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Old
10-23-2010, 08:30 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Spezza is a good player but there are players that should be off limits for him. He was a scratch last night in buffalo. I havent read why but he was hurt last year and the season before his numbers dropped drastically from the norm. Yeah that could be one bad season, however, this is someone making around $7 million, we cant afford to take a chance while giving up our best players.
He may very well have been scratched in anticipation of a deal going down.

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Old
10-23-2010, 08:33 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
This would be a steal of a trade if Sather could pull this off.. Grachev's value is taking a hit, losing Dubinsky and Rozy would definately hurt but getting a talented first line 27 year old center in Spezza would be worth it. He probably needs a change of scenary.

I just dont see how Ottawa would accept this value in a trade, however you may be right as Boston did trade JT for similar or worse value... All I can say is WOW if Sather can pull this off.
Ottawa did it with Heatley too. You have diverging philosophies in the NHL concerning the cap. Some think you need stars surrounded by role players, Hawks, Pens, Caps. Some think you need balance, Buf, Col, LA. I mean that in contract terms, not talent. All of those teams have talent.

We know Ottawa likes Dubinsky, we were willing to part with him for Heatley, Staal and Callahan were the sticking points. I think he is the starting point so you add from there. I like Dubinsky on the wing, he's finding his game, but you give to get.

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Old
10-23-2010, 08:34 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Chances are zero we get him, but he is what we need. I'd easily move one of Anisimov or Stepan for Spezza along with a lot of other parts.

Wow. As an Isles fan, I'd say 'do it' because I think it would be a mistake.


I have an underlying feeling Spezza has the potential to be another Wade Redden for any team that takes him on. See him being on the decline quite soon.

Anisimov/Stepan have too much upside to mortgage the future.

If you want Spezza, you do it for picks... an unknown quantity.

Anisimov/Stepan are better known quantities.

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Old
10-23-2010, 08:38 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
He may very well have been scratched in anticipation of a deal going down.
No. No he was not.

He aggravated a groin injury he got earlier in the season.

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Old
10-23-2010, 08:48 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Off limits: Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky, Staal, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Callahan, Girardi.

Anyone after that fine.

Giving up the core of a team and the team's future that has been building nicely, for another single high priced player is typical old Rangers BS philosophy that they have been migrating away from.

Not a trade I'd like to see, at all. Step in the wrong direction. And not financially feasible at this point in time with 7mil Drury, 6+mil Lundqvist, 5+mil Rozsival, 7+mil Gaborik on the roster.

Besides that, trade for Spezza and kiss Anisimov, Del Zotto, Dubinsky, and other RFAs goodbye.

TEAM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>high priced individuals acquired externally.

No no no. Stick to the plan. Continue BUILDING the team. This WILL be a VERY good team very soon. All it takes is PATIENCE and not deviating from the plan.
Agree.... IF Ottawa wants to give him away for the Rangers junk, fine. But they wont.

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Old
10-23-2010, 09:16 AM
  #56
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Let's trade our bad guys making lots of money and draft picks for their good guy.

Works every time.

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Old
10-23-2010, 09:50 AM
  #57
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So even IF Ottawa would take Roszival's salary back in the trade, who is going to log his 20+ minutes a game?

I would trade him in a heart beat for a player like Spezza, but it's going to create another hole on the backend, unless the Rangers went to try to acquire a player like Bieska from Vancouver, but again, more salary would have to be moved.

Don't see a deal going down between these two teams mainly because of salary issues.

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:19 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Let's trade our bad guys making lots of money and draft picks for their good guy.

Works every time.
See Pavel Bure trade...

See Jaromir Jagr trade...


just playing, I know the point your making and your right. Everyone wants a top center, but no one is willing to package more than Rozsival and Todd White....
I for one would up the ante and toss in Christensen, lol

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:32 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
See Pavel Bure trade...

See Jaromir Jagr trade...


just playing, I know the point your making and your right. Everyone wants a top center, but no one is willing to package more than Rozsival and Todd White....
I for one would up the ante and toss in Christensen, lol
lol...Igor Ulanov and Philip Novak right? I mean granted, Bure went down to injury, but if he was able to rebound from that it would have been the biggest fleecing ever!

Igor Ulanov might have been the worst defenseman I have ever seen here. Just flat out terrible!


I think Sather has the pieces to do this one...But they key to it is salary going the other way. Maybe a multi player swap for both teams?

For Ott, gotta wonder if they might be interested in say McDonough, Grachev, 1st rounder and then maybe some salary like people are mentioning Rosy, or maybe even Chris Drury? what if Kovy and Spezza came in with Dru and Rosy going the other way...Dru rosy,mcdonough, 1st rounder, gilroy ...or Grachev?

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:34 AM
  #60
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This team has to be patient. If they can wait it out and sign Brad Richards as a UFA while giving up no assets all of sudden they are real solid for years to come down the middle.........Richards, Anisimov, Stepan, Boyle..........pretty nice

Drury, Rozy have to come off the books so really they are two years away although I think they can move Rozy in the last year of his deal. He makes only 3 million in actual dollars so a team with a good cap would take him

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:36 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msg View Post
I rather go after Brad Richards in the offseason. Than giving up a couple of good young players for Spezza. If the rangers want to become a legitimate cup contender they need to add an impact player like Richards to the young group they have right now. Instead of trading them away.

They can look to trade Rozy in the summer to clear up the cap space for that. By next year hopefully some of the younger defensemen will step up and be able to take on the minutes Rozy plays.
Rozy's salary for next season drops to only $3 mil (only, haha), so it's not that huge of a hit for a 2nd tier d-man in today's NHL.

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:43 AM
  #62
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Stepan is off-limits.

Anisimov could be had.

Arty, Grachev, Drury and a 1st

for Spezza

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Old
10-23-2010, 10:45 AM
  #63
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Del Zotto- they dont need, Karrlson and Gonchar are their offensive weapons
Dubinsky- they did ask for in the Heater trade. possible piece.
Staal- no way
Stepan- 90% not happening
Kreider- see Stepan*
Grachev- Very possible piece
Rozi- Ott needs D depth + salary going back, very likely
Chad Johnson- Lerner is very young, maybe they feel Johnson gives them depth to deal Elliot or Leclaire???
Anisimov- 50/50, Ideally we want to keep him but you have to give to get. I'd rather we didnt.
Our 2011 1st- Considering the uncertanty of this year, I'd hate to give up a top 5 pick.
Gilroy- See Del Zotto* but Glen has his ways and it is $2mill to match up salaries

Very slim chance we land Spezza with what we have but who knows.

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10-23-2010, 10:46 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Just ridiculous. Pretty much no one is off limits for Spezza.
That's your opinion and I disagree especially when you consider the teams cap predicamne tand our need to sign guys this summer. You have to look at the whole picture this would lead to losing whoever we trade plus a Cally, Dubs, Artie, Sauer, etc we need to re-sign this summer. Give me those 4 and our draft picks (Should be low) this year over Spezza at this point. 3 years ago trade some of em but now is a different time.

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10-23-2010, 10:53 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Del Zotto- they dont need, Karrlson and Gonchar are their offensive weapons
Dubinsky- they did ask for in the Heater trade. possible piece.
Staal- no way
Stepan- 90% not happening
Kreider- see Stepan*
Grachev- Very possible piece
Rozi- Ott needs D depth + salary going back, very likely
Chad Johnson- Lerner is very young, maybe they feel Johnson gives them depth to deal Elliot or Leclaire???
Anisimov- 50/50, Ideally we want to keep him but you have to give to get. I'd rather we didnt.
Our 2011 1st- Considering the uncertanty of this year, I'd hate to give up a top 5 pick.
Gilroy- See Del Zotto* but Glen has his ways and it is $2mill to match up salaries

Very slim chance we land Spezza with what we have but who knows.
I don't think this is as far fetched as some might think. In fact if he is on the block, I think the Rangers would be considered front runners to get him. The pieces fit pretty good. Rangers have a wealth of propsect depth. they have an extra picks in an early round(which means they could consider 1st expendable for the return)...Most importantly the Rangers need a top line Center for Gaborik.

The only thing to me that could put up the road block is the cap hit.

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Old
10-23-2010, 11:05 AM
  #66
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Out of all the player I listed that we know have a chance of being moved Stepan, Kreider & MDZ are the ones I be pissed about losing.

But then again, I'm in the crowd that would rather build for the next few years and see whats available FA' wise in roughly the 2013ish season and fill in the blanks when we know what Kreider & Stepan actually are, and if MDZ is develops into the top pair Dman we hope is is.

I always got the feeling when NY drafted Dubi & Cally it was anticipated that they would keep the better of the two if something came up trade wise down the road, which is shaping up to be in the near future and IMO Kreiders development will decide if they go that route. As deep as we are prospect wise on the wing, someones got to go eventually.

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Old
10-23-2010, 11:11 AM
  #67
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Hahaha. So everyone is souring on Grachev, and now willing to give him up? He used to be "untouchable" like Stepan and Kreider are now, apparently, didn't he?!?!?

Getting Spezza would be great, but I don't see how it would work. Also, we're not getting him for our trash plus picks, so people need to stop with that now.

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Old
10-23-2010, 11:15 AM
  #68
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Cap makes this very difficult. We aren't trading Rozsival, I'm pretty certain. And Spezza is a coveted #1 center. He will be hard to get.

Maybe Frolov is a potential piece. Maybe Anisimov is (Hope not)

We could temporarily LTIR Drury to make the space, but that would put us in a Devils situation.

I'm fairly certain Dubinsky would be a piece.

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Old
10-23-2010, 11:20 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Cap makes this very difficult. We aren't trading Rozsival, I'm pretty certain. And Spezza is a coveted #1 center. He will be hard to get.

Maybe Frolov is a potential piece. Maybe Anisimov is (Hope not)

We could temporarily LTIR Drury to make the space, but that would put us in a Devils situation.

I'm fairly certain Dubinsky would be a piece.
Why would we trade frolov when we just signed him? Its not like he has been bad. Of course we would like him to produce more, but he hasnt been hurting us when he's on the ice. Sorry I'm just confused as to why he is even mentioned.

And the staff seems high on AA. I just dont see him being traded.

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10-23-2010, 11:23 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Why would we trade frolov when we just signed him? Its not like he has been bad. Of course we would like him to produce more, but he hasnt been hurting us when he's on the ice. Sorry I'm just confused as to why he is even mentioned.

And the staff seems high on AA. I just dont see him being traded.
He is mentioned because he is a cap hit that can be moved. Plus he is more replaceable than Rozsival.

His name likely hasnt even been brought up, but it could be.

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Old
10-23-2010, 11:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Spezza has a ridiculous contract. Hasn't performed to that contract. So lets bring him to New York. Priceless. Spezza is another dog with fleas.
dead on.

but do we say no if its a gomez type deal?

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Old
10-23-2010, 12:02 PM
  #72
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Yeah, no way Heatley gets traded for Michalek and Cheechoo.

The Stars are going to make the playoffs, Richards will finish the season with the Stars in the Playoffs. When you see the rumored price for Richards at the deadline, you won't want to be a part of the bidding (assuming they faulter and he's available.)

Ottawa as a fanbase has been blaming Spezza for 2 seasons. The coach is frustrated and the is a negative air surrounding him. He will not cost a package of Dubi, Anisimov, Stepan, 1st +. He is going to net a return for a couple of roster guys to help the team now, Ottawa likes balance in the lines and thinks depth trumps 1 elite line.

I'm all for getting Spezza despite the negativity. Obviously for a reasonable price, but this is our 1st line center. This scenerio sounds just like Thornton leaving Boston. His value was down because of poor playoff performances, the fanbase was killing him, his stats were ok but not living up to his cap hit (back when the ceiling was at $39m). Boston moved him for balance by taking 3 decent players from the Sharks.

Where I would start is Dubinsky, Roszival and Grachev. I'd avoid the first rounder but I wouldn't break the deal over it, maybe they balance the deal with something else. Waive White and finally utilize the LTIR, we'll need to add a defenseman but that doesn't concern me with guys like Bieksa available.

When Drury comes back you put him on the left sides and I guess EC is out of the picture.
Good post, Mugyera - all of the above, including the Thornton comparison, makes total sense. Completely agreed.

Regarding Dubi - we know that Ottawa coveted him in the Heatley negotiations. If they still view him as a C instead of a LW, he fills the need to bring back a centerman with Spezza going the other way. He has almost a $2MM cap hit and will be getting a raise this offseason, so he makes sense from a money point of view as well.

Rozsie - Ottawa could use a veteran D. His cap hit makes the salaries work almost to the dollar (although of course he provides real dollar savings).

I continue to believe in Grachev (and I shudder to think what he could become if he gets a fresh start in a new organization), but I've always tried to be realistic that we would include him in the right deal for a star player, even back when Evgeny was the shiny new toy. This deal certainly qualifies.

Of course, the proposed deal would leave the Rangers with a hole on D, but you can address that elsewhere later in the year. And even if you don't do it this year, I view the proposed transaction as a deal to position the Rangers for a 5-7 year window, so you still have a year or so to let Sauer, McD, Valentenko and even guys like McIlrath and Pashnin develop. Heck, we already saw an improvement simply by subbing Sauer in for Eminger.

Personally, I think the price is about right - and I'd do it for all the reasons you list. The funny thing is, I'm sure that Ottawa fans would say that your proposal isn't enough, due to the fallacious perspective we've seen for years that when you trade one of your stars (especially one who is priced accordingly), you're going to get back a similarly talented player PLUS additional assets. But I wonder if in reality Slats wouldn't be the one to balk at such a deal since he would be giving up a relatively cheap rising young forward, a top 2 (in our lineup anyway) defenseman, and a top prospect (even if he's in a slump) for a fully priced star with a cloud over his head...

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Old
10-23-2010, 12:07 PM
  #73
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We dont have the assets Ottawa is looking for.

They will be asking for one of:

Staal/Del Zotto
Dubinsky/Callahan/Anisimov
Prospect
Picks

No way we give up our core.

Im willing to give up

Dubinksy
Girardi/Rozy
Grachev
2nd

Spezza is a beast but at the price Ottawa wants the Rangers will be forced to balk.

Go after Richards as a FA. If that doesnt work, we have a guy named Stepan who could develop into a #1 C in the next couple of years.

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10-23-2010, 12:25 PM
  #74
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Let's look at this a different way.We know the Sens wanted Dubi in the Heatley trade so he's in the deal for Spezza.
Rosy needs to go to even out the salary's so he's in.
I'm sure a prospect needs to go so let's see--Grachev,McD,Stepan,Sauer or Kreider.The only 1 I would give up(and not easy)would be Grachev.
I wouldn't give up Arty or Cally like some have said.
Maybe the 1st pick comes into play because we have 2-2nd rounders next season.

Not sure why most people don't seem to think that we have the piece's to aquire Spezza.The way I see it and many other's your looking at,

Dubi(possible he won't re-sign with the Ranger's after this off-season)
Rosy
Grachev
Maybe Sauer(who could be replaced by McD or Vank)
And possible a 1st round pick.

Spezza will out produce both Dubi and Grachev this year alone.I also doubt Ott. will find a better package out there.Hurts losing Dubi and Grachev but we have to give to get.

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Old
10-23-2010, 12:35 PM
  #75
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What's the going return for a 27 year old center with a 7M cap hit who averages 30 goals, 50 assists? I'm not crazy about his declining stats the previous 2 seasons. Perhaps that was due to injury and a not so great Ottawa team. But he should have a number of good years left...certainly the 3 more he has on his current deal that brings him to age 30.

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