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The Brassard/Filatov/Voracek line thread

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:51 PM
  #26
TaketheCannoli
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I don't follow this either. Are you sure BJNut was part of everybody who wanted the previous coach fired because he wouldn't play the kids together?

Or are you just pissed because there's no "Fire Arniel" thread yet?

Nah, I'm not pissed DSL, just pointing out the double standard. When Arniel benches little Nikki, it's deserved, when Hitch benches him, he's a nasty old ogre.

I'm not even upset with Arniel. The only thing that has upset me is this team's seemingly limitless ability to go into a shell. Sitting in the arena last night, I told my wife that it looks like they are on a 13 minute penalty kill. Obviously, the Jackets were in a shell for 55 minutes or so against the Blackhawks.

No resiliency...I guess I'm unhappy with our GM.

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10-21-2010, 05:02 PM
  #27
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I really don't think moving Filatov up in the lines is going to serve him well. I watch this kid start out with will, speed, and aggression in the first period only to end up unsure and hesitant in the second and third. He's not strong enough or wily enough to play at an NHL level for extended periods of time. Guys who are hesitant and weary are the guys who make big mistakes and get themselves injured.

For better or worse the Kid Funk and Moreau injury demand that some immediate roster improvisation happen - but I don't think Filatov moved UP in lines or away from his LW position are any sort of solution.

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10-21-2010, 05:19 PM
  #28
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Look, we've played five games now. They haven't done what we've hoped, to be sure. But I think they'll come around and when it happens it will be dramatic. Call me back in ten more games and we'll see.

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10-21-2010, 05:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
I really don't think moving Filatov up in the lines is going to serve him well.
If you swap Nikki and Nash, that implies that Nikki is not on the top line. Whatever line Nash is on is the top line, as that's the line the other team will focus on.

So we can argue if Brass and Jake are ready for that. No, but it would take some pressure off Juice and Vermette to get them going. And Nikki seems to have some chemistry with Juice.

Just a thought.

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10-21-2010, 05:28 PM
  #30
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Look, we've played five games now. They haven't done what we've hoped, to be sure. But I think they'll come around and when it happens it will be dramatic. Call me back in ten more games and we'll see.
Sure, almost 20% of the season gone? Sounds like a plan.

Honestly, if they can't get something going after 10% of the season it's probably not worth the additional time investment.

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10-21-2010, 05:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Nah, I'm not pissed DSL, just pointing out the double standard. When Arniel benches little Nikki, it's deserved, when Hitch benches him, he's a nasty old ogre.

I'm not even upset with Arniel. The only thing that has upset me is this team's seemingly limitless ability to go into a shell. Sitting in the arena last night, I told my wife that it looks like they are on a 13 minute penalty kill. Obviously, the Jackets were in a shell for 55 minutes or so against the Blackhawks.

No resiliency...I guess I'm unhappy with our GM.
I'll take the bait...

There's a difference between limiting Nikki's playing time because he isn't doing what we know he can and should do (i.e. score) versus scratching him after he played one of his best games because he wasn't (allegedly) doing something which isn't really his strong suit (i.e. checking). I'm sorry, but that scratch on the West Coast trip last year was BS, plain and simple.

Furthermore, does it make sense to keep trotting out a second line that isn't getting the job done? It isn't even about punishment--it is about getting results. They aren't--something has to give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
If you swap Nikki and Nash, that implies that Nikki is not on the top line. Whatever line Nash is on is the top line, as that's the line the other team will focus on.

So we can argue if Brass and Jake are ready for that. No, but it would take some pressure off Juice and Vermette to get them going. And Nikki seems to have some chemistry with Juice.

Just a thought.
I agree that Nikki and Juice have had some chemistry. I'm just not sure that Nash has displayed any chemistry with Brassard and Voracek to this point.

I'll be honest, I'm at a loss to come up with any great line combos. But, we don't have a depth problem.

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10-21-2010, 06:02 PM
  #32
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Voracek and Vermette have had chemistry in the past, mostly on the PP. Most of Nash's history is about him creating his own chances anyway. I'd say....

Nash -- Vermette -- Voracek
Filatov -- Brassard -- Huselius

Voracek hasn't earned a promotion and Huselius hasn't earned a demotion. But neither line is looking good right now anyway, so who cares? Second line becomes a little softer, but our top six is soft as a whole.

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10-21-2010, 06:17 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
Voracek and Vermette have had chemistry in the past, mostly on the PP. Most of Nash's history is about him creating his own chances anyway. I'd say....

Nash -- Vermette -- Voracek
Filatov -- Brassard -- Huselius

Voracek hasn't earned a promotion and Huselius hasn't earned a demotion. But neither line is looking good right now anyway, so who cares? Second line becomes a little softer, but our top six is soft as a whole.

But Brass played tragic. Yes, he try but his play has not any idea now, nothing.

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10-21-2010, 06:28 PM
  #34
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I made several ad hoc comments about this topic in the GDT yesterday... I suggested moving RJ into the second line center spot, that might not be possible due the impact of his loss to the third line and where does Brassard go?

We can suggest many different combinations for changing the second line but only experimentation will determine the best fit.

In the end, first and foremost, Arniel must consider putting a veteran player on the second line. Voracek does have two years of NHL experience but that does not appear to be enough to stabilize the line with essentially two rookies-Filatov and Brassard.

The second line needs some change or instant maturity-soon.

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10-21-2010, 06:28 PM
  #35
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The 06-07-08 line, featuring Nikita Filatov, Derick Brassard and Jake Voracek, is the only one without a goal this season. Arniel isn't planning to break up the kids -- at least not yet -- but he's on record as saying he would swap out one member of a line to get it in gear.

So would he insert Wilson, 25, that high in the lineup? The guess here is the coach is trying to send a message through the press: Our patience isn't infinite, boys. Nobody on the second line has shown much consistency, but Arniel isn't complaining about Voracek's effort.

"It might be a little chemistry (issue)there, that line not being in sync, but Jake is working hard," Arniel said. "He's competing hard and getting opportunities. We are going to continue to be patient and hopefully he finds his scoring touch."
So, he won't break the kid line but he'll swap out one of the three. Hum.

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Old
10-21-2010, 07:02 PM
  #36
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The biggest issue right now, in my opinion, is the lack of center depth. It would be nice to allow Filatov and Brass to match up against 4th lines and give them PP time. I think both need to play lower in the lineup to learn the game again and gain some confidence. Personally, I think Jake sucks right now but of the 3 he seems most likely to be capable of playing through the trouble times.

Given some of the limitations with our roster this likely is a crash and burn effort....

Nash Vermette Voracek
Umberger MacKenzie Huselius
Clark Pahlson Dorsett
Filatov Brassard Sestito

I'd like to see Wilson get a shot but I don't think having Brass sit in the press box helps him. Work the matchups and get him someone who might create some space. Another option that could work might be...

Nash Vermette Huselius
Filatov Brassard Umberger
Dorsett Pahlson Voracek
Clark MacKenzie Wilson/Sestito

I just don't see anyone on the kid line that is a true forechecker. I do think that's why Voracek and Chimmer worked well. Someone needs to be in on the puck and putting pressure. Umberger can do that. Dorsett can do that. MacKenzie can do that.

I only picked Sestito becuase I think he's the next call up.

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10-21-2010, 07:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
The biggest issue right now, in my opinion, is the lack of center depth. It would be nice to allow Filatov and Brass to match up against 4th lines and give them PP time. I think both need to play lower in the lineup to learn the game again and gain some confidence. Personally, I think Jake sucks right now but of the 3 he seems most likely to be capable of playing through the trouble times.

Given some of the limitations with our roster this likely is a crash and burn effort....

Nash Vermette Voracek
Umberger MacKenzie Huselius
Clark Pahlson Dorsett
Filatov Brassard Sestito

I'd like to see Wilson get a shot but I don't think having Brass sit in the press box helps him. Work the matchups and get him someone who might create some space. Another option that could work might be...

Nash Vermette Huselius
Filatov Brassard Umberger
Dorsett Pahlson Voracek
Clark MacKenzie Wilson/Sestito

I just don't see anyone on the kid line that is a true forechecker. I do think that's why Voracek and Chimmer worked well. Someone needs to be in on the puck and putting pressure. Umberger can do that. Dorsett can do that. MacKenzie can do that.

I only picked Sestito becuase I think he's the next call up.
Bingo and couple that with Brassard's shakiness on face-offs and it puts this line at a disadvantage. I think it might make sense to flip MacKenzie and Brassard.

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10-21-2010, 07:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I'll take the bait...

There's a difference between limiting Nikki's playing time because he isn't doing what we know he can and should do (i.e. score) versus scratching him after he played one of his best games because he wasn't (allegedly) doing something which isn't really his strong suit (i.e. checking). I'm sorry, but that scratch on the West Coast trip last year was BS, plain and simple.

Furthermore, does it make sense to keep trotting out a second line that isn't getting the job done? It isn't even about punishment--it is about getting results. They aren't--something has to give.



I agree that Nikki and Juice have had some chemistry. I'm just not sure that Nash has displayed any chemistry with Brassard and Voracek to this point.

I'll be honest, I'm at a loss to come up with any great line combos. But, we don't have a depth problem.
I suspect there is often more to a story than is published. Clearly Umberger's and Filatov's comments before this season indicated Nikki needed some attitude adjustment. I don't know why he was benched last night, yes he looked like he was running out of gas a bit, but so did everyone else. Since I was there and obviously couldn't hear whatever news was reported on TV and radio, I wondered if Filatov was injured. I just knew he stopped getting shifts.

Does it make sense to keep trotting out a second line that isn't getting it done? Like most things, it depends. Certainly the line might be improved by putting Umberger there, but at what cost?
Without Moreau on the third line, you get Pahlson, Dorsett and ??

I might flip MacKenzie and Brassard, but it's just a stopgap. Howson has once more decided to play a pat hand. One that was 14th in the West a year ago. This team will be like this until Brassard realizes his potential and Johansen realizes his, while the young defensemen like Moore, Goloubef, Savard and Ruth become top 4 defensemen. It may be a long wait, because what if one or more of them never do?

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10-21-2010, 07:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
But Brass played tragic. Yes, he try but his play has not any idea now, nothing.
If the lines were based on play, they'd look something like this:

Umberger -- Pahlsson -- Moreau (alas)
Dorsett -- MacKenzie -- Huselius
Nash -- Brassard/Vermette -- Clark
Filatov -- Vermette/Brassard -- Voracek

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Old
10-21-2010, 09:14 PM
  #40
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I think we need to keep the Filatov - Brass - Voracek line together. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that we take way too many penalties which deeply cut into that line's TOI.

Decrease penalties, increase that line's TOI, and I think production will be much better.

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Old
10-21-2010, 10:25 PM
  #41
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Fun topic. Few thoughts:
1. Pahlsson needs set line mates it seems to have chemistry. At least that's the theory why he did poorly last season. Without Moreau, I don't want to see Umberger off his line unless completely necessary. That limits the other options.
2. It makes sense that Filatov and Huselius would have chemistry. I would like to see them play together too; however, neither seem to do well in physical games. Next game against Calgary would especially be hard on them I think. Umberger would be a good fit. Due to my first point, however, I don't want to move Umby off the 3rd line yet.
3. Despite being benched last game, I would put Filatov on the 1st line to break up the 2nd line. I'd tell Filatov that he will start on the 1st line and it was up to him to prove that he deserves to stay on it.
4. I would put Brass on the 4th line. It may discourage him as I'd put his line mates on the 1st and 2nd lines and he would be the only one really 'demoted.' Plus I would take him off center and put him on wing. But I would turn the 4th line into a 3rd scoring line. On wing I would tell Brass to be the shooter on that line. The hope would be to clear his mind of trying to make plays, and hopefully putting him up against other teams' lesser lines making it theoretically easier to score goals. Scoring goals IMO is the fastest way to help a forward gain their self confidence back which I think Brassard has been lacking for a long time.
5. Here are my lines. I tried to make sure that there is someone who can score, do the playmaking, and a gritty/checking player for each line.
Filatov - Vermette - Nash (scoring line)
Huselius - MacKenzie - Voracek (scoring line)
Umberger - Pahlsson - Clark (checking line)
Brassard - Wilson - Dorsett (scoring line)

As a side note, I'd like to see Vermette and Nash put back onto the pk a little more. Maybe not as much as during the Hitchcock era as I understand Arniel wants to keep them rested. But I haven't been too pleased with our pk yet (special teams in general really) and without Moreau for at least a month, someone needs to step in.

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10-22-2010, 01:48 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I made several ad hoc comments about this topic in the GDT yesterday... I suggested moving RJ into the second line center spot, that might not be possible due the impact of his loss to the third line and where does Brassard go?

We can suggest many different combinations for changing the second line but only experimentation will determine the best fit.

In the end, first and foremost, Arniel must consider putting a veteran player on the second line. Voracek does have two years of NHL experience but that does not appear to be enough to stabilize the line with essentially two rookies-Filatov and Brassard.

The second line needs some change or instant maturity-soon.
I'm not keen on messing with Umberger playing top six center. Can he spot fill a center position? sure, especially if he's playing center behind the likes of Richards/Carter/Briere. He's versatile two-way player who is very valuable to a team like ours - I think we maximize his abilities at 2nd and/or 3rd line wing.

Edit: I'm not totally against a short term stint of Umberger at center on a line with say ... Brass and Juice. But, it is really imperative that we find out - sooner rather than later - whether Brass is a capable top six center.


Last edited by Pluckfur: 10-22-2010 at 01:53 AM.
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10-22-2010, 03:23 AM
  #43
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The 06-07-08 line, featuring Nikita Filatov, Derick Brassard and Jake Voracek, is the only one without a goal this season. Arniel isn't planning to break up the kids -- at least not yet -- but he's on record as saying he would swap out one member of a line to get it in gear.

http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/2010/10/slfsffs.shtml

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10-22-2010, 06:28 AM
  #44
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The biggest problem with out top 2 lines, is theyre Charmin Soft, especially the kid line

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10-22-2010, 08:34 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
The 06-07-08 line, featuring Nikita Filatov, Derick Brassard and Jake Voracek, is the only one without a goal this season. Arniel isn't planning to break up the kids -- at least not yet -- but he's on record as saying he would swap out one member of a line to get it in gear.

http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/2010/10/slfsffs.shtml
He can call it what he wants...

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10-22-2010, 09:28 AM
  #46
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He can call it what he wants...

You have to respect and admire anyone who pulls out Junior Wells.

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10-22-2010, 09:43 AM
  #47
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You have to respect and admire anyone who pulls out Junior Wells.
You see an opening to post a Junior Wells vid, you take it.

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10-22-2010, 11:14 AM
  #48
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You're posting weighty, this morning, DSL.

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10-22-2010, 11:50 AM
  #49
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You're posting weighty, this morning, DSL.
Yeah but I'm inconsistent.

There are rumblings among the fan base that if the mantle of mod were lifted in favor of someone else I could concentrate more on good posting.

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10-22-2010, 12:35 PM
  #50
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Yeah but I'm inconsistent.

There are rumblings among the fan base that if the mantle of mod were lifted in favor of someone else I could concentrate more on good posting.
I've always felt we rushed you, DSL. I think you should have spent a year or two modding in Syracuse/Springfield.

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