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Pittsburgh: The Best defensive in the game !

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Old
10-24-2010, 08:08 AM
  #76
bigd
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The defensive pair of Strait and Bortuzzo is looking pretty strong right now in WBS. I don't think either one will have a problem stepping in as a bottom pairing D in Pittsburgh this season if they are needed. They are playing as the top shut down D pairing in WBS and the team is off to a great start. Both Goalies are really playing well also.

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10-24-2010, 09:37 AM
  #77
Gustavo Fring
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When healthy:

Hawks
Preds
Pens
Kings

The Pens improved their team more than any team in the NHL this off season when they got Martin and Michalek.

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10-24-2010, 12:41 PM
  #78
Jacob
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I think having a legitimate number 1 defenseman is overrated. We had one for years in Gonchar, and I'd take this defense without one than any of our defenses with one.
I'd say there are only like, 10 legit #1 d-men in the NHL anyway. It's debatable, but I don't personally count Gonchar among them. Not quite good enough in his own end... and because he generally needs to be paired with a safe stay-at-home guy, I consider him a really good #2 instead.

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10-24-2010, 04:00 PM
  #79
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I'd say there are only like, 10 legit #1 d-men in the NHL anyway. It's debatable, but I don't personally count Gonchar among them. Not quite good enough in his own end... and because he generally needs to be paired with a safe stay-at-home guy, I consider him a really good #2 instead.
I would agree that Sarge wasn't a number 1, but a vast majority would say he is.

I just think people get so hung up on the fact that we don't have a Chris Pronger, but neglect the fact that even though we don't have a Pronger, we have 5 defenseman who could play just as many mins as he can. They just can't combine the points and the defensive ability into one package to the extent Pronger can.

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Old
11-28-2010, 08:01 AM
  #80
fortier
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so......a month later friends.....


You have the best defensive in the league. Do you believe me now ???

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11-28-2010, 08:05 AM
  #81
AK
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so......a month later friends.....


You have the best defensive in the league. Do you believe me now ???
Again, let's see how they hold up over a full season, okay? They're playing amazingly right now, but injuries and the like can make things unravel pretty quickly.

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11-28-2010, 08:45 AM
  #82
Krnage
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flyers d-fense are better than pens

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Old
11-28-2010, 09:02 AM
  #83
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flyers d better than the Pens:


hahahaha

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Old
11-28-2010, 10:27 AM
  #84
Lionel Hutz
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This guy is awesome!

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Old
11-28-2010, 10:54 AM
  #85
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It's gettin' there

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11-28-2010, 04:17 PM
  #86
Chazz
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i feel comfortable with our D overall, i smell another deep cup run this season

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11-28-2010, 04:24 PM
  #87
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I've said it before, but I really like the depth of our defense from 1 to 5. And with the way Engelland has played, I'm OK with him as #6.

My only concern is not having that true #1, in the same way guys like Doughty, Keith, Chara, Pronger, Lidstrom are. But with Letang's continued improvement, while I don't think he's there yet, my concern is lessening by the game.

But overall, I'd put our top 5 against any team in the league.

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11-28-2010, 04:42 PM
  #88
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I've said it before, but I really like the depth of our defense from 1 to 5. And with the way Engelland has played, I'm OK with him as #6.

My only concern is not having that true #1, in the same way guys like Doughty, Keith, Chara, Pronger, Lidstrom are. But with Letang's continued improvement, while I don't think he's there yet, my concern is lessening by the game.

But overall, I'd put our top 5 against any team in the league.
I don't understand this "true #1" obsession on HF. Martin, Michalek, and Letang are all top 30 in the NHL and Orpik is close too. That is to say you can imagine an NHL where any of 4 guys that play for us is the best defenceman on a team.

To me this makes a team stronger than having one guy carry the load in ES defencive, ES offensive, SH, and PP situations. Diversification reduces the risk of a single injury ruining a season. We have 4 or 5 guys that are situationally #1 D. E.g. Michalek and Orpik are true #1 PK defenders. Why does it matter they're not elite on the PP when we can put out Gogo, Letang or Martin instead?

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Old
11-28-2010, 04:51 PM
  #89
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
I don't understand this "true #1" obsession on HF. Martin, Michalek, and Letang are all top 30 in the NHL and Orpik is close too. That is to say you can imagine an NHL where any of 4 guys that play for us is the best defenceman on a team.

To me this makes a team stronger than having one guy carry the load in ES defencive, ES offensive, SH, and PP situations. Diversification reduces the risk of a single injury ruining a season. We have 4 or 5 guys that are situationally #1 D. E.g. Michalek and Orpik are true #1 PK defenders. Why does it matter they're not elite on the PP when we can put out Gogo, Letang or Martin instead?
Not really an obsession, but like I said, a minor concern.

Look back at the teams who've won a Stanley Cup. I think Carolina is the only team that's won it in recent memory who did so without a clear cut "number one" defenseman.

But like I said, the more Letang improves, the less that minor concern is of mine, because he's slowly becoming that guy. And our depth overall makes me less worried about that, since as you say, our top four has enough "group" ability to cover the main areas of the game a true number one usually would.

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11-28-2010, 05:01 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Not really an obsession, but like I said, a minor concern.

Look back at the teams who've won a Stanley Cup. I think Carolina is the only team that's won it in recent memory who did so without a clear cut "number one" defenseman.

But like I said, the more Letang improves, the less that minor concern is of mine, because he's slowly becoming that guy. And our depth overall makes me less worried about that, since as you say, our top four has enough "group" ability to cover the main areas of the game a true number one usually would.
I didn't me to call you out in particular for the true #1 thing. Your quote was actually pretty benign compared to some of the stuff on HF (particularly the main boards).

I think people confuse the correlation of elite position players winning (or not) with needing elite players (or not). In the converse situation consider elite goalies. The Chicago Philly final has people declaring the end of the elite goalie era. The year after we one everyone proclaimed strength down the middle as the only way to win. Great teams win. Great teams will have elite players in some positions and mediocre players in another area. No team has elite players in all positions.

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Pens are a top 10 (probably 10th or 9th) in the NHL for D, definatly not tops in the league unless we had a true elite dman on the roster then it would be top 3 for sure. Weber on this team would be pretty good.


Martin-Weber
Orpik-Michalek
Gogo-Lovejoy

That defense can shut anyone out easily. If any goalie struggles with that D, they are not NHL material!

Fortier: what is amazing is that you apparently enjoy the new Penguins after watching the early 90s Penguins.

Byfuglien would have been my top summer target on defense or offense (check the playoffs). really missed him on the Olympic team too.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:19 AM
  #92
Tender Rip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
I don't understand this "true #1" obsession on HF. Martin, Michalek, and Letang are all top 30 in the NHL and Orpik is close too. That is to say you can imagine an NHL where any of 4 guys that play for us is the best defenceman on a team.
I'm very happy with our defense. Its hard not to be, and with what was available in the off-season, it was difficult to conceive how Shero could have done better. But we will likely get to re-visit the topic once this group of players have been to the playoffs together.

We have a really strong D group, that goes without saying, but playoff hockey is different, and we don't have anyone who has been successful playing 'leading man' minutes there.
We can hope that Martin will have more success with us than he did as a Devil. We can hope that Letang's improvement also holds when games get tighter and more physical, and we can ponder whether our PK will be as successful when everyone place a higher premium on being physical in front of our goalie.... but we simply cannot know. As for the PP... less so.

That's why teams with guys like Lidström, Pronger, Keith/Seabrook etc. have an edge on us in most people's opinions. Because you KNOW that those guys will be very good in all situations against opponents top players for close to 30 minutes per game.
We might have that with two pairings playing almost 25 minutes (Brooks a bit less and Gogo more than third pairing minutes due to the PP), but again.... there's no guarantee until we see it.

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Old
11-29-2010, 08:55 AM
  #93
Mister Ed
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Top 4 is excellent and we're stacked with options for the bottom-pairing now and into the future. Lovejoy, Engelland, Despres, Goligoski, Bortuzzo, and Strait - that is a lot of quality competition. There is really no reason some of our surplus can't be flipped for a young winger.

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Old
11-29-2010, 09:04 AM
  #94
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Letang is gaining a lot of credibility for putting up points, when his pair with Orpik might be the weakest defensively on the team. In the world of statistics and clueless NHL writers, points make you a good defensemen, so props to Letang for breaking through the ceiling.

Martin and Michalek are lights out. Certainly a top 5 pair in the league. Volchenkov and Phillips-like IMO. When it comes time to shut down the Grape Ape for 4 games, those two guys are going to be essential. I just hope they get the call, rather than the defensively inept Letang-Orpik pair.

Goligoski has done as expected. He'd be a top 4 on most teams in the league, maybe even a top 2 because of his offensive potential. But he serves his role here and the mistakes are going down. Getting Michalek back took some pressure off his shoulders. #5 is a better fit for him on this team right now. I still think he has top 4 potential, but he won't find the opportunity on this team. Engelland has been a pleasant surprise. I think hes learning a great deal from our top 4..

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Old
11-29-2010, 09:58 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MrPenalty View Post
Letang is gaining a lot of credibility for putting up points, when his pair with Orpik might be the weakest defensively on the team. In the world of statistics and clueless NHL writers, points make you a good defensemen, so props to Letang for breaking through the ceiling.

Martin and Michalek are lights out. Certainly a top 5 pair in the league. Volchenkov and Phillips-like IMO. When it comes time to shut down the Grape Ape for 4 games, those two guys are going to be essential. I just hope they get the call, rather than the defensively inept Letang-Orpik pair.

Goligoski has done as expected. He'd be a top 4 on most teams in the league, maybe even a top 2 because of his offensive potential. But he serves his role here and the mistakes are going down. Getting Michalek back took some pressure off his shoulders. #5 is a better fit for him on this team right now. I still think he has top 4 potential, but he won't find the opportunity on this team. Engelland has been a pleasant surprise. I think hes learning a great deal from our top 4..
I don't think they have been the weakest pair at all. They have actually been getting the assignments over Martin and Michalek, which speaks volumes IMO.

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Old
11-30-2010, 03:38 PM
  #96
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The emergence of Tanger certainly puts our core up there when talking about the leagues best, at least our top 2 pair, but we have to prove that over the course of a year. Our depth is still a question mark for this year. Gogo is great offensively but still needs to improve defensively. Engelland has been solid but we still need to limit his ice time. We may have the best puck moving D corps in the league and our PK is doing very well. Z is coming on after a slow start and being injured. I hope we continue to play this way for a full season. I think our D needs to prove itself in the playoffs to be considered the leagues best.

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