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The Brassard/Filatov/Voracek line thread

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Old
10-25-2010, 06:43 AM
  #101
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Maybe Arniel wants so that Nikita played better.
As do we all.

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10-25-2010, 06:44 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
You probably forgot that Nikita played one season in AHL too. Plus some games in NHL.
It's not that I forgot ... it's just that when you compare Brass/Jake/Nik in terms of the number of and kind of games they accrued ... the numbers aren't even close.

Nik F: 39 AHL games, 28 NHL games
Brass: 173 Q & AHL games, 134 NHL games
Jake: 112 QMJHL games, 168 NHL(already! yipes)

I submit that of those three records - one of them doesn't belong in the same class at all - Filatov.

I'll repeat it here: I believe Arniel is actively trying to find a role for Nik in which he can develop his game on the big club. But if that doesn't happen in a reasonable amount of time - sending Filatov to Springfield has to become an option for Howson.

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10-25-2010, 09:40 AM
  #103
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But Nikita played and played very good in AHL. He played very good in NHL too (lot of games). I think it is a problem of his head but he has a potential to be our best player. And I know he will show it soon.

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10-25-2010, 10:26 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
But Nikita played and played very good in AHL. He played very good in NHL too (lot of games). I think it is a problem of his head but he has a potential to be our best player. And I know he will show it soon.
I hope he can improve as well but he must engage to do so. Near the end of his second line tryout he appeared to be just skating around and watching instead of engaging in the games. Arniel is assessing his play correctly; a month or two on the fourth line will do him some good. I hope to see at least 10 minutes of ice time though, anything less will simply "Brule" him.

Arniel needs to give Nikki some first or second line PP time, he can be effective with a lot of open ice in an offensive setting.

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10-25-2010, 10:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
http://blog.dispatch.com/cbj/2010/10...shtml#comments

Hmm, it is interesting. When Brass with Jake played bad Arniel put them to first line to Nash.
So much for the lineup based on performance garbage they were spewing in the Dispatch. It's funny to watch them tread carefully around Filatov lest he get upset again.

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10-25-2010, 11:22 AM
  #106
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Nikita Filatov - Please Give me the Details

Give me the gruesome details.

Whats wrong with this kid? Is it the coach? Is he lazy? Whats going on.

Its not that im expecting an instant burgeoning superstar, but is he showing some progress or..............................???

Is there a silver lining in all this?

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10-25-2010, 11:31 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Pluckfur View Post
It's not that I forgot ... it's just that when you compare Brass/Jake/Nik in terms of the number of and kind of games they accrued ... the numbers aren't even close.

Nik F: 39 AHL games, 28 NHL games
Brass: 173 Q & AHL games, 134 NHL games
Jake: 112 QMJHL games, 168 NHL(already! yipes)

I submit that of those three records - one of them doesn't belong in the same class at all - Filatov.

I'll repeat it here: I believe Arniel is actively trying to find a role for Nik in which he can develop his game on the big club. But if that doesn't happen in a reasonable amount of time - sending Filatov to Springfield has to become an option for Howson.
I love how this post leaves out Nik's partial season in the KHL, where he was nearly a point a game player. (9-13-22 in 26 games). Granted, he still doesnt have the experience of the other two, and is in his first NHL season. But he has all the talent to succeed in this league, he just needs to mature. I think playing him in the NHL where he can be around other talents who went through a lot the same thing in thier rookie years (Nash in particular) cant be anything other than a good thing.

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10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
  #108
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Actually very few care about Nikki's performance in the KHL. I know I yawn every time I hear about it.

"He just needs to mature" has been said about every 1st round dud since the dawn of time. I don't think he'll be a dud, but until he does it he's a dud.

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10-25-2010, 01:34 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLFreak View Post
Give me the gruesome details.

Whats wrong with this kid? Is it the coach? Is he lazy? Whats going on.

Its not that im expecting an instant burgeoning superstar, but is he showing some progress or..............................???

Is there a silver lining in all this?
Just put him on the bench until he's getting more minutes. Your fantasy team will be fine until then.

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10-25-2010, 01:37 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Just put him on the bench until he's getting more minutes. Your fantasy team will be fine until then.
Good response. Thinking there is something wrong with him, at this point, is quite premature. He's struggling. A very likely outcome that shouldn't be a real surprise. Nor would having 4 goals right now either.

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10-25-2010, 02:05 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
I love how this post leaves out Nik's partial season in the KHL, where he was nearly a point a game player. (9-13-22 in 26 games). Granted, he still doesnt have the experience of the other two, and is in his first NHL season. But he has all the talent to succeed in this league, he just needs to mature. I think playing him in the NHL where he can be around other talents who went through a lot the same thing in thier rookie years (Nash in particular) cant be anything other than a good thing.
I also love how every year there's a new Sister Mary Sunshine who accepts the mantel of lecturing those of us who have seen this series of events play out before.

Every guy drafted in the lottery has all the talent to succeed in the NHL. They don't all put it together because not everyone one of them has the work ethic and tough shell needed to succeed. Does Nikki or doesn't he have those attributes? Time will tell. And, playing in the NHL with guys like Nash, etc., didn't help Gilbert Brule.

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10-25-2010, 02:13 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Good response. Thinking there is something wrong with him, at this point, is quite premature. He's struggling. A very likely outcome that shouldn't be a real surprise. Nor would having 4 goals right now either.
I'm neither surprised, nor worried about his performance to this point. I was merely indicating to the poster that he should place Nik on the bench of his fantasy hockey team until Nik is getting (and earning) a regular shift.

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10-26-2010, 06:41 AM
  #113
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Watching Zherdev and Filatov on the ice at the same time last night was freaky. Didn't make me miss Z and I am glad we don't need Filatov now like we did Zherdev then. This is good for Filatov and so will be playing for Arniel who's style fits Filatov's game,

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Old
10-26-2010, 07:09 AM
  #114
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I kind of just wish people would stop talking about whatever Filatov's ice time is each night and how often he is playing.

I originally thought going into the season that Filatov was a good fit on the 2nd line. Then I realized by about game 3 that those 3 players didn't have good chemistry together, and by game 5 I was thinking they needed to put Brassard and Voracek with Nash.

As a result, Filatov was going to get less ice time. He did look good in Sweden, but since then the best he has managed to do is making some good looking passes that haven't resulted in much, and outside of that has been largely invisible.

Something likes make me think he's better suited on the 4th line. Playing on the 4th line he should be playing like Raffi Torres was doing. Going out there and just taking shots at the goal, which is what he gets paid to do. He needs to get the puck on his stick, walk past the blue line, and figure a way either past the defender or use the defender as a screen and get the shot on net and make the goalie make a stop. Being on the 4th line, he isn't going to be playing against the other teams best defenders. If he can't get started there, he's not going to do much on the 2nd line.

I realize this means he's playing maybe 6-8 minutes less per night. But in all honesty, he's got to start getting on the score sheet before he can maybe move back up the 2nd line. I think his time will steadily get back up there, but he isn't just going to be blindly thrown out there for 15-18 minutes a night unless his play improves or our forwards go down with injuries. He's only 20 years old. I don't think playing in the ballpark of 8-12 minutes a night for the first third of the season is the worst thing in the world for him. It might actually help him channel his energy level and focus more while he's on the ice.

I personally prefer the kind of mixed line look as opposed to the stacked lines look and that's why it's hard to put Filatov anywhere else. I like having Nash, Brassard, and Voracek on a line. And I like having the top 7 players occasionally shuffling as the games goes along depending on how people are playing. You can put Vermette out there with Nash occasionally for important face-offs or something. You can put Umberger up on the 2nd line with Vermette and Huselius or one of the younger prospects.

Now, I don't know why you'd play Boll more than Filatov. My only real guess is that in a game like this against the Flyers, you'd expect it to be physical and dirty, and you'd like to have a guy like Boll on the ice who could fight someone if need be. But I think in most situations against normal opponents, you'd see Filatov more.

For that reasoning, I'm expecting to see a lot more of Filatov Thursday night. I think he'll probably get a good 10 minutes of ice time, where he might get shuffled occasionally with the 2nd line depending on Huselius play if he's on the 2nd line.

The best thing for Filatov would be for everyone to just lay off and stop talking so much about him. Let him figure things out for himself because you know the kid reads everything that people talk about him. Constantly wondering why he is playing badly and why he is getting so little ice time etc. I just hope he has friends on this hockey team who can talk to him and tell him how it is so that he can get out of this funk. This team can't and shouldn't hinge on such a young guy like Filatov, who is a guy where on most teams in the NHL would probably still have him playing in the minors or playing 4th line duty. Only maybe teams like Edmonton or the NYI would have him playing top 2 line duty.


Last edited by Gulvorn: 10-26-2010 at 07:51 AM.
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10-26-2010, 07:20 AM
  #115
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Tell me Gulvorn, what would play Brassard or Voráček (alone, not both of them with one line) when the would play in the fourth line with this ice-time? Ot another player? Filatov was the best in kid line so why Voráćek with Brassard plays with Nash and Filatov plays in the fourt line? Or do we have two tak-masters, one for Filatov and second for a rest of the team?

And our achievments? Yes, we played hard, we forchecked etc. But... where was combination? Do you really think we can play in this style all season? Against better team with a good condition? Philla plays bad any time.

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10-26-2010, 07:36 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Tell me Gulvorn, what would play Brassard or Voráček (alone, not both of them with one line) when the would play in the fourth line with this ice-time? Ot another player? Filatov was the best in kid line so why Voráćek with Brassard plays with Nash and Filatov plays in the fourt line? Or do we have two tak-masters, one for Filatov and second for a rest of the team?

And our achievments? Yes, we played hard, we forchecked etc. But... where was combination? Do you really think we can play in this style all season? Against better team with a good condition? Philla plays bad any time.
One of the problems has been that Filatov hasn't really looked particularly well when on the ice with Rick Nash. We saw part of it in the first 4 games during the power play when they would both be out there, and they were completely not on the same wavelength on the ice. One out pass, the other would be miss it or not expect it, they'd get tangled up, be in the same spot, it didn't work out well.

Filatov had looked good in Sweden but he didn't look good since coming back to NA, maybe decent in one of the games. You can't really move him up to the top line with Nash because they don't seem to play well together.

Brassard has played a lot with Nash so it would make sense to pair them together, especially when Brassard just seems to play so good with him most of the time. Voracek and Brassard I thought, though not getting on the scoreboard, have been playing better creating scoring chances and shooting the puck, and competing without the puck over Filatov. And as a result, Filatov has seen less ice time.

Especially since other players have been playing with a lot more since of urgency then Filatov. Players like Wilson and McKenzie and Clark and Umberger have all looked better than Filatov.

Now true, he hasn't gotten much ice time the last couple of games. I suspect tonight, again, it was mostly because he doesn't match up against a physical obstruction team like Philly.

Against Edmonton, he'll probably see more ice time since they are a younger team and it is likely they aren't really as obstruction based as Philly.

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10-26-2010, 07:46 AM
  #117
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Two good posts, Gul. It's time for people to realize the situation is neither dire nor hopeless - whether for the player or as the player relates to the team.

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10-26-2010, 08:11 AM
  #118
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Random statistic to digest about Brassard.

Has a Home Face-Off percentage of 53%. Has an Away Face-Off percentage of 37%.

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10-26-2010, 09:21 AM
  #119
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We seemed to play an effective gritty game last night without Huselius and essentially without Filatov.. They may not be needed to win right now and could be considered bonus players.

I thought earlier in the season both of them looked pretty good when paired up on power plays, why not try them out together on a line-call it our third scoring line with Mackenzie centering?

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10-26-2010, 09:24 AM
  #120
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Not sure what this obsession is with Filatov and the other two "kids".

If you want a comparison between Brass and Filatov, you need Filatov to have played center at the NHL level. So asking why Filatov isn't getting ice time over Brassard is pointless at this point.

The only true ask is Jake and Filatov. Jake was still working when nothing was working and he has history of success. To expect Filatov to get ice time over Jake is unrealistic.

This sounds like a soccer mom asking why their kid isn't playing.

Now having said that, I have no idea why Filatov only got 5 minutes last night. He certainly wasn't bad enough to get benched. He wasn't great, but he wasn't that much worse then the rest of the team IMHO. I guess Arniel simply has no trust in him in a close/competitive game.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-26-2010 at 09:32 AM.
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10-26-2010, 11:16 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulvorn View Post
One of the problems has been that Filatov hasn't really looked particularly well when on the ice with Rick Nash. We saw part of it in the first 4 games during the power play when they would both be out there, and they were completely not on the same wavelength on the ice. One out pass, the other would be miss it or not expect it, they'd get tangled up, be in the same spot, it didn't work out well.

Filatov had looked good in Sweden but he didn't look good since coming back to NA, maybe decent in one of the games. You can't really move him up to the top line with Nash because they don't seem to play well together.

Brassard has played a lot with Nash so it would make sense to pair them together, especially when Brassard just seems to play so good with him most of the time. Voracek and Brassard I thought, though not getting on the scoreboard, have been playing better creating scoring chances and shooting the puck, and competing without the puck over Filatov. And as a result, Filatov has seen less ice time.

Especially since other players have been playing with a lot more since of urgency then Filatov. Players like Wilson and McKenzie and Clark and Umberger have all looked better than Filatov.

Now true, he hasn't gotten much ice time the last couple of games. I suspect tonight, again, it was mostly because he doesn't match up against a physical obstruction team like Philly.

Against Edmonton, he'll probably see more ice time since they are a younger team and it is likely they aren't really as obstruction based as Philly.
How many times play Filatov and how many others?

Next, Brassard and Voráćek played BAD, in NA whorse than Filatov too (except game against I think Minnesota or Anaheim). And they will play with Nash. According logic they will play in the fourth line similar ice-time as Filatov now. Why not, why did they put to Nash?
Why did not make Arniel a line Umberger--Vermette--Filatov or Huselius--Vermette--Filatov (when Umby still played with Pahlsson). Nikita understand with Vermette and Huselius. According his logic (put to Voráćek and Brassard to Nash for bad achievments) he woul have to play there. But not. He will play to fourth line.
Sorry,

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10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
  #122
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You're trying to put uniform rules for player management with limited players that can realistically play for a few spots.

Also keep in mind that your idea of bad play is obviously not Arneil's idea of bad play.

Jake was a logical person to put with Nash. Of course, I've been saying for two years that I think Jake is the eventual partner for Nash. Partially because Jake is a natural RW, mainly because they play similar games and can create insane headaches for other teams.

Nikki was just the odd man out. Sorry about his luck.

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10-26-2010, 11:33 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
This sounds like a soccer mom asking why their kid isn't playing.

Now having said that, I have no idea why Filatov only got 5 minutes last night. He certainly wasn't bad enough to get benched. He wasn't great, but he wasn't that much worse then the rest of the team IMHO. I guess Arniel simply has no trust in him in a close/competitive game.
Is it unfair, though, to ask why Filatov isn't getting time on the PP? Especially considering his powerplay production in the preseason and in the games against the Sharks?

I can see decreased even strength time, but please put him out there for the PP, and not at the point!

PP F1: Nash - Brassard - Voracek

PP F2: Huselius - Vermette - Filatov

PP F3 (right before PP is over): Umberger - Mackenzie - Wilson/Dorsett

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10-26-2010, 11:36 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You're trying to put uniform rules for player management with limited players that can realistically play for a few spots.

Also keep in mind that your idea of bad play is obviously not Arneil's idea of bad play.

Jake was a logical person to put with Nash. Of course, I've been saying for two years that I think Jake is the eventual partner for Nash. Partially because Jake is a natural RW, mainly because they play similar games and can create insane headaches for other teams.

Nikki was just the odd man out. Sorry about his luck.
blahblah, according logic bad achievments=fourth line Brass and Jake will not play in the first line! But I see that this logic is only with Filatov.

And to Gulvorn claiming that Filatov played against fourt line.
He played especially against Richards line with Giroux and Powe or against Carter line with Žerdev and Van Riemsdyk . With players as Wilson and Boll. I will not say about his SHT and ice-time.

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10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
  #125
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Is it unfair, though, to ask why Filatov isn't getting time on the PP? Especially considering his powerplay production in the preseason and in the games against the Sharks?

I can see decreased even strength time, but please put him out there for the PP, and not at the point!

PP F1: Nash - Brassard - Voracek

PP F2: Huselius - Vermette - Filatov

PP F3 (right before PP is over): Umberger - Mackenzie - Wilson/Dorsett
It's certainly fair to ask - which is not the same as demanding it or suggesting the coach is a fool for not playing him there.

I'm certain there's an answer - I don't know what it is - but if it does get answered folks best be prepared to abide by it.

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