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Who do we go after this off-season?

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Old
10-22-2010, 03:46 PM
  #26
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Vinny LeCavalier has an NMC. His cap hit is almost $8 mil per and his contract runs through the 2019-20 season. No way in hell would I touch that and especially not with a new CBA coming up after 2011-12. That contract has disaster written all over it--maybe not in the next two or three seasons but Vinny ain't quite the same player he used to be.

What to go after at this point depends. A playmaking center might certainly be the biggest need. It's not likely that Stepan or Anisimov are really ready to fill that but they both look promising. Backes would be a nice addition. I think St. Louis is going to lock him up before the season is done. He's a top 6 winger with very good skills and a physical game--a more developed version of Dubinsky. Chris Phillips is a guy I might look at depending on how our defense holds up or doesn't hold up. He's a big steady guy--great positionally and physical enough. I'm afraid Richards is going to cost too much. Might be the Rangers try to trade for a 1st line center as well and Boston might be one team to look at there.

As for ever re-signing Drury I wouldn't do it. He's a 3rd liner now. In a couple years he might be a 4th liner. He will also be a +35 contract the next time he signs with anybody. A discount wouldn't be enough. We'd need a super discount.

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10-22-2010, 05:05 PM
  #27
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I think the Seabrook contract situation is worth monitoring. He's due for a big payday, and it should be interesting to see if Chicago can create enough space, or will they have to move him. He would be the perfect partner for Staal on the top pairing. And the D falls into place behind them for years to come.

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:39 PM
  #28
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Anyone have a list of the defensemen currently schedule to become UFA's in July? If we can't sign Richards I'm all for replacing Rozsival with another veteran defenseman, assuming we can move him.

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:43 PM
  #29
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You know, we got this kid named, something like, I dunno, Derek Stepan.

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10-22-2010, 06:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
You know, we got this kid named, something like, I dunno, Derek Stepan.
Who's going to take a few years to develop and refine his game...

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Vinny LeCavalier has an NMC. His cap hit is almost $8 mil per and his contract runs through the 2019-20 season. No way in hell would I touch that and especially not with a new CBA coming up after 2011-12. That contract has disaster written all over it--maybe not in the next two or three seasons but Vinny ain't quite the same player he used to be.
If Sather deals for VL I can honestly say my tenure as a season subscriber is probably over. I can't think of any justification in bringing him in even if it costs us ZERO assets in return.

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Way too early for this. How about we see where we finish first?
I disagree since this season is a throwaway season for the most part all we have to look forward is our future. Waht does piss me off is I friggin posted this same exact thread and the mods removed it in a sec. Still I think the thread is warranted. It could be 90% wasted breath because of how many guys will be signed between now and then

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Who's going to take a few years to develop and refine his game...
At the same time, what if he scores 50 points this year? We have Anisimov who might be stepping up a notch and we have Drury until 2012 and I personally think he'll be here a couple years past that.

I'm down for having him in the lineup and deal with the growing pains no matter how big they may be.

We dealt with DZ for about 50+ games last season. If we can make it through a rookie defenseman's struggles, we can make it through a center's.

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Old
10-22-2010, 06:58 PM
  #34
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I'm split between signing Richards:

He isn't gonna be a wash if we sign him, there's no doubting that.

I'm loving the fact we have homegrown talent and I'm obsessed about them playing.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:04 PM
  #35
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were is Semin on your proposed line changes?

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Originally Posted by rangersfan4390 View Post
I think it's becoming apparent that signing a #1 center to a big contract is a waste of money for our organization with the emergence of stepan and anisimov playing great. Up the middle I believe were fine for the next 5 year with Stepan, Anisimov, Drury (re-sign on discount), and Boyle. That brings me to our scoring issues which will be addressed this off-season I believe. Obviously Semin sticks out as one possible option.

1) Semin (6.5 a year max replace Frolov on the LW with him)
2)Backes (4.5 max for him throw him on out 2nd line as rw)
3) Frolov (4 max for him hopefully he produces)

Those would be my top 3 in order that we should go after. I would love to get Semin and put him on our second line so teams would be in a bind with matching d-pairs. He would immediately solve our secondary scoring issues. But with Kreider and Grachev being left wings it would not make sense to sign a LW which makes it logical to sign Backes and make him and cally interchangeable on our 2nd/3rd lines.

Dubi-Stepan-Gaborik
Kreider-Anisimov-Backes
Avery-Drury-Callahan
Boogaard-Boyle-Prust

I'd be very happpy if we opened next season with that lineup.

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10-22-2010, 07:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
At the same time, what if he scores 50 points this year? We have Anisimov who might be stepping up a notch and we have Drury until 2012 and I personally think he'll be here a couple years past that.

I'm down for having him in the lineup and deal with the growing pains no matter how big they may be.

We dealt with DZ for about 50+ games last season. If we can make it through a rookie defenseman's struggles, we can make it through a center's.
I think Drury is done as a Ranger when his contract expires... I don't think AA nor Stepan will be ready to match up against the top centers in the conference for a little while... They need more experience and more time to refine their games... I'm not sure the organization can afford to wait for Stepan & AA to develop to fill the current void when you consider Gaborik & Lundqvist's longevity & contract situations. It's definitely a tough call.

One thing is for sure, we need a stronger veteran presence on our blueline... Would love to see Rozsival replaced with an upgrade acquired via FA.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:08 PM
  #37
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how is this year a THROW AWAY? Come on now. You CANT be a Rangers fan if you AUTOMATICALLY think the season is a "throw away". If your not rooting FOR US, your AGAINST US.

Why dont you follow DETROIT or San Jose since you think anything but a PROBABLE Stanley Cup is THROW AWAY.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:11 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The only thing you can derive from our current center situation is that our two best centers are under the age of 22, and have been two of our best players to start the year. Comparing those two to anyone is irrelevant. Until we see how they mature over the next couple of years, there's no point in trying to compare them to the rest of the league.

This premature speculation, and constant impatience, is the exact sort of mentality that gets this team into trouble financially. Stop trying to build through the free agent market. Let the kids mature. The fact that we're even seeing threads like this in the 2nd week of the season is a crystal clear indication of how Sather's horrible organizational management has filtered down to the fan base. People are already trying to buy a team for 2011-2012.
Excellent post. Made me wanna comment on something I saw somewhere on this board I forget where. It's ok to dream big and want the best team everyyear. it's even ok albeit irrational to want a dynasty, a consistent stanley cup contender but how often do teams have that? Washington. Pitt, Detrot, SJ with a random Chicago popping in. Befor them it was NJ, Detroit, Ottowa and a random but built team like Edm, Calgary, Carolina, TB would pop up for just one year.

Teams (not counting Detroit which we all know is an abomination haha) don't build consistent stanley cup contenders except with extreme luck. Think the Pats knew what brady would be? Did the Debs KNOW Marty would be possibly the best of all time? The Steelers almost got rid of T.B. One year earlier or later and Pitt maybe gets a different player 1 overall than Crosby. hell they got Fleury one year justy to show how random the results can be.

Demanding the Rangers build a consistent cup contender is just unrealistic and unfair. It defies the structure of modern sports as only a handful of teams from each sport will reach consistent championship contention status and since it takes years to unseat them it understandably means only 5 or 6 teams per 10 years can do it. Hoping however is realistic and I belive the team has given us reason to hope that in the near future with some luck we will hit gold for the first time maybe ever. If the Rangers had luckily chosen Parise, Datsyuk and Mike Green on top of Dubs, cally, Hank, Stepan, MDZ, and Cherepanov doesnt die then y'know what we'd be unstoppable and it would have been ALL luck. Easily EASILY could have happenned we passed all those picks up as did many others. But as much as we might be loathe to admit it to a degree the teams have only limited control over how propsects and FA pickups will turn out. SOmetimes with a Crosby or Redden you gotta know better. Other times it's not so clear.

Reading the team as it is now and making the silly comparisons b/t our 22 year olds and other teams superstars is just an exercise in frustration. maybe the illusion of knowledge allows some of us to feel like we have control over what happens so that when the team fails we can say "Oh but I KNEW how to fix it!" As if to say "I lost but I WIN"

I hope the team sticks with Arty and Step they are showing they are maybe not elite but they won't be far below it. They are two guys who can join Hank, Dubs, Cally, MDZ, Staal, and Gabs. If we can add another superstar or another two guys around what prospal was for us last year we will contend. And every offseason there are 1 or 2 guys like Prospal waiting to be snatched up. It def does not need to be Richards or Kovie or VC at this point.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:17 PM
  #39
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I'd say 1) Get the younger guys done early on 2) go after bigger guys like Richards/Semin maybe a d-man 3) secondary guys like Backes and Frolov.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I think Drury is done as a Ranger when his contract expires... I don't think AA nor Stepan will be ready to match up against the top centers in the conference for a little while... They need more experience and more time to refine their games... I'm not sure the organization can afford to wait for Stepan & AA to develop to fill the current void when you consider Gaborik & Lundqvist's longevity & contract situations. It's definitely a tough call.

One thing is for sure, we need a stronger veteran presence on our blueline... Would love to see Rozsival replaced with an upgrade acquired via FA.
That's for sure.


I might of misread your statement about Gabs and Hank... Anyway...

If we can't afford to wait for Stepan and Anisimov, why should we sign a guy who's probably gonna block that top line from either of them? It'll be nice to have a number one center, but he'll probably take away not only a top spot and more than likely take money away to keep our own players like Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Sauer. Then what if Forlov's in our plan? God, I hope not... Just saying. Even if we sign another bridge for a couple of seasons, we'd still be wasting the years of Gaborik and Lundqvist.

So either way, we're in a situation where we'll have to cut our nose to spite our face.

I'm straight with signing a winger though, like Semin.

For the 1000000000000 time that this will be said on this board, it starts with management. ha

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
how is this year a THROW AWAY? Come on now. You CANT be a Rangers fan if you AUTOMATICALLY think the season is a "throw away". If your not rooting FOR US, your AGAINST US.

Why dont you follow DETROIT or San Jose since you think anything but a PROBABLE Stanley Cup is THROW AWAY.
Throw Away is a bit harsh. But honestly not that far off the mark. I'd call it a development year. Could we have a good season and make the playoffs? Absolutely. But the reality is this is probably not a Stanley Cup contender. There is still not enough top end talent...and the D is very young, albeit promising. I'm rooting for the team and I want them to win. But in the back of my mind I know that better things are in store for the Rangers next season and beyond.

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Old
10-22-2010, 07:48 PM
  #42
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If we somehow trade Rozy, how 'bout getting Pitkanen?

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10-22-2010, 08:12 PM
  #43
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That's for sure.


I might of misread your statement about Gabs and Hank... Anyway...

If we can't afford to wait for Stepan and Anisimov, why should we sign a guy who's probably gonna block that top line from either of them? It'll be nice to have a number one center, but he'll probably take away not only a top spot and more than likely take money away to keep our own players like Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Sauer. Then what if Forlov's in our plan? God, I hope not... Just saying. Even if we sign another bridge for a couple of seasons, we'd still be wasting the years of Gaborik and Lundqvist.
Because neither of the two young centers are ready to assume the #1 Center role and compete against the top centers in the league and this glaring void on our team is hurting our compete level both now and in the foreseeable future.... Henke is ready to compete and win now.... Gaborik has 3 years left on his contract after this season.... What if neither Stepan nor AA is ready to assume that role and be productive/consistent in that position after this season? What if they're not ready the following year? I think right now both players are benefiting from not having to match up against other team's top lines and defensive pairings.... Plus it's never a bad thing to have good depth at Center... There's always the concern for injuries and the option of shifting players around to various positions.... Ideally if we sign a #1C, it's on a shorter duration deal (3-4 years) and we would always have the option of dealing said player if our home grown talent was ready to assume their role. But the risk of not addressing the void at Center and waiting for players to assume & fill that void, could be ill-timed when you consider the other contracts on the books.

Drury's coming off the books after next season... I don't see Frolov getting re-signed unless he posts 20G, 50+ points.... Not too optimistic about that with how he's currently looking out there and with Gaborik injured...

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Old
10-22-2010, 08:17 PM
  #44
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When Dubi, Cally, and Anisimov's contracts need to get re-upped and redden is back on the cap during the summer what will we do?

Redden goes to Europe?
Rozy gets traded?
or... Sather waits till Redden gets sent down again to resign one of our young players? Thay would miss some camp time like Dubinsky two years ago, but we would get the 6+M in cap space back...

I think this needs to be figured out along with signing or trading for big time free agents too...

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10-22-2010, 08:54 PM
  #45
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Let Anisimov and Stepan develop and see where we are with them.

I have zero confidence in Sather with regards to Brad Richards, He would cost to much to trade for and waiting till the summer just gives Glen the itchy trigger finger where he'll end up doing something really stupid that could set this team back even further than the contracts of Drury, Gomez and Redden have.

I would fear Sather giving Richards something like $8m per for 7yrs and that is something we can ill afford to do. The plan should be let our kids who are in the lineup develop, through the next few years bring in Kreider, Grachev, Mcdonagh and Mcilrath. There may be some surprises and players like Werek and Hagelin may get there too. Hopefully this formula puts us in a position where we aren't a team that is just squeeking into a playoff spot and are in fact a team that could be dangerous come playoff time.

If we are looking like a dangerous team then thats when a trade can be made to address whatever needs we have at that time. Patience is the most important thing for the at least the next 2 years i'd say.

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Old
10-23-2010, 09:25 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The only thing you can derive from our current center situation is that our two best centers are under the age of 22, and have been two of our best players to start the year. Comparing those two to anyone is irrelevant. Until we see how they mature over the next couple of years, there's no point in trying to compare them to the rest of the league.

This premature speculation, and constant impatience, is the exact sort of mentality that gets this team into trouble financially. Stop trying to build through the free agent market. Let the kids mature. The fact that we're even seeing threads like this in the 2nd week of the season is a crystal clear indication of how Sather's horrible organizational management has filtered down to the fan base. People are already trying to buy a team for 2011-2012.
I don't agree.

Getting Chara was instrumentual for Boston, getting Joe T was instrumental for SJ -- in getting those teams out of the cellar really. Getting Drury and Redden was horrible for us.

Whats the conclusion you can draw from that? Yep, that you need to get the right guys.

Look I know more of less what type of players Stepan and AA will become. Not in terms of points, I could be way off there. But Stepan will end short of what Parise was for NJ, Anisimov can become a Zajac type of center.

Gabby, while being elite at it, is a one way scorer.

We have MZA in the system who have awesome abilitys, but also some weakness.

A top notch offensive mind would help us a lot.

With that, we would give our kids a chance to develop.

Without that, we won't give our kids that chance.

So I think you gotta be really really careful with the approch you suggest. Just because Sather have done a horrible job, it don't mean that you should do everything 180 degrees different then how he did it.

Its time to do the right thing in NY.

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Old
10-23-2010, 09:39 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The only thing you can derive from our current center situation is that our two best centers are under the age of 22, and have been two of our best players to start the year. Comparing those two to anyone is irrelevant. Until we see how they mature over the next couple of years, there's no point in trying to compare them to the rest of the league.

This premature speculation, and constant impatience, is the exact sort of mentality that gets this team into trouble financially. Stop trying to build through the free agent market. Let the kids mature. The fact that we're even seeing threads like this in the 2nd week of the season is a crystal clear indication of how Sather's horrible organizational management has filtered down to the fan base. People are already trying to buy a team for 2011-2012.
In almost any instance, I'm in total agreement with you. I've always been one of the loudest supporters here of not signing free agents. I wanted a real rebuild, I was completely against every single one of the major free agent signings this team has made (not that he isn't a great player, but that even includes Gaborik), etc. But in this particular case, I don't agree.

The fact of the matter is we aren't going to rebuild the right way, we DO have Gaborik, Lundqvist isn't going to be a young man forever, and as impressive as Stepan and Anisimov are (and I love both of them), players like Richards don't come along every day. I think what has happened is that the horrible management of Sather which you cited has blinded even very rational, intelligent observers like yourself to the good that free agency can bring. Richards is the anti-Gomez, the anti-Redden.

Richards is the real deal, and players of his caliber RARELY reach the free agent market. Especially playmaking centers. I'm 100 percent against trading for Lecavalier (who I believe is an inferior player to Richards, and whose contract stinks), and while I would be willing to trade for Spezza, I still feel that Ottawa would be incredibly foolish to trade him away. But I'm all for getting Richards. He's the right kind of free agent to splurge on. Finally, you're paying money for someone that's actually worth it. It's immeasurable the impact an 80-90 point superb playmaker can make on a team, not to mention his experience, leadership and intangibles and the way that can rub off on a young team like this.

And if our organization is as deep with solid young players as we are led to believe, then parting with 2-3 of those pieces for something worthwhile should not be a problem. I'd be willing to do that (depending on which pieces we're talking about) if it meant nabbing Richards with a guaranteed contract extension.

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I wanted Koivu, Bergeron, and Backes in that order.

Koivu and Bergeron were both locked up. Backes is still out there.

I'm iffy on Richards at the moment.
So of the four players you mentioned, the one guy that you're iffy about is the one who is EASILY the best among them?

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10-23-2010, 01:52 PM
  #48
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In relation to our kids picking it up -- I become more favorable of going after Richards. The problem is the following, you can count on Richards to chip in offensively and you can count on him to be solid all over -- but you can definitely not in any way or form count on Richards to carry your team. Like he won't get his team up ice, but once there he will be able to chip in offensively.

I am currently of the impression that if you sign a UFA and gets something, its good, no matter if you over paid. Like you give someone 95 pts money, and gets 75 pts -- thats okey. Thats worth the overpayment, because without that player you get "75 pts" less. There are no options. What you are afraid of, thats that you give someone like 70 pts money, and gets nothing. A big fat zero. And there is a bigger risk for that then whats in plain sight. Why? Often the guy you sign have just recived his big pay day, he have had success in one environement for a long time, now he have to adjust with a ton of pressure on him from day one et c.

Thats really why I wouldn't mind LeCavalier, despite him having a nutz contract et c. He is so good offensively that he will score his 70 pts no matter what. And thats basically what would be expected from him. No matter who he plays with, no matter how much pressure there is et c.

If you have a solid team without top end ability, thats like destined to finnish 7th to 10th overall in a conference, and you sign Richards, odds are that he won't make that team much better. He wouldn't be able to lift then against the better teams. He would chip in some offense, but not lift the team. Like a Kovalchuk is no guarantee to make his team better either, but he would definitely put a 7th to 10th team in play in all games.

I don't think a Kovalchuk is what we must have. But I think we need someone who can carry the heavy load some. We can either get that by picking up someone who is on the rise, or by going after the few who might possibly become availble. We won't get that from with in.

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10-23-2010, 01:58 PM
  #49
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I don't agree.

Getting Chara was instrumentual for Boston, getting Joe T was instrumental for SJ -- in getting those teams out of the cellar really. Getting Drury and Redden was horrible for us.

Whats the conclusion you can draw from that? Yep, that you need to get the right guys.

Look I know more of less what type of players Stepan and AA will become. Not in terms of points, I could be way off there. But Stepan will end short of what Parise was for NJ, Anisimov can become a Zajac type of center.

Gabby, while being elite at it, is a one way scorer.

We have MZA in the system who have awesome abilitys, but also some weakness.

A top notch offensive mind would help us a lot.

With that, we would give our kids a chance to develop.

Without that, we won't give our kids that chance.

So I think you gotta be really really careful with the approch you suggest. Just because Sather have done a horrible job, it don't mean that you should do everything 180 degrees different then how he did it.

Its time to do the right thing in NY.
Thornton was not a free agent signing. Half a dozen games into Stepan's career, there is simply no concrete way to project his contributions to this team in the future. Anisimov looks like he has taken his game to an entirely different level. Saying we need Richards to act as a buffer for them, when they're already proving to be two of our best players, makes little sense to me.

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10-23-2010, 02:13 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
In almost any instance, I'm in total agreement with you. I've always been one of the loudest supporters here of not signing free agents. I wanted a real rebuild, I was completely against every single one of the major free agent signings this team has made (not that he isn't a great player, but that even includes Gaborik), etc. But in this particular case, I don't agree.

The fact of the matter is we aren't going to rebuild the right way, we DO have Gaborik, Lundqvist isn't going to be a young man forever, and as impressive as Stepan and Anisimov are (and I love both of them), players like Richards don't come along every day. I think what has happened is that the horrible management of Sather which you cited has blinded even very rational, intelligent observers like yourself to the good that free agency can bring. Richards is the anti-Gomez, the anti-Redden.

Richards is the real deal, and players of his caliber RARELY reach the free agent market. Especially playmaking centers. I'm 100 percent against trading for Lecavalier (who I believe is an inferior player to Richards, and whose contract stinks), and while I would be willing to trade for Spezza, I still feel that Ottawa would be incredibly foolish to trade him away. But I'm all for getting Richards. He's the right kind of free agent to splurge on. Finally, you're paying money for someone that's actually worth it. It's immeasurable the impact an 80-90 point superb playmaker can make on a team, not to mention his experience, leadership and intangibles and the way that can rub off on a young team like this.

And if our organization is as deep with solid young players as we are led to believe, then parting with 2-3 of those pieces for something worthwhile should not be a problem. I'd be willing to do that (depending on which pieces we're talking about) if it meant nabbing Richards with a guaranteed contract extension.
I really have nothing against Richards. He's a fantastic player, and I really enjoy watching him play. You're absolutely right in the fact that he would be a great addition to the team.

Also, I really have no problem with acquiring free agents in general. What I do have a problem with, is the manner in which we acquire them. Free agency, to me at least, is the way you fill the holes in your lineup after you have developed your core. Not the other way around. Yes, the Gomez, Drury and Redden signings have made me weary about free agency, but that doesn't mean I want to avoid it entirely.

We do have a solid core, and a quality group of prospects as well, but that doesn't mean we should gamble on the unproven ones coming through. Trading Dubinsky when we have Kreider on the farm is not a good idea. Trading Dubinsky when Kreider has proven he can play in the NHL and contribute? That's something I can get on board with.

I understand that Gaborik and Hank aren't getting any younger, but they're also not even 30 years old yet. Hank has another 7+ years in him, and Gaborik's health is a gamble regardless of what the rest of the team looks like. I don't want to rush the process, just because the age of our two best players is higher each year.

I really dread a scenario where we end up with Richards for 7 years, and $55MM, and then we watch our young core go elsewhere when we can't trade a 35 year old Richards who's game is starting to decline.

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