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Who do we go after this off-season?

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Old
10-23-2010, 04:26 PM
  #51
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1) Resigning our kids: Dubi, Ani, Cally etc.

2) Resign Frolov to a fair price 4 mil 3-4 years if he plays well this season

3) Richards at a FAIR PRICE.....anything over 6.5 mil for 4-5 years is a mistake

4) if we can dump rosy at the deadline (assuming were out of it) bring in a vet d-man to take his spot (preferably one with some snarl)

honestly i wouldnt mind standing pat and giving the kids another year to develop then look at whose available (and expendable) the 2013 offseason


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10-23-2010, 04:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Thordic View Post
Semin is going to get paid. And as talented as he isnt, he isn't the type of FA we should be going after.
i want Backes. he has something the rangers dont have much of that is size grit and skill. id love to see dubinsky backes and callahan line and then move anisimov with frolov if resigned and gaborik. I dont want Semin at all. he has disaster signing all over

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10-23-2010, 04:31 PM
  #53
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It is October 24th. WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSEASON?!?!

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10-23-2010, 05:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Thornton was not a free agent signing. Half a dozen games into Stepan's career, there is simply no concrete way to project his contributions to this team in the future. Anisimov looks like he has taken his game to an entirely different level. Saying we need Richards to act as a buffer for them, when they're already proving to be two of our best players, makes little sense to me.
Trust me, the next major mistake we will so here in NY is "wait and see". We have done a ton of major mistakes, that could be the next one.

If we have to wait and see, its because we can't judge what we have. We don't have that luxury. Anisimov isn't nearly, even remotely, good enough. Stepan have a lot in him, but he is a kid who needs to be given a good environment not just to break into the league, but to take it to the next level, and the next level after that.

Stepan and Anisimov, and the guys in the farm; Kreider, MZA and Grachev; next to Gaborik alone -- thats just not enough offensively. Compliment that crew with one guy who really can get it done, especially in terms of playmaking -- and we might actually really really be on to something. Don't do that -- and we could fall flat.

Thats just my humble opinion, and I could be wrong of course. But I think we should be searching like nuts for a forward who is top notch offensively, and I would be willing to sacrifize a lot of assets for it. Why? Because I really think we have potential on this roster. But potential never develops on its own, unless they are way and beyond top notch. Toews& Kane. Malkin and Crosby. AO and Bäckström. Not Stepan and Anisimov...

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10-23-2010, 05:24 PM
  #57
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If Anisimov/Stepan show significant signs of a first-line center, than Backes. If we think they'll top out as second-liners, than Richards.

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10-23-2010, 05:29 PM
  #58
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And to answer your absurdity, I'll give a name not many people are talking about: Joni Pitkanen. Love this guy. He's a FANTASTIC player, a top defenseman in this league in my opinion. His vision is impeccable, his hockey smarts are up there with the best, and he gives us that PMD we need on our first pair, WITHOUT being a wreck in his own zone. I say if he gets to UFA, the Rangers need get an offer to him, PRONTO. He gives us a player we haven't had since Leetch. And, yeah, I know we have MDZ, but we need more than just ONE PMD. We have Roszival on our first powerplay unit. That's a problem right there. And to go with all of this, Joni is at the tender age of 26. He has many 50-60 point seasons ahead of him.

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10-23-2010, 05:46 PM
  #59
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Why do anything. I would rather see the Rangers right the ship and wait a few years developing prospects, drafting wise and letting guys like DelZotto, Staal, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan etc grow.

They have their 3 best players locked up for at least 4 more years in Gabby, Lundqvist, and Staal. So they don't need to rush things and try and win everything this year.

Over the next 2 years White, Frolov, Avery, Rosie, Eminger, Biron, Prospal, Christiansen, and most importantly Drury's contracts will be off the books. None of these players are true impact players and a couple of them are being paid like stars.

Over the next couple years your young guys like Stepan, Anisimov, DelZotto, Staal etc will all become better players and start filling or continue to fill top 6 forward and top 4 defensive roles. Guys like Gratchev and Kreider or even Werek may be ready and suprise. Super stars like Lundqvist ad Gabby will still be on the team.

This is the time I believe the Rangers should explore the need to fill a hole with a top free agent as at this time other then goaltending, most the team is a large hole that needs to be filled to be a true contender.

Not bashing the team, I am rather impressed with the pieces this team may possess 2 years from now to mesh with Gabby and Lunqvist. Insead of trying to fix a broken down ship, save the quality pieces, wait and get rid of the dead weight, then buy the shiney prop for the solidly reconstructed ship.

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10-23-2010, 05:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StepanToGaborik View Post
He has many 50-60 point seasons ahead of him.
You can't predict that and its asinine to do so. those are incredible seasons for d-men to have

And for all you who say wait and see wait and see dont go after FA

I understand your logic as i am a wait and see guy as well. BUT the holes that remain NEED to be filled through FA.....this team had not and likely will not get that elite #1 center like crosby or a player like ovi, malking etc in the draft

Some of our big guns HAVE to come from FA....its just how it is. We seem to be building a good, steady, home grown core....however there will be holes, whether its a #1 Center or a D-man to pair with staal on the top unit, etc...

These needs will be filled through FA, as they should be. ADDING through FA to your already strong core is how you build winners...

Its adding players like redden, drury, gomez, kotalik etc...on overpaid contracts that messes this strategy up.

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10-23-2010, 05:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Not bashing the team, I am rather impressed with the pieces this team may possess 2 years from now to mesh with Gabby and Lunqvist. Insead of trying to fix a broken down ship, save the quality pieces, wait and get rid of the dead weight, then buy the shiney prop for the solidly reconstructed ship.
Couldn't Agree More.

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10-23-2010, 05:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
You can't predict that and its asinine to do so. those are incredible seasons for d-men to have

And for all you who say wait and see wait and see dont go after FA

I understand your logic as i am a wait and see guy as well. BUT the holes that remain NEED to be filled through FA.....this team had not and likely will not get that elite #1 center like crosby or a player like ovi, malking etc in the draft

Some of our big guns HAVE to come from FA....its just how it is. We seem to be building a good, steady, home grown core....however there will be holes, whether its a #1 Center or a D-man to pair with staal on the top unit, etc...

These needs will be filled through FA, as they should be. ADDING through FA to your already strong core is how you build winners...

Its adding players like redden, drury, gomez, kotalik etc...on overpaid contracts that messes this strategy up.
Pitkanen isn't a Drury, Gomez, and ESPECIALLY not a Redden. He's not playing with Chara, therefore making him look better. The only players I want in UFA this year are Pitkanen, Semin, Backes, and MAYBE Richards, depending on the price. There is no point in signing Richards right now, because by the time this team is ready to compete, he'll be in his twilight years. Just wait for Stepan and Arty to grow into the 60+ point centers they are, and we'll be strong down the middle for years to come.

As for the 50-60 point seasons, he'll be getting plenty of those. The guy is one of the premier offensive defenseman in the league.

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10-23-2010, 06:37 PM
  #63
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Trust me, the next major mistake we will so here in NY is "wait and see". We have done a ton of major mistakes, that could be the next one.

If we have to wait and see, its because we can't judge what we have. We don't have that luxury. Anisimov isn't nearly, even remotely, good enough. Stepan have a lot in him, but he is a kid who needs to be given a good environment not just to break into the league, but to take it to the next level, and the next level after that.

Stepan and Anisimov, and the guys in the farm; Kreider, MZA and Grachev; next to Gaborik alone -- thats just not enough offensively. Compliment that crew with one guy who really can get it done, especially in terms of playmaking -- and we might actually really really be on to something. Don't do that -- and we could fall flat.

Thats just my humble opinion, and I could be wrong of course. But I think we should be searching like nuts for a forward who is top notch offensively, and I would be willing to sacrifize a lot of assets for it. Why? Because I really think we have potential on this roster. But potential never develops on its own, unless they are way and beyond top notch. Toews& Kane. Malkin and Crosby. AO and Bäckström. Not Stepan and Anisimov...
Anisimov has one NHL season under his belt. Saying he "isn't nearly, even remotely, good enough" is just a bunch of conjecture. We've hardly given the kids a chance to prove themselves, and you've already quit on them.

I'm just going to agree to disagree on this.

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10-23-2010, 07:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Anisimov has one NHL season under his belt. Saying he "isn't nearly, even remotely, good enough" is just a bunch of conjecture. We've hardly given the kids a chance to prove themselves, and you've already quit on them.

I'm just going to agree to disagree on this.

i'll second that....in all respects.

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10-24-2010, 04:39 AM
  #65
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I understand that Gaborik and Hank aren't getting any younger, but they're also not even 30 years old yet. Hank has another 7+ years in him, and Gaborik's health is a gamble regardless of what the rest of the team looks like. I don't want to rush the process, just because the age of our two best players is higher each year.
I understand your POV. I'm not a fan of rushing things either, but I think that's the reality the Rangers have put themselves in.

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I really dread a scenario where we end up with Richards for 7 years, and $55MM, and then we watch our young core go elsewhere when we can't trade a 35 year old Richards who's game is starting to decline.
The scenario I'm afraid of is 3-4 years from now, where the team still hasn't gotten over the playoff bubble hump, some of our highly touted prospects don't develop as planned, and we're stuck right back where we began.

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We do have a solid core, and a quality group of prospects as well, but that doesn't mean we should gamble on the unproven ones coming through. Trading Dubinsky when we have Kreider on the farm is not a good idea. Trading Dubinsky when Kreider has proven he can play in the NHL and contribute? That's something I can get on board with.
I agree, it would be a lot easier to make such a decision if Kreider was more of a proven commodity, because I do think it all comes down to Dubinsky. Stepan isn't getting traded, and I don't think Anisimov is either, nor do I want to see either traded. Dubinsky and McDonagh are the two pieces that make the most sense to deal. But we don't have that luxury. The only playmaking centers of Richards' ilk, or better, that are schedule to be free agents in 2012, 2013, or 2014 are guys who realistically speaking, are not likely to hit the free agent market (Crosby, Getzlaf, Malkin). It's just so rare that guys this good at this position become free agents, and they don't exactly get traded very often, either.

Either way, it should make for an interesting off-season. I do believe that the Rangers will be a serious contender for Richards, one way or another.

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10-24-2010, 06:27 AM
  #66
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1. Don't resign White, Prospal or Frolov.

2. Go after Tim Connolly, Richards will be looking for a long huge deal. Connolly might be more in our range and might be inclined to sign a short term deal. HE can help out while Stepan and AA get ready for more prime time minutes. He's making 4.5 but I can't see him getting that again. He's 29 years old, I say 3 years @ 3 PER or 2 @ 3.5 PER

3. Simon Gagne - Might go cheaply. I'd give him a 1 year 2.5 deal to see if he can get his feet back under him again.

4. Steve Sullivan for RW, a cheap 1 year deal again. 1 Year 3.5 say.

5. Mark Stuart - Sign him up to help out the defense. Again something short term, 2-3 years.

I don't see any reason to hand out long term deals to Semin, Richards or Jovo.

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10-24-2010, 06:43 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
1. Don't resign White, Prospal or Frolov
I'm with you here.

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2. Go after Tim Connolly, Richards will be looking for a long huge deal. Connolly might be more in our range and might be inclined to sign a short term deal. HE can help out while Stepan and AA get ready for more prime time minutes. He's making 4.5 but I can't see him getting that again. He's 29 years old, I say 3 years @ 3 PER or 2 @ 3.5 PER
The whole point of trading for Richards is that he's on a different level from Connolly. We don't need a Connolly. He's not much of an upgrade.


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3. Simon Gagne - Might go cheaply. I'd give him a 1 year 2.5 deal to see if he can get his feet back under him again.
Can't see a scenario where he doesn't command a much better deal, even with his injury history.

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4. Steve Sullivan for RW, a cheap 1 year deal again. 1 Year 3.5 say.
I'm back with you here. One of my favorite players ever. He fills a need at 2nd RW, allows Callahan to move to the role he's best suited (3rd RW) and if/when Sully gets hurt, Callahan can move up and fill in adequately. When healthy, Sully is a monster talent and a VERY heady player. Or you keep him at LW depending on what happens with Frolov and Dubinsky.

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5. Mark Stuart - Sign him up to help out the defense. Again something short term, 2-3 years.
No need. Valentenko and/or McDonagh will be here next season.

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I don't see any reason to hand out long term deals to Semin, Richards or Jovo.
Semin? Enticing but no. Jovo? Definitely not. Richards, yes.


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10-24-2010, 12:57 PM
  #68
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how is this year a THROW AWAY? Come on now. You CANT be a Rangers fan if you AUTOMATICALLY think the season is a "throw away". If your not rooting FOR US, your AGAINST US.

Why dont you follow DETROIT or San Jose since you think anything but a PROBABLE Stanley Cup is THROW AWAY.
Calm down u misinterpret. rather than scream at the team for being bad this year I recognize they will prob be bad and am willing to throw all my support in the hopes of at least seeing development from Arti, MDZ, Staal, DUbs, etc.

If I wanted to root for a consistent cup contender and winner I'd root for Detroit but I don't. Very ignorant of you to attack me like that.

ALso this teams biggest problem has been bad big signings. Lundqvist was a big signing but not a BAD big signing/ I think we all know the difference. The question is what will Richards be. I'm split 50-50 on him I just don't know. Signing Backes and Pitkanen (example) for 4-5 years may be better than signing Richards for 7 or 8 especially if he goes sour in year 3 or 4 because then it's 4 years of hell like with Redden and Drury. I just don't know if the immediate reward outweighs the risk with him I really don't.

If he has a 90-100 pt season and is reasonable about a 7 mil per contract for 5 or 6 years I say get him. If he gets injured and has a 50 point season I say avoid like the plague

It's possible that our core and the bulk of our team is ready with the addition of Richards to Arti, Staal, Dubs, Girardi, Cally, Gabs, MDZ, Hank, Step, McD, Boyle Sauer, maybe MZA, Avery, Boogie, etc. It really is possible that next year that's enough to add Richards to and be a possible champion. I'm not discounting that. I won der though if it's possible to sign Riochards and keep Sauer, Dubs, Cally and Artie. I'd rather have them (Include Sauer dependent on this year of course). Sorta unrelated but I really do think we gotta trade Roszi this year for the sake of the off-season. That 5 mil will be a huge deal. It's not about this year I understand it will hurt our D big time but I think it's absolutely necassary for the future.


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10-24-2010, 01:08 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Anisimov has one NHL season under his belt. Saying he "isn't nearly, even remotely, good enough" is just a bunch of conjecture. We've hardly given the kids a chance to prove themselves, and you've already quit on them.

I'm just going to agree to disagree on this.
How is that even remotely quitting on them?

Would getting Chara be quitting on MDZ or Staal?

We can argue on who we should get. We can argue on when we should get someone. Like maybe we should be patient and wait two years until we can pull of a Joe T to SJ type of trade. We can argue on how we should get help, trade/UFA.

But I can tell you right now that our current group don't have enough fire power. Thats not quitting on Stepan or Anisimov, thats being realistic. I mean, if Stepan becomes the next Marc Savard and Anisimov becomes the next Krejci; we would still be on the thin side in terms of firepower.

Its not on the horizon for this team to put together a top notch PP, thats especially what bothers me. If we could do that, I think, within 2-3 years, we could be a contender in the East. But, in order to put together that top notch PP we must bring in someone with top notch ability.

Edit: And on Anisimov, to go all the way you need everything. Or even to just become like a top 6-8 team in the league. One of those things is top end offensive ability. Anisimov don't have that and never will have it. Stepan could be part of a elite trojka, but he won't alone get us there, or alone, next to just Gabby. Like, Anisimov won't become Mike Modano II. Thats what we need.

Maybe we could trade for Kovalchuk from NJ...


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10-24-2010, 01:16 PM
  #70
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I understand your POV. I'm not a fan of rushing things either, but I think that's the reality the Rangers have put themselves in.
I think 2012 is going to be the real turning point for this team. We're losing two big contracts that belong to two veterans. If they wash their hands of Drury and Rozsival, it truly signifies that this team is now in the hands of the kids. I'm willing to chance it until that point.


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The scenario I'm afraid of is 3-4 years from now, where the team still hasn't gotten over the playoff bubble hump, some of our highly touted prospects don't develop as planned, and we're stuck right back where we began.
Certainly possible, but again, it's something I'm willing to chance.


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I agree, it would be a lot easier to make such a decision if Kreider was more of a proven commodity, because I do think it all comes down to Dubinsky. Stepan isn't getting traded, and I don't think Anisimov is either, nor do I want to see either traded. Dubinsky and McDonagh are the two pieces that make the most sense to deal. But we don't have that luxury. The only playmaking centers of Richards' ilk, or better, that are schedule to be free agents in 2012, 2013, or 2014 are guys who realistically speaking, are not likely to hit the free agent market (Crosby, Getzlaf, Malkin). It's just so rare that guys this good at this position become free agents, and they don't exactly get traded very often, either.
I agree that McDonagh is likely a moveable piece, but I think the organization will flip Grachev before they trade Dubinsky. Especially if he can keep up the play he's shown thus far this season. You're right that it's rare that players of this ilk become free agents, but that's also the problem. Is it really a cost-effective solution? I'm not so sure it is.

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Either way, it should make for an interesting off-season. I do believe that the Rangers will be a serious contender for Richards, one way or another.
I think you're right, and honestly, if the price is right, it would be a very tough move to turn down.

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10-24-2010, 01:48 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think 2012 is going to be the real turning point for this team. We're losing two big contracts that belong to two veterans. If they wash their hands of Drury and Rozsival, it truly signifies that this team is now in the hands of the kids. I'm willing to chance it until that point.




Certainly possible, but again, it's something I'm willing to chance.




I agree that McDonagh is likely a moveable piece, but I think the organization will flip Grachev before they trade Dubinsky. Especially if he can keep up the play he's shown thus far this season. You're right that it's rare that players of this ilk become free agents, but that's also the problem. Is it really a cost-effective solution? I'm not so sure it is.



I think you're right, and honestly, if the price is right, it would be a very tough move to turn down.
I'm not sure that McDonagh is such a movable piece. And, while many Ranger fans appear to have no problem putting Dubinsky in trade proposals,(Eklund as well), I have yet to see any evidence that the Rangers would move him. Judging by the ice time he's getting, he and Callahan are the two most important forwards on the team.

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10-24-2010, 05:44 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I agree that McDonagh is likely a moveable piece, but I think the organization will flip Grachev before they trade Dubinsky. Especially if he can keep up the play he's shown thus far this season. You're right that it's rare that players of this ilk become free agents, but that's also the problem. Is it really a cost-effective solution? I'm not so sure it is.
I think they'd certainly be more willing to part with Grachev before Dubinsky, but I don't think he has nearly the value Dubinsky does. He might be a player that's included in a deal of this type, but he won't be a centerpiece.

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I'm not sure that McDonagh is such a movable piece. And, while many Ranger fans appear to have no problem putting Dubinsky in trade proposals,(Eklund as well), I have yet to see any evidence that the Rangers would move him. Judging by the ice time he's getting, he and Callahan are the two most important forwards on the team.
Well, at this point, who else are you going to play there? Not like the team has much to choose from. But with Kreider, as well as Werek and MZA in the system, and what I would caregorize as a big hole at center, despite the presence of Stepan and Anisimov, Dubi just makes the most sense. Same with McDonagh. Staal, MDZ, Valentenko should be our top three LD for years to come. If you move McD to the right side, and can make it work, sure, but I think he's a player a team like Dallas or Ottawa would covet if they trade a Richards or a Spezza. Both need blueline help.

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10-24-2010, 08:35 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Well, at this point, who else are you going to play there? Not like the team has much to choose from. But with Kreider, as well as Werek and MZA in the system, and what I would caregorize as a big hole at center, despite the presence of Stepan and Anisimov, Dubi just makes the most sense. Same with McDonagh. Staal, MDZ, Valentenko should be our top three LD for years to come. If you move McD to the right side, and can make it work, sure, but I think he's a player a team like Dallas or Ottawa would covet if they trade a Richards or a Spezza. Both need blueline help.
When any of the prospects you mention show they can play at the level Dubinsky is playing at right now, you may have a point about moving Dubinsky making sense. And, why should be Valentenko be ranked over McDonagh? Nothing I saw in pre-season suggested that.

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10-25-2010, 04:14 PM
  #74
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To the proponents of Richards getting signed - I ran it through Capgeek for next year just for fun:

Here is what surfaced:
We have 6 key, young players on team today that will need new contracts for next season. In no particular order:
  • Dubinsky
  • Callahan
  • Anisimov
  • Boyle
  • MDZ
  • Sauer

PRESUMTIONS
The above 6 players were all consecutively resigned.
I presumed Eminger, White, Prospal, Gilroy and Feds are all no longer Rangers.
I have a hard time seeing us come to terms with Frolov for next year. Either he explodes and asks too much or his production tails and we do not want him. But this could however change throughout the course of a year...
I added 4 rookies on the team. Kreider, Grachev, McD and Valentenko. This will not happen. We will have 1-3 vets filling some of those spots. Probably for more money.
I traded Rozie + Christ for picks at the deadline. 2nd + 7th rounder.
We then sign Richards as a UFA in the offseason.
We also sign another UFA (or Souray on re-entry) Veteran Defender for slightly under 3 million.
I presumed that the cap goes up to 61 million. But this is certainly not a given. It may not go up at all...
This is what then remained:

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($1.850m) / Brad Richards ($7.800m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($3.000m) / Artem Amisimov ($1.900m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.800m)
Evgeny Grachev ($0.816m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m)
Sean Avery ($1.937m) / Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Vet UFA D (or Sheldon Souray??) ($2.700m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / Mike Sauer ($0.800m)
Pavel Valentenko ($0.800m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $61,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,691,667; BONUSES: $800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,108,333

There is no way we can work this UFA "signing" of Brad Richards this summer with Drury, Lundquist and Gaborik all still on the payrole and also resigning our youngsters with reasonable raises. NO WAY. Give it up. Unless we want to dismantle the core on which we presumabely are building on...blah blah blah


Last edited by BBKers: 10-25-2010 at 04:23 PM.
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10-25-2010, 04:45 PM
  #75
The Dark Passenger
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I think a lot of you forget that Redden comes back on the books during the off-season. While it would be nice to sign Semin or Richards for $7+ M, I don't think its entirely within the realm of possibility.

That, plus Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov are due for raises. I'd say stick with our kids and not blow a bunch of money on FA.

But I agree. It's October. Why are we talking about next off-season?

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