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Old
10-23-2010, 01:38 PM
  #76
z1co80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Chances are zero we get him, but he is what we need. I'd easily move one of Anisimov or Stepan for Spezza along with a lot of other parts.
Why ?

How do we know how good Anisimov or Stepan will get?

Would Spezza who although a great player make us a contender?

What is a lot of other parts?


Just as we are starting to build a core and have prospects who we have groomed to be NHL'ers (AND ONLY GETTING BETTER) people want to ****ing trade them? I just dont get some of you guys.

I admit having Spezza with Gaborik would be enticing but not at the expense he would cost and certainly not with his salary. Why dont we be patient for once in this franchise's excistence and actually try to do things right without jumping the gun.

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10-23-2010, 01:39 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
Let's look at this a different way.We know the Sens wanted Dubi in the Heatley trade so he's in the deal for Spezza.
Rosy needs to go to even out the salary's so he's in.
I'm sure a prospect needs to go so let's see--Grachev,McD,Stepan,Sauer or Kreider.The only 1 I would give up(and not easy)would be Grachev.
I wouldn't give up Arty or Cally like some have said.
Maybe the 1st pick comes into play because we have 2-2nd rounders next season.

Not sure why most people don't seem to think that we have the piece's to aquire Spezza.The way I see it and many other's your looking at,

Dubi(possible he won't re-sign with the Ranger's after this off-season)
Rosy
Grachev
Maybe Sauer(who could be replaced by McD or Vank)
And possible a 1st round pick.

Spezza will out produce both Dubi and Grachev this year alone.I also doubt Ott. will find a better package out there.Hurts losing Dubi and Grachev but we have to give to get.
100% agree. I second this comment, and your offer, but take out the first round pick and replace it with a second round pick from WSH.

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10-23-2010, 01:41 PM
  #78
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DO NOT TOUCH ANISIMOV, CALLAHAN or STEPAN

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10-23-2010, 01:42 PM
  #79
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I just don't see much of a good team being left if we trade for Spezza.

Sure, our first has the potential to be monstrous...but look what happened this season- Gaborik's out after getting tapped and now we're in a predicament where what should be an ideal second line is thrown into 1st line situations (albeit they looked good last game )


I don't know...At this point my ideal course of action would be to try and sign Richards if he becomes an UFA and if that fails wait for Anisimov or Stepan to mature.

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10-23-2010, 01:43 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Off limits: Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky, Staal, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Callahan, Girardi.

Anyone after that fine.

Giving up the core of a team and the team's future that has been building nicely, for another single high priced player is typical old Rangers BS philosophy that they have been migrating away from.

Not a trade I'd like to see, at all. Step in the wrong direction. And not financially feasible at this point in time with 7mil Drury, 6+mil Lundqvist, 5+mil Rozsival, 7+mil Gaborik on the roster.

Besides that, trade for Spezza and kiss Anisimov, Del Zotto, Dubinsky, and other RFAs goodbye.

TEAM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>high priced individuals acquired externally.

No no no. Stick to the plan. Continue BUILDING the team. This WILL be a VERY good team very soon. All it takes is PATIENCE and not deviating from the plan.
I think i love you

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10-23-2010, 01:44 PM
  #81
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Personally I wouldn't make any deals until after the season...unless the deals had us selling (i.e. Rozy)

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Old
10-23-2010, 01:44 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredden View Post
We dont have the assets Ottawa is looking for.

They will be asking for one of:

Staal/Del Zotto
Dubinsky/Callahan/Anisimov
Prospect
Picks

No way we give up our core.

Im willing to give up

Dubinksy
Girardi/Rozy
Grachev
2nd

Spezza is a beast but at the price Ottawa wants the Rangers will be forced to balk.

Go after Richards as a FA. If that doesnt work, we have a guy named Stepan who could develop into a #1 C in the next couple of years.

are u kidding me??

dubinsky, girardi, grachev and a 2nd for SPEZZA??????

PASS!!!!

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10-23-2010, 01:45 PM
  #83
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I don't really see why Roszival would be a stumbling block from our perspective. Maybe Ott wants no part of him, I can't speak to that. But I think it makes sense from our end.

Ok, I get the concept that doing the deal hurts us in one position while helping another. Just exposing a hole while covering another. But we are talking about fixing the 1st line center issue at the cost of 20 min a night on defense. No one is talking about a 1st pairing D, 40+ pts, shut down abilities, etc, everyone is concerned about 20 minutes a night. Who's going to replace that? That's a problem I'm willing to take on for the sake of adding a #1 center.

I'm fairly certain we have some guys in the system that can fill Roszival's minutes at some point, I'm certain we can acquire a defenseman who can take on those minutes now... maybe he comes back in the deal. But we don't know if we have a #1 center anywhere. We hope Anisimov and Stepan will be that, but that is just a hope whereas we can, with confidence, replace Roszival from within.

The strongest argument against is the one related to the next CBA. You just have to weigh that against the posibility of amnesty buyouts for Redden, knowing that Drury is off the books, and hoping that some of these kids like Kreider, McD, Valentenko etc will be playing on this team for rookie contracts.

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10-23-2010, 01:45 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Just ridiculous. Pretty much no one is off limits for Spezza.
you are overrating spezza.....people imo are certainly off limits in a trade for him...and you are crazy if you dont think so


off limits for spezza: kreider, stepan, anisimov, henrik, gabby, staal, mdz

and it really annoyed me when you say youd send stepan or ani the other way for him.....that is exactly why this team sucks now because we dumped guys in the past for a decent player

spezza is good dont get me wrong and would instantly make this team much better but he is not a GREAT player. Hes a Good first line center who is injury prone and is often questioned for the amount of effort he puts into his play.

I really want to stick to the plan...i like the way this team is building...no offense to the people who believe every year theres a possibility but the odds of the rangers contending this year are so slim....i would much rather let this team develop and fill the holes through FA

Guys like Stepan, Ani, Cally, Dubi, Staal, McD, VTank all seem to be developing nicely and are giving this team a nice look and finally an identity.....I can say for the first time in years i am genuinley happy with the direction the team and management is taking.

If we give up young guys, especially from our said "core" for someone like spezza i will be extremely upset


This is such typical HF stuff and NYR fans...they hear a name like spezza and are ready to sell the farm for it.....


Last edited by Puckface NYR*: 10-23-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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Old
10-23-2010, 01:48 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
are u kidding me??

dubinsky, girardi, grachev and a 2nd for SPEZZA??????

PASS!!!!
this

Quote:
No no no. Stick to the plan. Continue BUILDING the team. This WILL be a VERY good team very soon. All it takes is PATIENCE and not deviating from the plan.
Sanity on these boards is such a rare quality....thank you

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Old
10-23-2010, 01:48 PM
  #86
z1co80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
you are overrating spezza.....people imo are certainly off limits in a trade for him...


off limits for spezza: kreider, stepan, anisimov, henrik, gabby, staal,
and it really annoyed me when you say youd send stepan or ani the other way for him.....that is exactly why this team sucks now because we dumped guys in the past for a decent player

spezza is good dont get me wrong and would instantly make this team much better but he is not a GREAT player. Hes a Good first line center who is injury prone and is often questioned for the amount of effort he puts into his play.

Im not knocking him but theres no way in hell i give up certain guys for him

Id do something like

Rosy+McD+Cally+2nd Rd for Spezza

Maybe dubinsky but we'd need something extra in return.....either a first rounder or decent prospect for me to be happy

Add in Del Zotto to the list of untouchables because he gives us something we haven't had for years and is only getting better. Mind you if we had drafted Fowler ah it doesnt matter

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10-23-2010, 01:50 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Really? If Spezza is so great why isn't he leading a pretty talented team deep into the playoffs?

The guy is a fine stat padding center, playing with world class players in his career like Heatley and Alfredsson.

He isn't a guy that can or will carry a team to a Cup.

So why exactly is an ENTIRE TEAM of solid young, skilled, hard working players worth dismantling and adding a TON of salary in ONE player, worth it??

Its not.

Therefore, its not ridiculous. And there are guys off limits.

If there wasn't a salary cap, then yea, fine, but there is, and building a team is how things have to be done, not buying one.

There is no possible way to add Spezza and his salary and still ice a full team.
Neither has Ovechkin. Neither has Kopitar. Neither have the Sedins. Neither has Savard -- yet all the aforementioned are world class players who would make the Rangers infinitely better.

I'm curious: are we looking to win the Stanley Cup, or simply compete for the Stanley Cup? I say right now, with this roster, neither.


Spezza is no Messier. But you can only pray that any of our young core players develop into half of what Spezza is from an offensive standpoint.

And you make it sound as if Spezza is the lone dog on Ottawa. That franchise is riddled with notorious underachievers. Last season, they had no true No. 1 d-man, two abominations in goal and vanishing acts from guys like Kovalev.


You don't acquire Jason Spezza to automatically win a Cup. You do it to make the Rangers instantly formidable at every position. And I'm talking "oh no, look who's on the ice" formidable.

Besides, you put Henrik on any Ottawa team from 2004 to the present and they are reaching 100 points in the standings every year.

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Old
10-23-2010, 01:56 PM
  #88
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This team doesn't suck now because of bad trades, we haven't had a prospect for vet trade in years, since before the lockout. We suck now because of horrible drafting (Jessiman instead of Richards, Parisi, Getzlaf) and horrible UFAs (Drury, Gomez, Redden). People want to hoard draft picks and sign more UFAs instead of trade... where's the logic?

Look, I'm with the idea of building a core, keeping most of your prospects and rounding out the team with UFAs, but every contending team has made a big trade to get to that point. Just be open to the concept of building a team with a couple of trades to go along with a decent homegrown core and handful of UFAs on the team already. This is the one area people should trust Sather on, he wouldn't part with Staal and Callahan for Heatley, I doubt he moves Del Zotto, Kreider, Stepan or even Anisimov for Spezza. Sather has a knack for exploiting weaknesses and right now I think Murray is weak. And hey, if he's not and he asks for the moon, Sather walks away like he's been doing since the lockout.

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Old
10-23-2010, 01:56 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by rangersfan30 View Post
Add in Del Zotto to the list of untouchables because he gives us something we haven't had for years and is only getting better. Mind you if we had drafted Fowler ah it doesnt matter
Lol sorry i knew i was forgetting someone! but i changed my post as i read more opinions....

after second thoughts...the only way id trade cally or dubi for spezza would be in an extremely limited package

maybe something like dubi+3rd pick+kennedy or something like that

I know people really love spezza around here but im just not that high on him...last year he had 57 points and the year before 73 (in 82 games) with alfredsson and heatley on his wings

Just doesnt seem like the value should be over the top for him

and it really gets me upset when people even consider trading ani, stepan or kreider for him

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Old
10-23-2010, 01:57 PM
  #90
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this team wont be able to compete for squat while Chris Drury and to a lesser extent Michal Rozsival are still on the books. We're going to have to wait out those contracts and use that time to develop our kids.

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10-23-2010, 01:58 PM
  #91
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Dubinsky is currently my favorite Ranger, so admittedly, I'm biased...

but all our valuable young guys bring something different

AA- is a versatile, two way center that has great skill and potential
Dubinsky is a gritty, talented forward who has an edge to his game
Cally is a heart and soul type player that does everything right
Stepan is a naturally creative player with leadership and vision

Its so hard to say which one is most important, they all bring something we need, and as many people have said, these guys need to be added to, not subtracted from this roster. Especially since I feel comfortable saying we haven't seen the best from any of them yet.

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10-23-2010, 02:03 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffyNYR61 View Post
Now it needs not be said that Hockeybuzz is completely unreliable, but I think that one rumor he had today may actually have some support.

he wrote: "Just was contacted by a source "The NY Rangers are being very aggressive in terms of Spezza. There are some high level talks ongoing.""

while i would normally just shake my head, http://thefourthperiod.com, which is I think is a reliable, trustworthy source, says that Brian Murray is ready to pull the trigger on a deal.

Spezza is a first line center. When motivated, the guy is a monster. This kind of deal is the one I can see Sather making.


What do you think the chances are? Is he what we need?
Drury would have to be going the other way for this to work which would require us adding more for ottawa to take such a ****** contract.

Drury anisimov mcdonogh 1st 3rd.

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Old
10-23-2010, 02:06 PM
  #93
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
This is such typical HF stuff and NYR fans...they hear a name like spezza and are ready to sell the farm for it.....
This is such a misrepresentation of what he actually said. Sell the farm? He's saying he'd consider most guys on the team, implying that some are still untouchable. He said 'one of Stepan and Anisimov' not both. The proposals for Spezza are pretty conservative and they all protect the vast majority of our prospects. People are getting way too protective of our youth though, overrating the vast majority of the guys and basically overvaluing them simply because they're ours.

I'm generally a patient guy and am more than happy to rebuild slow and steady, and I read Jonathan as a similar type. But when an opportunity presents itself sometimes you have to seize it.

I guarentee that if and when Spezza is moved, it will be for far less than the formula of 2 promising young roster guys+1 coveted prospect+1st round pick. I've said it before: Thornton for Stuart, Sturm, Primeau; Heatley for Cheechoo and Michalek; Hossa for Armstrong, Esposito, (help me out guys with the other 3 paltry throw in players) and the 29th overall pick. That is the return on star players. Hossa probably got the most because his contract was coming off the books and he was having a good year. Heatley and Thornton had baggage. Where does Spezza fit?

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10-23-2010, 02:11 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
This is such a misrepresentation of what he actually said. Sell the farm? He's saying he'd consider most guys on the team, implying that some are still untouchable. He said 'one of Stepan and Anisimov' not both. The proposals for Spezza are pretty conservative and they all protect the vast majority of our prospects. People are getting way too protective of our youth though, overrating the vast majority of the guys and basically overvaluing them simply because they're ours.

I'm generally a patient guy and am more than happy to rebuild slow and steady, and I read Jonathan as a similar type. But when an opportunity presents itself sometimes you have to seize it.

I guarentee that if and when Spezza is moved, it will be for far less than the formula of 2 promising young roster guys+1 coveted prospect+1st round pick. I've said it before: Thornton for Stuart, Sturm, Primeau; Heatley for Cheechoo and Michalek; Hossa for Armstrong, Esposito, (help me out guys with the other 3 paltry throw in players) and the 29th overall pick. That is the return on star players. Hossa probably got the most because his contract was coming off the books and he was having a good year. Heatley and Thornton had baggage. Where does Spezza fit?
IMO spezza is not in the same skill level as Hossa, Heatley and certainly not Thornton.

The past two season he has been decent. He is also getting older and has had a few injuries.

The reason i would never trade anisimov or stepan for him is because i truly believe that both have the chance to become as good if not better than spezza and they are 6 and 7 years younger than him respectively.

I just dont feel it would be worth even trading those guys straight up for him. Spezza is not in the elite level he is above average.

Also although richards is older....richards>spezza and i would much rather pay richards the same salary as spezza and just sign him in FA at the cost of only money

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10-23-2010, 02:12 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Drury would have to be going the other way for this to work which would require us adding more for ottawa to take such a ****** contract.

Drury anisimov mcdonogh 1st 3rd.

Assuming Drury was going the other way, wouldn't this balance out the salaries assuming we waive White?

Also another thing to consider is that if we keep Anisimov, Stephan and Boyle and add Spezza, where will we play Drury?

I think I'd certainly be ok with Drury and Grachev as the starting point for a deal...what else would we needto include? If we could do it without giving up any of our core guys, wouldn't that move us forward even if we gave up a draft pick or midrange prospect?

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10-23-2010, 02:26 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by rangersfan30 View Post
Why ?

How do we know how good Anisimov or Stepan will get?

Would Spezza who although a great player make us a contender?

What is a lot of other parts?


Just as we are starting to build a core and have prospects who we have groomed to be NHL'ers (AND ONLY GETTING BETTER) people want to ****ing trade them? I just dont get some of you guys.

I admit having Spezza with Gaborik would be enticing but not at the expense he would cost and certainly not with his salary. Why dont we be patient for once in this franchise's excistence and actually try to do things right without jumping the gun.
What he said

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10-23-2010, 02:29 PM
  #97
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Spezza is an extremely talented player, but I'm not interested in paying what Ottawa would likely want for him.

Stepan and Anisimov have the potential to be a tremendous 1/2 punch for many years on this team. Both are skilled, have great hockey sense, and work their ***** off. I'll take my chances with those two over Spezza.

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10-23-2010, 02:51 PM
  #98
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Even though I highly doubt that Rangers are actually pursuing Spezza, I really don't think it would be a smart idea to try to trade him.

It is going to take an overpayment from the Rangers to land Spezza, with the stage that this organization is at, giving up the farm for Spezza would hurt this team in the long run.

Either wait for Anisimov and Stepan to develop properly, or, wait to sign Richards this off-season for nothing but cap space.

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10-23-2010, 02:57 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
DO NOT TOUCH ANISIMOV, CALLAHAN or STEPAN
Don't forget Kreider, McDonagh, and Valentenko!

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10-23-2010, 02:59 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Spezza is an extremely talented player, but I'm not interested in paying what Ottawa would likely want for him.

Stepan and Anisimov have the potential to be a tremendous 1/2 punch for many years on this team. Both are skilled, have great hockey sense, and work their ***** off. I'll take my chances with those two over Spezza.
Not to mention that Dubi is just starting to show signs of becoming that "monster" power forward we all hope he would.

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