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2nd youngest Defense in the NHL

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Old
10-20-2010, 07:03 PM
  #51
Fitzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
Based on this statistic, if Girardi was struggling with Del Zotto, logically, wouldn't MDZ have a higher GAA than DG?
Only if we assume that every mistake was MDZ's.

Girardi may be playing worse than MDZ, but playing with MDZ has made it worse that it otherwise would have been.

In this case MDZ has also been hurt by playing with Girardi.

I'd like to see a return to Staal-Girardi, MDZ-Rozsival, personally.

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Old
10-20-2010, 07:08 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
About skewing the numbers unfairly against defenders on the pk, I don't see that in the numbers. Those who don't pk seem to have far worse numbers in general... maybe showing that coaches (obviously) use their best defenders on the pk and they continue to play to their level.

Also explains why Staal should do his best not to get sent off during OT or when the game is tied.
You can actually see the skewing quite clearly if you look at Girardi and Eminger.

Girardi has been on for 4 ES goals against in 68 minutes. 1 goal for every 17 minutes.
Eminger has been on for 3 ES goals against in 45 minutes. 1 goal for every 15 minutes.
Edge: Girardi

Girardi has been on for 5 PP goals against in 15 minutes. 1 goal for every 3 minutes.
Emingers has been on for 2 PP goals against in 5.37 minutes. 1 goal for every 2.69.
Edge: Girardi again.

Not surprising. Given that Girardi has the edge in both categories, if we put them together he will naturally win again. Right?

Girardi has been on for 9 goals against in 90 minutes. 1 goal for every 10 minutes.
Eminger has been on for 5 goals in 51.75 minutes. 1 goal for every 10.35 minutes.
Edge: Eminger?!?

And that my friend is skew. Since Girardi plays a ton more PK minutes than Eminger and goals against naturally come more often on the PK the overall numbers get distorted. Essentially he gets punished for playing more on the PK. Girardi is better both on the PK and at ES but together he is worse because of the problem of not comparing like to like.

Math is fun.

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Old
10-20-2010, 07:08 PM
  #53
BlueshirtBlitz
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Just gonna point out that in the 1st and 4th games MDZ played defense well.

The train wrecks were the 2nd and 3rd games.

His problem isn't that he's bad at defense, the problem is he's inconsistent when it comes to being good.

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Old
10-20-2010, 08:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Arcillius View Post
Math is fun.
Yeah, for you maybe.

I see your point.

Anyway - if you accept that we should compare Girardi to Eminger, despite the large difference in minutes played overall, then they really don't look too different.

I mean, Girardi or Eminger becomes almost academic, either is far inferior to any of the big three.

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10-20-2010, 10:33 PM
  #55
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I think Girardi has looked great out there, certainly has not regressed.

Wonder how long it will be before Torts realizes there is absolutely no reason to have Eminger here and brings up McD or V-tank

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10-20-2010, 10:54 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post

I mean, Girardi or Eminger becomes almost academic, either is far inferior to any of the big three.
"the big three"? I'm trying to guess who you could mean there. To me Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto are the three core players on the D but since you eliminated Girardi I'm not sure who you mean.

Regardless, I have to disagree with you there. I think Girardi has been the best defenseman this year and is in general highly underrated. And Eminger has been, well, Eminger.

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Old
10-21-2010, 08:58 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcillius View Post
"the big three"? I'm trying to guess who you could mean there. To me Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto are the three core players on the D but since you eliminated Girardi I'm not sure who you mean.

Regardless, I have to disagree with you there. I think Girardi has been the best defenseman this year and is in general highly underrated. And Eminger has been, well, Eminger.
Ah - I mean Staal, Rozy and DZ. Staal and Rozy both PK a lot and have much better GA/mins played numbers than Girardi.

I obviously agree that DG is the better defender (part of the big four, if you will), but your numbers do show he has an oddly close statistical similarity to Eminger.

I find it difficult to chose a best defenseman in this group. I'd guess I'd say Staal, Rozy, then Girardi.

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Old
10-21-2010, 09:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Yeah, for you maybe.

I see your point.

Anyway - if you accept that we should compare Girardi to Eminger, despite the large difference in minutes played overall, then they really don't look too different.

I mean, Girardi or Eminger becomes almost academic, either is far inferior to any of the big three.
Your also not taking into account the level of competition. Girardi is putting up those numbers against far better opponents (No numbers to back that up, primarily an observational point)

On the flip side, Girardi is also on the ice with the Rangers better players.

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Old
10-21-2010, 02:14 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Ah - I mean Staal, Rozy and DZ. Staal and Rozy both PK a lot and have much better GA/mins played numbers than Girardi.

I obviously agree that DG is the better defender (part of the big four, if you will), but your numbers do show he has an oddly close statistical similarity to Eminger.

I find it difficult to chose a best defenseman in this group. I'd guess I'd say Staal, Rozy, then Girardi.
Staal is in a class by himself on this team (although he hasn't played to that level yet). Then you have Girardi. And then...there is a big gap. Big three?? We have a small three (Gilroy, Eminger, and Rozi). Is that what you meant to say?

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Old
10-21-2010, 02:30 PM
  #60
Jaromir Jagr
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Upper echelon of defense:

Staal

Middle echelon:

Girardi
Rozsival

Lower echelon:

Sauer
MDZ

Worst echelon (practically negative):

Eminger
Gilroy

In that order. This is strictly defensive.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Upper echelon of defense:

Staal

Middle echelon:

Girardi
Rozsival

Lower echelon:

Sauer
MDZ

Worst echelon (practically negative):

Eminger
Gilroy

In that order. This is strictly defensive.
I think that's pretty fair.

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:08 PM
  #62
Mio41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers44 View Post
Rozsival and Gilroy are the weakest links. I would also look into trading Girardi because he is ridiculously slow and has regressed a lot since his first 2 seasons.
Girardi is our best defenseman...

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:13 PM
  #63
mullichicken25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Girardi is our best defenseman...
well thats just not true....

overall i'd put him 3rd

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Old
10-21-2010, 06:27 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
well thats just not true....

overall i'd put him 3rd
In your opinion. Who's played better? Who throws the body more?

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Old
10-22-2010, 05:57 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Just gonna point out that in the 1st and 4th games MDZ played defense well.

The train wrecks were the 2nd and 3rd games.

His problem isn't that he's bad at defense, the problem is he's inconsistent when it comes to being good.
Delly is 20 years old. Tyler Myers was all-world last season. Calder Trophy. Played like a potential Norris trophy winner. Myers has made more mistakes and had more bad games this season than he had all of last season.

Inconsistency is to be expected with youth.

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:05 AM
  #66
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MDZ played his best game as a pro last night. Physical. Blocking shots. Breaking up passes. Played with an edge.

Regarding the right for left.

Matt Gilroy to the Stars for Trevor Daley. The Stars have two righties in Robidas and Niskanen. Daley will be a group III this summer. Five lefties. $2.3 million cap number/$2.5 million salary. Joe Nieuwendyk scouted college players in the one season he worked for the Leafs in 2008-09. One of the players he scouted was Gilroy. Toronto offered Gilroy the same deal offered by the Rangers except they offered a 2 way deal. Rangers offered a 1 way deal. Dallas saves $400,000 in salary and the Rangers pick up $550,000 in extra cap money.

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Old
10-22-2010, 10:26 AM
  #67
vipernsx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Looks to me like we'd be better off going even younger--replacing Eminger and Gilroy with McDonagh and Valentenko.
Absolutely. They're the future and they're not any worse. I think right now maybe the better thing is develop them some in the minors, it's easier to develop them there, then bring them up and waive/trade the duds.

Sauer makes some coverage mistakes, probably adjusting to the faster game. I hope he can iron them out, pairing him alongside Staal can be so much better then Rozsival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Brian Leetch was on the XM/Siruis hockey show Power Play on Monday. He said a key part of his development was Rangers coach Michel Bergeron encouraging him to go on the attack whenever he saw the opportunity. Don't worry about your end. Just go. Leetch said that gave him confidence. According to Leetch,Bergeron told him in his thick french accent,"We need you Brian". Bergeron was a pisser. Sal Messina would interview him for the pre-game show before EVERY Ranger game. Home and Away. Bergeron would tell Sal "We needa to shoota the pucka if we whata scora some goals. If we don't shoota the pucka,we aren't gonna scora any goals. It's a very simple".

Leetch said they encouraged him to go and they worked with him on improving in his own end. According to Leetch,that path will help MDZ become a better player. That is what Torts and Sullivan want MDZ to do. After MDZ turned the puck over on the Island,Sullivan gave him a pat of the back. Don't worry about it. Shake it off. Get ready for the next shift. Sergei Zubov was an abomination in his own end until they paired him with Kevin Lowe. Just carry the puck and add offense Zuby and Lowe will handle the rest.
The year Leetch was hurt and Zubov came into his own solidified the Rangers offensive defensive combo on two lines which helped propel them to their cup the next year. They had an offensive defenseman Leetch and Zubov paired with a defensive defenseman Beukeboom and Lowe on their top two defensive lines. What's better is that Leetch was on the left side and Zubov was on the right which meant that the puck came up the ice on either side depending on who was out there.

I really believe this is why they've tried Girardi with MDZ. Girardi as the stay at home guy to take care of things there while MDZ pushes things up. This is why I also believe Torts is the better coach over Renney. Torts and Sully are saying, who care's about the turnover, run up the ice with the puck with reckless abandonment, Renney would be saying, stay back and learn your own zone first and stimee the kids production, Leetch and Zubov would have never have developed in a Renney environment.

I also believe this is a big reason why Torts so strongly wanted Slats to go after Gilroy and Sully recommend taking the opportunity to dumped the wasted space of Voros to acquire Eminger, both right handed offensive sticks, MDZ a left handed stick. Coaching staff has challenged Gilroy to develop his offensive game and given him every opportunity, it just hasn't come through. They want that MDZ (left hand) and that Gilroy (right hand) puck rushing offensive defensman two line combination, it's a catalyst for the rest of the offense.

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Old
10-22-2010, 10:40 AM
  #68
Fitzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
In your opinion. Who's played better? Who throws the body more?
Staal and Rozsival are both better defenseman.

That is not a knock on Girardi. But most physical does not = best.

This team is screwed without any of those three right now, though.

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Old
10-22-2010, 10:48 AM
  #69
mullichicken25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Staal and Rozsival are both better defenseman.

That is not a knock on Girardi. But most physical does not = best.

This team is screwed without any of those three right now, though.
^ what he said

beat me to it

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