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Phillies 2010 Postseason: Red October IV, R2C2: Return of the Jedi

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Old
10-24-2010, 01:43 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Howard's called 3rd strike wasn't really border line. Doesn't help Howard cause that he's a pretty free swinger.



Oswalt wasn't getting that pitch for a strike.




Phillies and Rays was one of the worst if not the worst World Series ever for ratings.

Is gkj a /sp/artan?

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10-24-2010, 03:10 PM
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The Phillies won't even be close to .500 next year. They won the most games in all of baseball without playing with a full lineup for the entire season. People need to stop acting like losing a short playoff series is the end of the world.

They don't need any wholesale changes. They won 97 games.

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10-24-2010, 03:21 PM
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Somebody give Scarfo some Xanax!

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10-24-2010, 03:29 PM
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Somebody give Scarfo some Xanax!
Yeah, I think I owe everyone an apology.

I haven't slept in days. I think I'm losing it.

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10-24-2010, 04:07 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Howard's called 3rd strike wasn't really border line. Doesn't help Howard cause that he's a pretty free swinger.
That was the definition of a borderline pitch, and WAY too close to take with two strikes in that situation.

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10-24-2010, 04:08 PM
  #81
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The Phillies won't even be close to .500 next year. They won the most games in all of baseball without playing with a full lineup for the entire season. People need to stop acting like losing a short playoff series is the end of the world.

They don't need any wholesale changes. They won 97 games.
I just wish we could keep Werth and trade Ibanez for peanuts... and put Brown in LF.

Either way, this team will threaten 100 wins again next year.

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10-24-2010, 04:16 PM
  #82
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As was said, everything being equal. Our bullpen was pretty damn good this postseason and starting pitching. The breaker was howard. Almost everyone else got an rbi at one time or another and he had the game at his bat multiple times and didn't do one thing. Im not saying the other hitters didn't leave runners on base, but at least one time or another hit an rbi, or werth with that solo shot in the 9th in San Fran. I always said since the reds series, we can't win like this if howard isn't hitting and sure enough i was right. A team can't hit, you can't win.

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10-24-2010, 04:28 PM
  #83
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This was frustratig season all the way through. They had problems getting big hits and doing the little things in baseball during the regular season. I dont think Halladay will have a better season next year, but they have Oswalt for a full season. I also think that Cole Hamels will be candidate for the Cy Young. They need to upgrade their bullpen and hopefully Brown works out. They need to start getting younger.

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10-24-2010, 04:32 PM
  #84
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This was frustratig season all the way through. They had problems getting big hits and doing the little things in baseball during the regular season. I dont think Halladay will have a better season next year, but they have Oswalt for a full season. I also think that Cole Hamels will be candidate for the Cy Young. They need to upgrade their bullpen and hopefully Brown works out. They need to start getting younger.
In that vein, I would absolutely open a few of the bullpen spots for some of these kids they have in the minors. Try to bring Contreras back and let him be the 7th inning guy, but give Mathieson, Bastardo, and Schwimmer a chance to earn jobs.

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10-24-2010, 04:46 PM
  #85
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Just wanted to chime in; the Phils sures did get their $125 million dollars worth. **** yeah!

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10-24-2010, 04:48 PM
  #86
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In that vein, I would absolutely open a few of the bullpen spots for some of these kids they have in the minors. Try to bring Contreras back and let him be the 7th inning guy, but give Mathieson, Bastardo, and Schwimmer a chance to earn jobs.
I want Contreras back, but I want to see if Bastardo can start. i dont think i can take another 25-30 starts out of Kendrick.

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10-24-2010, 04:57 PM
  #87
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In that vein, I would absolutely open a few of the bullpen spots for some of these kids they have in the minors. Try to bring Contreras back and let him be the 7th inning guy, but give Mathieson, Bastardo, and Schwimmer a chance to earn jobs.
They need to get an above average situational lefty... if for no other reason to keep him away from another team that will use him against us.

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I want Contreras back, but I want to see if Bastardo can start. i dont think i can take another 25-30 starts out of Kendrick.
You cannot be a starter in MLB if all you can throw is a fastball... hell, he isn't even a really effective lefty reliever right now.

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10-24-2010, 05:02 PM
  #88
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You cannot be a starter in MLB if all you can throw is a fastball... hell, he isn't even a really effective lefty reliever right now.
I would rather have him or Worley over Kendrick. It seems that his breaking ball has made progress since when he first broke into the league as a starter. You brought up another point about an effective lefty out of the bullpen.

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10-24-2010, 05:05 PM
  #89
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I would rather have him or Worley over Kendrick. It seems that his breaking ball has made progress since when he first broke into the league as a starter. You brought up another point about an effective lefty out of the bullpen.
He has a potential future there, but he's not there yet (lefty reliever). I would like to see them maybe carve out a spot for him there, and bring in a vet to be the primary guy (I have no idea who is available).

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10-24-2010, 05:13 PM
  #90
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I just wish we could keep Werth and trade Ibanez for peanuts... and put Brown in LF.

Either way, this team will threaten 100 wins again next year.
Werth is gone. With $143 million already committed to the 2011 payroll, there's almost no way they could add another $12-15 million to re-sign him. They probably could have made a deal work if they hadn't handed out a bunch of bad deals to players like Ibanez, but what's done is done. I would love for that scenario to happen, too, but I can't see any team being stupid enough to take on Ibanez and his $12 million.

Brown has the potential to be better than Werth, but that won't happen right away. Even if we assume a rebound year for Victorino, you're still looking at a pretty significant offensive downgrade in the outfield. You don't replace arguably the best right fielder in the game with a rookie and not feel it.

Still, I think they're in good shape for next year. They need to figure out the fifth starter spot, but that isn't a major concern. Halladay - Oswalt - Hamels - Blanton is a terriffic top 4 as we saw down the stretch. With that pitching, they will push triple digit wins if they can stay healthy.

I would use what little money they have to try and shore up the bullpen. Durbin and Contreras are probably gone, so I'd like to see them grab cheap, decent reliever or two.


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10-24-2010, 05:20 PM
  #91
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I agree Werth is gone, and I'm not too worried about how they're going to do next year (if they can avoid the injuries of this year... hell, I would expect a bit more from Ibanez given that as far as we know he won't be having offseason surgery). I'm actually more concerned about the defense out there given that Werth is such a good defensive RF, and Brown is still hairy out there.

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10-24-2010, 05:36 PM
  #92
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They need to get an above average situational lefty... if for no other reason to keep him away from another team that will use him against us.
Oh no doubt, I don't want to hand that job to Bastardo. He can steal it later in the season if he earns it, but I'd like to see Lidge, Madson, Contreras, and a vet lefty as the late inning guys. They keep what, 7 relievers typically? I'd take those four, Kendrick or Worley as a long man, and then let the kids battle it out for the last two spots. Unfortunately we're probably stuck with Romero though.

edit: nevermind on Romero, I just realized it's a club option on him next year and not an actual contract


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10-24-2010, 05:43 PM
  #93
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I just wish we could keep Werth and trade Ibanez for peanuts... and put Brown in LF.
I couldn't agree more

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10-24-2010, 05:48 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Werth is gone. With $143 million already committed to the 2011 payroll, there's almost no way they could add another $12-15 million to re-sign him. They probably could have made a deal work if they hadn't handed out a bunch of bad deals to players like Ibanez, but what's done is done. I would love for that scenario to happen, too, but I can't see any team being stupid enough to take on Ibanez and his $12 million.

Brown has the potential to be better than Werth, but that won't happen right away. Even if we assume a rebound year for Victorino, you're still looking at a pretty significant offensive downgrade in the outfield. You don't replace arguably the best right fielder in the game with a rookie and not feel it.

Still, I think they're in good shape for next year. They need to figure out the fifth starter spot, but that isn't a major concern. Halladay - Oswalt - Hamels - Blanton is a terriffic top 4 as we saw down the stretch. With that pitching, they will push triple digit wins if they can stay healthy.

I would use what little money they have to try and shore up the bullpen. Durbin and Contreras are probably gone, so I'd like to see them grab cheap, decent reliever or two.
Seeing how he was used in the playoffs, I could see Contreras being made a good offer.

What do you guys think about bringing Moyer back?

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Old
10-24-2010, 05:54 PM
  #95
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As was said, everything being equal. Our bullpen was pretty damn good this postseason and starting pitching. The breaker was howard. Almost everyone else got an rbi at one time or another and he had the game at his bat multiple times and didn't do one thing. Im not saying the other hitters didn't leave runners on base, but at least one time or another hit an rbi, or werth with that solo shot in the 9th in San Fran. I always said since the reds series, we can't win like this if howard isn't hitting and sure enough i was right. A team can't hit, you can't win.
I'm sorry, but it is ridiculous to blame Howard. He had the Phil's highest batting average (.303) for the playoffs, and a surprising .318 for the LCS. For reference, the next closest phil in the LCS was Rollin's .261. Howard had 7 hits, 4 of them doubles. Yeah, he struck out a lot, but he's a strikeout machine, everyone knows that. As well, he's going up against the best pitching staff in the game and still had the second most extra base hits of both teams in the series, behind only Cody Ross. But you can't blame your team's best and most consistent hitter of the playoffs for the team's inability to score runs. Blame the guys in front of him that couldn't get on base or score when they were on. Blame the guys after him that couldn't get the clutch hit. But blaming Howard is simply ridiculous to me. Howard WAS hitting, even if the rest of the team wasn't.

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10-24-2010, 06:14 PM
  #96
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I'm sorry, but it is ridiculous to blame Howard. He had the Phil's highest batting average (.303) for the playoffs, and a surprising .318 for the LCS. For reference, the next closest phil in the LCS was Rollin's .261. Howard had 7 hits, 4 of them doubles. Yeah, he struck out a lot, but he's a strikeout machine, everyone knows that. As well, he's going up against the best pitching staff in the game and still had the second most extra base hits of both teams in the series, behind only Cody Ross. But you can't blame your team's best and most consistent hitter of the playoffs for the team's inability to score runs. Blame the guys in front of him that couldn't get on base or score when they were on. Blame the guys after him that couldn't get the clutch hit. But blaming Howard is simply ridiculous to me. Howard WAS hitting, even if the rest of the team wasn't.
On the surface, that batting average is very good. But let's dig a little deeper. In all fairness, Howard's batting average with RISP was probably .000. I'm not going to go look up the stat exactly, but I'm pretty confident in saying that he went 0-for the playoffs in RISP situations (given that he had 0 RBI). It's nice that he got hits when there were 2 outs and no one on base (except for the leadoff double he hit in Game 4 when Werth drove him in to tie the game at 5), but all that does is make his high batting average superficial. The guy is paid to hit home runs, drive in runs, and be one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball. He failed miserably in all three of those regards.

Still, as much as Phillies fans are loathe to admit it, the better team won this series. Everything I feared about facing the Giants came to fruition: They pitched better than us, and our hitting continued to be terrible. Are the Giants more talented than the Phillies overall? No. But there is no debating that they were the better team in this series and deserved to win it. They just wanted it more. On that note, congratulations to you and every other long-suffering Giants fan, and best of luck against the Rangers.

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10-24-2010, 06:52 PM
  #97
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On the surface, that batting average is very good. But let's dig a little deeper. In all fairness, Howard's batting average with RISP was probably .000. I'm not going to go look up the stat exactly, but I'm pretty confident in saying that he went 0-for the playoffs in RISP situations (given that he had 0 RBI). It's nice that he got hits when there were 2 outs and no one on base (except for the leadoff double he hit in Game 4 when Werth drove him in to tie the game at 5), but all that does is make his high batting average superficial. The guy is paid to hit home runs, drive in runs, and be one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball. He failed miserably in all three of those regards.

Still, as much as Phillies fans are loathe to admit it, the better team won this series. Everything I feared about facing the Giants came to fruition: They pitched better than us, and our hitting continued to be terrible. Are the Giants more talented than the Phillies overall? No. But there is no debating that they were the better team in this series and deserved to win it. They just wanted it more. On that note, congratulations to you and every other long-suffering Giants fan, and best of luck against the Rangers.
You have to remember you're talking about VERY small samples. He hit well, just not in the right spots... and that was helped along by situational lefties in the key spots (Howard has his weaknesses). Howard had some big hits (including last night) that just didn't result in runs.

On the other side... his teammates failed to knock him in on more than one occasion after he'd gotten on base.

The better team did not win this series. However, that's the way it goes in short series. The Phils have just as good starting pitching, and demonstrably better hitting... just didn't get the key hits in a 6 game series. Of course, I also think we may have won Game 4 if they don't run Ruiz into a *ing idiotic out at the plate. But that's just me.

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10-24-2010, 07:13 PM
  #98
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And again, to re-emphasize, Howard basically carried us to the WS last year (17 RBI), so let's not be so quick to throw him under the bus.

The point about guys not getting on in front of him consistently is pretty good and it's been pretty conclusively proven that there isn't really clutch hitting in baseball.

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10-24-2010, 07:29 PM
  #99
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On the surface, that batting average is very good. But let's dig a little deeper. In all fairness, Howard's batting average with RISP was probably .000. I'm not going to go look up the stat exactly, but I'm pretty confident in saying that he went 0-for the playoffs in RISP situations (given that he had 0 RBI). It's nice that he got hits when there were 2 outs and no one on base (except for the leadoff double he hit in Game 4 when Werth drove him in to tie the game at 5), but all that does is make his high batting average superficial. The guy is paid to hit home runs, drive in runs, and be one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball. He failed miserably in all three of those regards.

Still, as much as Phillies fans are loathe to admit it, the better team won this series. Everything I feared about facing the Giants came to fruition: They pitched better than us, and our hitting continued to be terrible. Are the Giants more talented than the Phillies overall? No. But there is no debating that they were the better team in this series and deserved to win it. They just wanted it more. On that note, congratulations to you and every other long-suffering Giants fan, and best of luck against the Rangers.
My thoughts Exactly! Cmon i knew Howard hit, but we pay him to hit HRs and drive them in!

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10-24-2010, 07:30 PM
  #100
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What could of been tonight, let's go Clifton Phifer Lee!

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