You could only lose one goalie from the last 4 expansion drafts, so by us taking Vokoun they wouldn't have to protect JT in future drafts. I just wanted to see how far the speculations would go.

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05-06-2005, 11:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
You once again fail to see the difference - Suter is very highly regarded by all relevant parties (fans of other teams, GMs, scouts, independent scouting organisations etc), not just hometown media preaching him. Lassila is not even near that, he's not hyped by anybody else except you. Hell, even HF has rated Lassila as 6.0A (= BACKUP GOALTENDER!!)
It is not I that is failing to see the difference. It is you. You are holding to your circular logic as if it proves something. It doesn't. You can't prove that Poile has a tendency to overhype prospects in the media. You ignore evidence that Poile is actually blunt and open in the media in regards to prospects. Furthermore, you ignore the comments themselves and qualify them as something they are not. It is one thing to give a bland statement such as - "This guy could be a big part of this organization." or "This guy has all the skills to succeed." Instead, comments were made saying " This guy is the best goalie in Finland." This is an entirely different type of statement that does not reflect the usual "hype" that coaches doll out to prospects.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Maybe you should come back when you have paid enough attention to even know what we're talking about here?? You just come here guns blazing & accusing me of god knows what without really even knowing what's the topic here.

Grow up.
What do you expect from us Pepper? You pretty much head to any Predator related topic and down our players. You never give any reason, you duck any reasonable debate, you make obtuse comments, oh ........ and you are consistently trapped in incorrect statements. As for the topic, I know exactly what it is - its on the viability of Brian Finely as the goalie for the Preds in the future, and at a sub-level - the chances of Lassila having a positive effect on him/the Preds organization.

Frankly, I'm not surprised you threw in your last comment. It seems to be a running trend with you to degrade, ridiculy, and accuse in your posts in an attempt to duck any form of debate that would expose your weak knowledge on the topic. Keep going. You never cease to make me laugh with your childish insults and whiney behavior.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Jesus christ, you should really pay some more attention here!

I *NEVER* said Lassila is a bad goalie, never! I said Lassila will never become a no.1 goalie, that's my OPINION which HF seems to agree with.
I'm sorry Pepper, is something upsetting you? Does it bother you when people constantly throw things back in your face because you fail to bring anything of worth to the table time and time again? Maybe it is your negative and antagonistical view torwards all things Pred related on this board that just makes me relish calling you out when you decide to spout off your usual bs.

Lets replay the chain of events shall we? A thread is started on the Predators board. It concerns Brian Finley, and somone mentions Lassila (a player you supposedly follow on a dialy basis ). Seeing this, you decide to drop another negative one-liner on all of us Pred fans, telling us how misguided we are to think Lassila is a long term answer for anything. Knowing your past on this board, several of us correctly put your comments into context for the majority of the people here. After being called out, you resort to your normal - duck, flee, hurl insults - routine.

Guess what - It failed last time. Its not going to work this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Stop putting words to my mouth, I believe that's firmly against HF rules and something which you have done repeatedly over the time.

I expect you to provide direct quotes of me saying Lassila is bad or admit that I never said any of those things you claim I said.
Oh I love it! Not only are you trying to play the role of moderator (and thus breaking the rules of this forum), you are also making up fictional rules and trying to use them against me. There is nothing that says I cannot put words in your mouth........and there is nothing that says I cannot assume your stance on an issue. Besides, I never put any words in your mouth to begin with. Your take on Predator prospects is well documented, and frankly, its one that paints almost everyone from a negative perspective. Claiming you think Lassila is "bad" is really not that much of a stretch. You discount the praise given to him. You claim the praise given to him is merely prospect hype. You claim he will never be a starter in this league........To me, this certainly seems to be an antagonistical and "bad" view of a player's worth.

But hey, I guess thats just me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
1) Never claimed to know ALL your prospects better than any of you, read again. Only those playing in Finland.

Here's my original post which you seem to think is some kind of evidence:

"Of those prospects I mentioned in my original post, I can guarantee that I've most certainly seen 10x more than you or any other Nashville writer here"

Now anyone with english as first language should notice that there's clearly few missing words since if I'd really claimed I've seen ALL your prospects 10x more, I wouldn't have started the sentence with "of those prospects..." which is clearly an indicator that I'm talking about a limited group here.

And here's what the original post was supposed to say (and later edited):

"Of those prospects I mentioned in my original post, I can guarantee that I've most certainly seen three of them 10x more than you or any other Nashville writer here"

But hey, I can understand if you need to use semantics as some kind of weapon here as you have absolutely nothing else to bash me with.
Pepper - your killing me here. Do you really want to open that thread again? Well here it is - http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=106365&page=1

Now everyone can see exactly where most of the Pred's posters angst against you began. Lets start with your supposedly "incorrect" statement that we "took out of context." Here is what you said, and I have the quote BEFORE you edited it!

Again you make wild assumptions out of nowhere! Of those prospects I mentioned in my original post, I can guarantee that I've most certainly seen 10x more than you or any other Nashville writer here and I have read probably just/nearly as much about the rest as you. So please don't humiliate yourself any further by making stupid claims & assumptions.

Looking at the thread, your first post mentioning prospects mentions - Lassila, Finley, Suter, Weber, Niskala, Setzinger, Radulov, Shishkanov, and Upshall. Wow, I can't seem to narrow that list down to three people! This was just a case of you lying openly, being called on it, and trying to retract by changing your words AND belittling us. Here is another gem that came out of you in that post:

Of wingers only Radulov and Shishkanov have top6 potential and the former is unlikely at best to reach that potential (just look at his brother).

And lets not forget - Finley will probably amount to nothing because you did not notice him making "any waves"!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
2) Your memory fails you, once again. Never talked about Nashville management. But hey, it's not like making up stories is something new to you.
Hey, for once your right. You didn't mention the Predator's management, but I never said you positively did. You must have missed the part "If I recall correctly." I said I thought you did, but you didn't. Speculation, retracted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Let's make the core issue clear:

I don't think Lassila is a bad goalie, I just don't think he will become a regular NHL no.1 goalie. HF seems to agree with me, Preds organisation has said some nice things about him but I don't think they have claimed he will become a no.1 goalie in the NHL either.

So here we have you guys (of which nobody has actually seen Lassila play) claiming I said something bad. Could someone actually tell me why are we arguing about this??

Difference of opinion - let's leave it at that.
I have no problem with that. However, if you come here expecting a free ride when you throw out blanket statements, think again. You still have yet to provide anything of meat on why Lassila will or will not succeed. Of course, you never have anyways. Some things are not going to change no matter how many times you press people.

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Old
05-07-2005, 07:19 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
This guy is the best goalie in Finland." This is an entirely different type of statement that does not reflect the usual "hype" that coaches doll out to prospects.
Does saying "best goalie in Finland" equal with "future no.1 goalie in NHL"?

If not, what the hell are you arguing here since Poile's comments don't contradict mine in any way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
You never give any reason, you duck any reasonable debate, you make obtuse comments, oh ........ and you are consistently trapped in incorrect statements.
REasonable debate is what I was having with Triggrman, your tactic is something totally different, you constantly put words to my mouth or downright lie. I don't call that reasonable debate but I guess you have different standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Lets replay the chain of events shall we? A thread is started on the Predators board. It concerns Brian Finley, and somone mentions Lassila (a player you supposedly follow on a dialy basis ). Seeing this, you decide to drop another negative one-liner on all of us Pred fans, telling us how misguided we are to think Lassila is a long term answer for anything.
This is once again a classic example of your blatant twisting & putting words to my mouth. I said Lassila will never become a no.1 goalie in the NHL, an opionion backed up by HF's writer which you seem to ignore. And yes, last year I think I saw close to 12-15 games from Lassila LIVE and another few from TV. Remind me again, how many did YOU see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Here is what you said, and I have the quote BEFORE you edited it!
Newsflash, I already provided the unedited quote in my last post!! Maybe you should pay some attention?

Didn't this part give you any hints:

I have read probably just/nearly as much about the rest as you.

Now if I had claimed to have seen all those prospects I mentioned, why would I say that ("about the rest")? Did it ever occur to you that I claimed to have seen the FEL prospects and read about the rest? Probably not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Hey, for once your right. You didn't mention the Predator's management, but I never said you positively did. You must have missed the part "If I recall correctly." I said I thought you did, but you didn't. Speculation, retracted.
Just goes to show your tactics, in this case you just added the disclaimer "IIRC".

You still haven't shown where I said Lassila is a bad goalie, I'm still expecting you to provide a direct quote or apologize for your blatant twisting.

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05-07-2005, 07:22 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
There is nothing that says I cannot put words in your mouth
Could one of the moderators clarify this for me please, I've always thought this is against the rules (claiming others have said things they in reality haven't)?

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05-07-2005, 10:22 PM
  #41
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either get this back on topic(ie: stop trying to assasinate each other's character) or this thread bites it.

this is silly, and you guys know it.

my gang: pepper is entitled to his opinion, whether or not we agree with it.

pepper: likewise, we are entitled to ours. understand...it's a little easier to swallow the words of a guy who is paid to know what he's talking about..and is historically pretty hard on prospects that he doesn't feel are working out than an anonymous, joe anybody poster on a messageboard, though..as i said...you have a right to your opinion.

any further talk on this matter should be about finley and his role on the team...no more personal shots.

thanks.

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05-07-2005, 11:56 PM
  #42
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one more year in Milwaukee will clarify Finley's future role in the organization. Has to be said he demonstrated growth and improvement in net this year,and answered what had been the biggest questionmark about the guy for the last 4 years...durability...now he has to demonstrate continued improvement(improving both save percentage and gaa)..he has to demonstrate more consistency(fewer soft goals in bunches)...and improved performance in pk situations(where his save percentage was no doubt lower than the league average this year) and of course he needs to demonstrate that he's a goalie capable of playing well in big games next year(something that cann't be said after games 5,6,and 7)...make as much progress as this past season and finley has a future with the preds....if not,well

another thing management will be watching and thinking about finley is the changes in pad size for goalies....any significant reduction in equipment size and it makes goalie size geometrically more important...finley is a big goalie,and big goalies will possibly be more highly valued than before...could make a difference

i'm like everyone else here...what i wish would happen is that lassila would come over to be finley's backup and they would push each other so the organization can really get a feel for where we need to go in goal....maybe these two(or rinne) are the answer down the road,maybe not...but we need to be finding out so we can determine draft needs soon

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05-08-2005, 06:19 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
either get this back on topic(ie: stop trying to assasinate each other's character) or this thread bites it.

this is silly, and you guys know it.

my gang: pepper is entitled to his opinion, whether or not we agree with it.

pepper: likewise, we are entitled to ours. understand...it's a little easier to swallow the words of a guy who is paid to know what he's talking about..and is historically pretty hard on prospects that he doesn't feel are working out than an anonymous, joe anybody poster on a messageboard, though..as i said...you have a right to your opinion.

any further talk on this matter should be about finley and his role on the team...no more personal shots.

thanks.
I apologize for my part in this mess and try to be less blunt next time. I also hope that in the future I don't have to deal with posters trying to put words to my mouth claiming I said things I never had done.

About Lassila, he signed a 1-year deal with Djurgården of SEL, I'm not quite certain who else they have playing there but I expect him to face tougher battle than in TPS. I'm not able to see him next year but I'm sure Predatore and other swedish posters can give us updates about his progress.

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05-08-2005, 08:06 AM
  #44
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After reading that thread Enoch posted I'd like to know if Pepper's views on Weber and Radulov have changed?

Weber does have top pairing potential and Radulov looks (to me) like a better player than Schremp.

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05-08-2005, 10:05 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
After reading that thread Enoch posted I'd like to know if Pepper's views on Weber and Radulov have changed?

Weber does have top pairing potential and Radulov looks (to me) like a better player than Schremp.
Weber - yes, he has been better than I expected.

Radulov - no, in fact I feel Schremp has pulled even more gap to Radulov. And since Schremp has improved his two-way play & skating (two of his biggest weaknesses), I feel his chances to succeed in NHL are much higher than Radulov's.

Btw, this thread is about Finley so maybe this should be discussed in some other thread?

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05-08-2005, 01:06 PM
  #46
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My apologies everyone.

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05-10-2005, 03:20 PM
  #47
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Preds still support Finley despite playoff collapse

BOOO

http://tennessean.com/sports/predato...nt_ID=69278678

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05-10-2005, 03:55 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
It's just the organization not speaking ill of the prospect. You should have realized that joe.

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05-10-2005, 03:58 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
I don't see why they shouldn't support him. He hasn't played hockey full-time for 3 years. Overall, he had a pretty decent year. Let's see what he can do next year. It's not like he's going to command alot in a trade. Give him another year (or maybe 2).

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