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Colorado@San Jose--preseason finale

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Old
10-04-2003, 09:02 PM
  #76
4hockey8
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OK - who gets cut tomorrow?

Here is the order, IMO:

Smith
McCormick
Svatos
Liles

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10-04-2003, 09:05 PM
  #77
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Now we get ready for the regular season opener on October 10th at home against Chicago.

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10-04-2003, 09:07 PM
  #78
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I think McCormick gets cut. Either him or Svatos, although I think they both have earned a spot.

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10-04-2003, 09:15 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I think McCormick gets cut. Either him or Svatos, although I think they both have earned a spot.
The Avs are going to cut a defenseman. They already have 14 forwards, but they are currently carrying eight defenders. Though there is the question of the severity of Worrell's knee injury. Yet it looks as though its Smith versus Liles concerning the last roster spot.

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10-04-2003, 09:19 PM
  #80
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I know, but my logic is this. WHy keep them on the roster unless they both get a roster spot and will play each night...

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10-04-2003, 09:21 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori_18_23
The Avs are going to cut a defenseman. They already have 14 forwards, but they are currently carrying eight defenders. Though there is the question of the severity of Worrell's knee injury. Yet it looks as though its Smith versus Liles concerning the last roster spot.
it completely depends on what the do with mcallister. the way they've been playing him, he could be the 15th forward, which makes smith the 7th d and a FORWARD(mccormick)getting cut.

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10-04-2003, 09:21 PM
  #82
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Well maybe the Avs will go with a 22 man roster, but I think Aubin's departure changed their plans. If Worrell can't go in the early going than both of the rookies will get playing time.

Somebody was asking as to who Foote's defensive partner was on the 2 on 1 sequence that lead to the SJ goal...it was Skrastins.

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10-04-2003, 09:25 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup
it completely depends on what the do with mcallister. the way they've been playing him, he could be the 15th forward, which makes smith the 7th d and a FORWARD(mccormick)getting cut.
I still think they will go the 14/7/2 route. I don't think McAllister is going to play several games at forward. I could see the experiment continue if the Avs have a rash of injuries. McAllister has the team made. I don't think they will keep both Liles and Smith, I think the final cut comes between those two. Losing Aubin changed their plans as I felt he would have made the team and than one of Svatos or McCormick would have been sent down. The waiver draft changed the Avs decision making.

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10-04-2003, 10:14 PM
  #84
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thats EXACTLY what i've been saying. if aubin isn't taken, they can send mccormick down where he belongs ALONG with smith and scratch aubin all they want. svatos has earned his spot on this team and i beleive liles has as well, despite the last 2 games. without aubin, the avs now are going to have to sit mccormick a bunch which will just screw up his development. the kid isn't going to be a top liner, but he does have a pretty decent offensive upside along with decent defense and loves to crash and bang, none of which will be useful in the pressbox. it just screws mccormick out of a roster spot that he has seemed to earn. maybe they'll scratch worrell a bunch and mccormick will get a shot. who knows. i guess we'll see tomorrow who gets scratched.

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10-04-2003, 10:15 PM
  #85
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Since McAllister was a healthy scratch, I'd say he is a safe bet to make the team. Before I thought Smith was gonna get cut, but now I think it's gonna be McCormick. I don't think he takes a spot over Svatos, and nobody else deserves to lose a spot. Cummins is the spare foward, and Smith is the spare defensman, with McAllister being able to fill in for both roles depending on who's out, and how much toughness and size they need.(i.e. Worell being out.) I think Liles still makes it despite his slip in play the last couple games. I think Granato has been giving him lots of minutes, along with the other rookies, to see how he can play in every situation. Which is probably why Svatos was out on the penalty kill, and Morris wasn't getting that many minutes tonight, as some of the guys already mentioned. I read somewhere(I forgot where, maybe here) that Granato had been testing all the rookies, and had been putting them in all situations, almost to the extent where they would fail.

Here's how I see it....

Fowards:

Tanguay - Forsberg - Hejduk
Kariya - Sakic - Selane
Battaglia - Nikolishin - Svatos
Worrell - Hahl - Hinote

Ex. Foward - Cummins

Defenseman:

Morris - Foote
Skoula - Blake
Skrastins - Liles

Ex. Defenseman - McAllister, Smith

Those defensive pairings might not be applicable, since it sounds like(from what you guys said during the game) Granato and Cloutier might be carrying over the constant rotating of defensive pairings from last year. Which I'm not so sure is a good idea. I think it has it's bonuses, but the drawbacks in my opinion are too great. It seems to me like having the same partner for most of the season would make it easier on the defensman and their decision making, specifically in regards to their reaction time. For example a guy like Foote has said before that he needs a partner who is predictable so he knows what he is going to do all the time. Which is why he was never paired with Ozo, and was paired with De Vries so much. This applies to a lesser extant to all defensman. If Blakie sees an opportunity to pinch, he has to think for a second who he is with. If he's with Skoula or maybe Liles, it might be a bigger risk than if say, he's with Foote or Skrastins who might hang back more. Now this whole process might only take a split second, but hockey is the fastest game on earth, and it only takes a split second, and a little bit of hesitation for something to go wrong. Hockey players need to react, not think. And if a defensman knows what his partner is going to do, than this makes his decisions easier and quicker, and gives him that much needed confidence in his approach.

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10-04-2003, 10:20 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup
thats EXACTLY what i've been saying. if aubin isn't taken, they can send mccormick down where he belongs ALONG with smith and scratch aubin all they want. svatos has earned his spot on this team and i beleive liles has as well, despite the last 2 games. without aubin, the avs now are going to have to sit mccormick a bunch which will just screw up his development. the kid isn't going to be a top liner, but he does have a pretty decent offensive upside along with decent defense and loves to crash and bang, none of which will be useful in the pressbox. it just screws mccormick out of a roster spot that he has seemed to earn. maybe they'll scratch worrell a bunch and mccormick will get a shot. who knows. i guess we'll see tomorrow who gets scratched.

You are under the assumption that McCormick will get benched alot and I don't see it the same way. I don't see Cummins and Worrell playing 82 games. If McCormick performs he will remain in the lineup. I don't see him as a top six forward, but I see him getting quality minutes if he remains with the team and performs.

I can see the Avs starting the season with both McCormick and Svatos, but I don't think it will be a permanent situation. Things have a way of changing very quickly.

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10-04-2003, 10:27 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
Since McAllister was a healthy scratch, I'd say he is a safe bet to make the team. Before I thought Smith was gonna get cut, but now I think it's gonna be McCormick. I don't think he takes a spot over Svatos, and nobody else deserves to lose a spot. Cummins is the spare foward, and Smith is the spare defensman, with McAllister being able to fill in for both roles depending on who's out, and how much toughness and size they need.(i.e. Worell being out.) I think Liles still makes it despite his slip in play the last couple games. I think Granato has been giving him lots of minutes, along with the other rookies, to see how he can play in every situation. Which is probably why Svatos was out on the penalty kill, and Morris wasn't getting that many minutes tonight, as some of the guys already mentioned. I read somewhere(I forgot where, maybe here) that Granato had been testing all the rookies, and had been putting them in all situations, almost to the extent where they would fail.

Here's how I see it....

Fowards:

Tanguay - Forsberg - Hejduk
Kariya - Sakic - Selane
Battaglia - Nikolishin - Svatos
Worrell - Hahl - Hinote

Ex. Foward - Cummins

Defenseman:

Morris - Foote
Skoula - Blake
Skrastins - Liles

Ex. Defenseman - McAllister, Smith

Those defensive pairings might not be applicable, since it sounds like(from what you guys said during the game) Granato and Cloutier might be carrying over the constant rotating of defensive pairings from last year. Which I'm not so sure is a good idea. I think it has it's bonuses, but the drawbacks in my opinion are too great. It seems to me like having the same partner for most of the season would make it easier on the defensman and their decision making, specifically in regards to their reaction time. For example a guy like Foote has said before that he needs a partner who is predictable so he knows what he is going to do all the time. Which is why he was never paired with Ozo, and was paired with De Vries so much. This applies to a lesser extant to all defensman. If Blakie sees an opportunity to pinch, he has to think for a second who he is with. If he's with Skoula or maybe Liles, it might be a bigger risk than if say, he's with Foote or Skrastins who might hang back more. Now this whole process might only take a split second, but hockey is the fastest game on earth, and it only takes a split second, and a little bit of hesitation for something to go wrong. Hockey players need to react, not think. And if a defensman knows what his partner is going to do, than this makes his decisions easier and quicker, and gives him that much needed confidence in his approach.
Interesting lineup. It could happen, but I still think they will carry the two standard extra forwards expecially with Worrell's injury. McAllister does add versitality in the eyes of the coaching staff, but I still think he will play mostly defense. If the Avs feel the necessity to use him at forward, I would imagine it would be a time which the Avs have some injury concerns.

It makes for some interesting conversation as opening night approaches. I personally would prefer to see one of the youngsters sent down. Yet I think initially to start the season, but the youngsters will be in the opening day lineup.

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10-04-2003, 10:30 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori_18_23
I can see the Avs starting the season with both McCormick and Svatos, but I don't think it will be a permanent situation. Things have a way of changing very quickly.
Good point. Lineups, are almost never the same on opening day as they are at the end of the season. Lots of experimenting goes on early in the season. Even if Granato won't do it anywhere near to the same extent as Hartley did. At least he has kept Tanguay on the same line, that really hurt him last year I think, and contributed to his ongoing slump.

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10-04-2003, 10:31 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
Good point. Lineups, are almost never the same on opening day as they are at the end of the season. Lots of experimenting goes on early in the season. Even if Granato won't do it anywhere near to the same extent as Hartley did. At least he has kept Tanguay on the same line, that really hurt him last year I think, and contributed to his ongoing slump.
Exactly. Remember the Steve Brule situation and how quickly that died last season? What was Hartley thinking on that one though

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10-04-2003, 10:50 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori_18_23
Exactly. Remember the Steve Brule situation and how quickly that died last season? What was Hartley thinking on that one though
Yea that was an enigma. Hartley didn't get the clue either until like a month before he was fired. He was still mixing and matching. I liked Hartley, and was shocked and a bit upset when he got fired(even though I have grown to see it was inevitable, the players just needed a change, still htink he should have been given a shot till the end of the season) but I never figured out why he did that so much. I remember hearing about the line combinations during pre-season last year, and thinking, hey that's a good idea, it builds chemistry for later on in the season when players are forced to play with each other if there's an injury or for some other reason. But then he just kept doing it. I remember seeing Brule penciled in as the left wing on the top line on opening day, and thinking what is the point of this. But I went along with it, because Hartley was, and is great coach, and a great hockey mind. This is why I was disapointed when Hartley was let go. Granato, may be a great motivator, but I just don't see how a guy (no matter how smart, and how much he was a student of the game all those years) with no coaching experience, can be smart enough tactically to make the necesary changes, in say hypothetically, a playoff series against Minnesota. But then again with all the veteran talent we have this year, maybe I could coach them and get the job done. I was actually hoping Barry Melrose would have got the job, I thought he would have been a great fit. He is great with his players, and has won chapionships as a coach before at most all levels, and almost in the NHL too. He's even a proponent of an offensive system like Pierre wants.

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10-04-2003, 11:28 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
I was actually hoping Barry Melrose would have got the job, I thought he would have been a great fit.
Hahah, with the way Melrose talks about the Avs, he woulda been soiling himself at the thought of coaching the Avs

PL just has these strange ways. Yea, there were a lot of good candidates for the job, but he wanted to keep it internal. Jacques Cloutier, the longtime assistant coach actually got the original nod, but declined it. That in effect, led to Granato's hiring. Kinda weird considering Hartley originally hired Granato as his AC.

Hahah, what's next? Granato getting fired and Tocchet becoming the coach of the Avs

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10-05-2003, 04:38 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118
Since McAllister was a healthy scratch, I'd say he is a safe bet to make the team. Before I thought Smith was gonna get cut, but now I think it's gonna be McCormick. I don't think he takes a spot over Svatos, and nobody else deserves to lose a spot. Cummins is the spare foward, and Smith is the spare defensman, with McAllister being able to fill in for both roles depending on who's out, and how much toughness and size they need.(i.e. Worell being out.) I think Liles still makes it despite his slip in play the last couple games. I think Granato has been giving him lots of minutes, along with the other rookies, to see how he can play in every situation. Which is probably why Svatos was out on the penalty kill, and Morris wasn't getting that many minutes tonight, as some of the guys already mentioned. I read somewhere(I forgot where, maybe here) that Granato had been testing all the rookies, and had been putting them in all situations, almost to the extent where they would fail.

Here's how I see it....

Fowards:

Tanguay - Forsberg - Hejduk
Kariya - Sakic - Selane
Battaglia - Nikolishin - Svatos
Worrell - Hahl - Hinote

Ex. Foward - Cummins

Defenseman:

Morris - Foote
Skoula - Blake
Skrastins - Liles

Ex. Defenseman - McAllister, Smith

Those defensive pairings might not be applicable, since it sounds like(from what you guys said during the game) Granato and Cloutier might be carrying over the constant rotating of defensive pairings from last year. Which I'm not so sure is a good idea. I think it has it's bonuses, but the drawbacks in my opinion are too great. It seems to me like having the same partner for most of the season would make it easier on the defensman and their decision making, specifically in regards to their reaction time. For example a guy like Foote has said before that he needs a partner who is predictable so he knows what he is going to do all the time. Which is why he was never paired with Ozo, and was paired with De Vries so much. This applies to a lesser extant to all defensman. If Blakie sees an opportunity to pinch, he has to think for a second who he is with. If he's with Skoula or maybe Liles, it might be a bigger risk than if say, he's with Foote or Skrastins who might hang back more. Now this whole process might only take a split second, but hockey is the fastest game on earth, and it only takes a split second, and a little bit of hesitation for something to go wrong. Hockey players need to react, not think. And if a defensman knows what his partner is going to do, than this makes his decisions easier and quicker, and gives him that much needed confidence in his approach.
Foppa 2118 is dead on with his assessment of D-men needing to know what their partners are going to do. I have seen over the past years numerous games where the same guys played together at all levels. When that happens, it is readily apparent even from the stands that the comfort level allows the players to anticipate rather than react. This totally changes the player's opportunities. I can't believe that Granato doesn't understand this. The key issue for him is finding which pairings work the best for his 6 D and leave them there! I believe a great example of this is that Liles seemed to work most of the camp with Foote; when they played together in the intrasquad game, he seemed to anticipate what Foote was going to do or where he was going to be. That certainly didn't happen in the past couple of games paired with Morris.

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Old
10-05-2003, 06:28 AM
  #93
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blake = morris
liles/skoula - foote
skrastins - liles/skoula


i think it has to be this way. We have 4 offensive d-men and two stay at home defensemen. Blake and Morris are good enough to be paired together and they played pretty well together last season.

I guess it really dpends on if Skoula continues to play poorly. Hopefully he can turn it around this season ;/.

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10-05-2003, 09:11 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jori_18_23
Exactly. Remember the Steve Brule situation and how quickly that died last season? What was Hartley thinking on that one though
Haha, I still remember the lines for the season opener:

Brule - Sakic - Vrbata
Reinprecht - Forsberg - Hejduk
Tanguay - Aubin - Keane
Messier - Shantz - Parker

IR - Hinote, McAmmond

Blake - Morris
Foote - de Vries
Skoula - Muir

Roy
Aebischer

Yuck.

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Old
10-05-2003, 03:17 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man
Haha, I still remember the lines for the season opener:

Brule - Sakic - Vrbata
Reinprecht - Forsberg - Hejduk
Tanguay - Aubin - Keane
Messier - Shantz - Parker

IR - Hinote, McAmmond

Blake - Morris
Foote - de Vries
Skoula - Muir

Roy
Aebischer

Yuck.
Looka the bottom two lines. Even with Tanguay down there, this year is a vast improvement from that. Gosh I wonder if Tanguay will lose some confidence playing on the third from the begining of the season, without even deserving it.

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