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View Poll Results: Should Scott Howson be fired?
Yes 85 59.03%
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Old
10-25-2010, 01:01 PM
  #101
Samkow
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Umm...except he has had 3 out of 4 "quiet off-seasons." He only seemed to attempt to improve his team in the off-season once in his whole tenure. The other 3 years he seemed to be on autopilot.
Blaming him for 2007 is insane. He was hired in mid-June, not nearly enough time for him to be able to make educated moves.

Would you not argue that the 08-09 Jackets looked primed to make a move up? For you to say that Filatov/Brassard/Voracek had the question marks they have now is pure revisionism. Don't forget adding Vermette at the trade deadline.

So that leaves us with one bad off-season of pitching potentially false hope. Not fun but not enough to warrant a pink-slip.

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10-25-2010, 01:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Maybe to you, but not to too many others (if any) when the signing went down.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658120
Look at the lineup. Look at where Brass and Sammy are playing. Do the math.

Who was the checking line center? Who is now? Who was the top six center? Who is now?

I mean seriously, I can't help it if the boards made a giant assumption that we still have been able to clean up.

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10-25-2010, 01:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Look at the lineup. Look at where Brass and Sammy are playing. Do the math.

Who was the checking line center? Who is now? Who was the top six center? Who is now?

I mean seriously.
Okay. Vermette was Malhotra's replacement. Still an upgrade though.

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10-25-2010, 01:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Okay. Vermette was Malhotra's replacement. Still an upgrade though.
Vermette was brought in before Manny was let go. We can play this forever. You've got nothing. Howson was looking for Brassard or Vermette to replace Manny on the top line and the other to take the other top six spot.

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10-25-2010, 01:12 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Look at the lineup. Look at where Brass and Sammy are playing. Do the math.

Who was the checking line center? Who is now? Who was the top six center? Who is now?

I mean seriously.
The mindset going into 2009-10 (and I'm 100% sure that I recall this correctly) was that Brassard and Vermette would hold down the top two lines (not necessarily in that order) and Manny would be the third line center, if he came back. Instead, Manny held out for a larger contract than Howson was willing to give him. Seeing that Pahlsson was available and was the proven playoff performer that Manny was not, they decided to throw the bucks at Pahlsson instead.

Maybe you don't remember that Brassard had shown top-six line potential in his abbreviated 2008-09 season and many of us (iincluding me) were counting on him to pick up where he left off.

But don't let the above fool you. I'm the crazy one, right?

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10-25-2010, 01:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Blaming him for 2007 is insane. He was hired in mid-June, not nearly enough time for him to be able to make educated moves.

Would you not argue that the 08-09 Jackets looked primed to make a move up? For you to say that Filatov/Brassard/Voracek had the question marks they have now is pure revisionism. Don't forget adding Vermette at the trade deadline.

So that leaves us with one bad off-season of pitching potentially false hope. Not fun but not enough to warrant a pink-slip.
So, here was the hiring meeting:

JMac: So, you can start immediately then?

Howson: Well, define "immediately"? I plan to draw a paycheck immediately, but I expect I'll do nothing this first offseason.

This is laughable. The man was assistant GM of another NHL team. So, I'm not buying the "dog ate his homework" excuse. He was plenty prepared when he came in. That was why we picked him (second). The only reason I ever gave him any cover for this was on the presumption ownership had pretty much told him nothing could be done until Foote and/or Fedorov were off the books. We'll never know for sure if that was the case or not. (And I have argued for some time that it was unwise to not taper in by spending some that first off-season instead of having to blow as much as they did the off-season and making a bone-headed acquisition like Commie in the process.)

As for last year...go back and look at my predictions. Just because you assumed some great ascent for the kids, didn't mean I assumed as much in predicting where the Jackets would finish the season. And I certainly expected Filatov to do much better than he did, but I've never been wholly convinced Brassard is a bona fide #1 center or that Jake Voracek is the scorer that some on here seem to think--I believe I have previously termed him the "New Vyborny." Again, if a novice like me was smart enough to figure out that Brassard et al. weren't the new Toews and Kane, how was a professional like Howson so dumb as to make that sort of assumption. The sort of assumption that this Board has, in the past, constantly (rightly) blasted our prior GM for making.

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10-25-2010, 01:24 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
The mindset going into 2009-10 (and I'm 100% sure that I recall this correctly) was that Brassard and Vermette would hold down the top two lines (not necessarily in that order) and Manny would be the third line center, if he came back. Instead, Manny held out for a larger contract than Howson was willing to give him. Seeing that Pahlsson was available and was the proven playoff performer that Manny was not, they decided to throw the bucks at Pahlsson instead.

Maybe you don't remember that Brassard had shown top-six line potential in his abbreviated 2008-09 season and many of us (iincluding me) were counting on him to pick up where he left off.

But don't let the above fool you. I'm the crazy one, right?
I understand the rational. However, I was also the one saying don't rely on a kid coming off a major injury with only a 31 or so games of productive experience to take one of your top six center jobs. A critical job. One that we didn't even know if he was ready for, even with his offensive performance the year before. It's clear now that he wasn't ready for it. Hopefully we're seeing signs that he finally is.

I was the one saying we didn't have a backup plan. We didn't and we paid for it. When it was obvious that Brass was struggling, Howson didn't make a move. It was a tactical mistake.

The team paid for it. The fans paid for it. Ownership paid for it.

Was it reasonable to hope Brass would be ready for it? Yes. Was it reasonable for Howson to not sign a veteran center for a year or two, capable of playing in the top six, as a backup plan in case Brass failed? It should have been done.

I don't think you're crazy. I think you're letting off Howson way to easy. I also think you are ignoring the end state of that playoff team in favor of the imaginary land of Fairyville.

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Old
10-25-2010, 01:42 PM
  #108
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Howson's plan is pretty clear. His execution of said plan is a work in progress. I've said over and over Howson's cast his lot with his plan.

I would guess we'll know whether he was successful or not by the end of this season. I'm not sure that, should it prove not, it would result in his immediate dismissal. I'll be comfortable with it, though, if it did. By the same token, if there is evidence to show the plan is working/has worked, I'm comfortable in keeping Howson around.

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10-25-2010, 01:55 PM
  #109
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I am not calling on action based on the performance so far this year. If they hadn't fired him yet, there is certainly no reason to do it now.

However, on pure matters of principle, I have a continuing call for his termination. It will continue as long as he's GM, no matter his results.

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10-25-2010, 02:00 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Howson's plan is pretty clear. His execution of said plan is a work in progress. I've said over and over Howson's cast his lot with his plan.

I would guess we'll know whether he was successful or not by the end of this season. I'm not sure that, should it prove not, it would result in his immediate dismissal. I'll be comfortable with it, though, if it did. By the same token, if there is evidence to show the plan is working/has worked, I'm comfortable in keeping Howson around.
I have a simpler mantra--no playoffs, no Howson.

I don't care what other "progress" is arguably visible. (Re)building the minor leagues is nice, but it is one of his lesser duties. The primary duty is to achieve on-ice success. And, given the difficult spot this team is in financially, it cannot afford to continue to simply hope for the best another season. Howson has played with fire and if he gets burned, he should suffer the consequence.

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10-25-2010, 02:07 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I am not calling on action based on the performance so far this year. If they hadn't fired him yet, there is certainly no reason to do it now.

However, on pure matters of principle, I have a continuing call for his termination. It will continue as long as he's GM, no matter his results.
If we reach the playoffs, you would fire him?

If we go two rounds deep in the playoffs, you would fire him?

If we won the Stanley Cup, you would fire him?

A matter of principal. And you called him an ideologue.

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10-25-2010, 02:09 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I am not calling on action based on the performance so far this year. If they hadn't fired him yet, there is certainly no reason to do it now.

However, on pure matters of principle, I have a continuing call for his termination. It will continue as long as he's GM, no matter his results.
Well, seeing as he'll likely be fired at some point, you'll be right (and get your wish) eventually.

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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I have a simpler mantra--no playoffs, no Howson.

I don't care what other "progress" is arguably visible. (Re)building the minor leagues is nice, but it is one of his lesser duties. The primary duty is to achieve on-ice success. And, given the difficult spot this team is in financially, it cannot afford to continue to simply hope for the best another season. Howson has played with fire and if he gets burned, he should suffer the consequence.
Fair enough. I stopped just short of that to allow for considered deliberation. Not that it couldn't lead me to agree.

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10-25-2010, 02:33 PM
  #113
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Scott howson needs to make this team better beacause I don't think he gives a crap about his team guys like Brassard should be the AHL or traded Voracek should be in the AHL Nash should being a acting like a ture leader what happened to him this season so far.Its time this makes some moves they lots of young prospects like young defenceman that they can trade.
yeah.. um.. cool...

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10-25-2010, 02:51 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
If we reach the playoffs, you would fire him?

If we go two rounds deep in the playoffs, you would fire him?

If we won the Stanley Cup, you would fire him?

A matter of principal. And you called him an ideologue.
All my issue(s) with Howson are not purely with performance, and I will not go into them here. However, I can see how you'd come up with that.

The issue(s) I have with his character will never trump his job performance in my eyes.

My apologies if this is too vague but I'm trying to tap dance.

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10-25-2010, 02:56 PM
  #115
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I'm trying to tap dance.
YouTube or it didn't happen.

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10-25-2010, 02:56 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
All my issue(s) with Howson are not purely with performance, and I will not go into them here. However, I can see how you'd come up with that.

The issue(s) I have with his character will never trump his job performance in my eyes.

My apologies if this is too vague but I'm trying to tap dance.
Hmm. So if you were walking past his van late at night, and he offered you candy, you wouldn't go with him? Me neither!!

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10-25-2010, 02:58 PM
  #117
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YouTube or it didn't happen.
I refuse to tap dance where evidence of it can be captured. The world should be quite relieved.

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10-25-2010, 03:00 PM
  #118
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i dunno...i see him trying to stock us up and building the future for the team, yeah, I know he's done "little" for the current. like DSL said, i agree with his plan...and i see it...his follow thru has been lacking...

I'd like to see another major move to improve the team (#1/2 defenseman, #1 center) but not sure he can pull it off with what we have while not taking on the salary...

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10-25-2010, 03:01 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
Hmm. So if you were walking past his van late at night, and he offered you candy, you wouldn't go with him? Me neither!!
Howson: "Tell me, Nik; do you like movies about gladiators?"

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10-25-2010, 03:05 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
All my issue(s) with Howson are not purely with performance, and I will not go into them here. However, I can see how you'd come up with that.

The issue(s) I have with his character will never trump his job performance in my eyes.

My apologies if this is too vague but I'm trying to tap dance.
The ideologue label was your tag from a previous discussion.

Very well, since your issues seem to go beyond what you want to discuss let's let it go at that and agree to disagree.

Peace

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10-25-2010, 03:09 PM
  #121
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The ideologue label was your tag from a previous discussion.

Very well, since your issues seem to go beyond what you want to discuss let's let it go at that and agree to disagree.

Peace
Yep, I know where it was coming from.

Agree or disagree on his job performance and I'll be happy to debate. Hopefully productively. You can't really agree or disagree with my other reasons.

I'm only trying to be fair to the readers and let them know that I am indeed biased on Howson. However, with his performance with the roster (pro and farm) I'll continue to be fair (even if you don't think I am). I think he's doing a decent job with the farm system. It could turn out that he's doing a real good job. We'll be able to judge that better in a couple of years.

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10-25-2010, 03:50 PM
  #122
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I still consider myself a Howson apologist (although my patience is starting to wear thin).

Coles notes theory:
Budget Team = Build through draft and be patient + Re-sign players early and hope to hell they pan out (see Brassard, Derick)

If you want to make your pyramid bigger, you start out by widening the base and work your way to the top. I'm hopeful that our increased depth at the AHL level will begin to trickle up to the NHL level sooner rather than later.

I also recognize that there are 30 GM's all clamouring for the same valuable assets. Trading assets is a zero sum game folks which makes it really hard to significantly improve at more than a snail's pace (luck aside). Add to that the fact that we're not exactly a free agent destination.

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10-25-2010, 03:52 PM
  #123
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i dunno...i see him trying to stock us up and building the future for the team, yeah, I know he's done "little" for the current. like DSL said, i agree with his plan...and i see it...his follow thru has been lacking...

I'd like to see another major move to improve the team (#1/2 defenseman, #1 center) but not sure he can pull it off with what we have while not taking on the salary...
Every team is building for the future. I think it is still open for discussion as to how successful Howson has been at doing so. He's yet to really hit a home run in the draft. He's had one marquee trade. And he's been pretty horrible at the free agency game.

Any number of excuses can be crafted for all of these deficiencies (bad draft position, not enough "bullets," budget, lack of free agent interest in Columbus, etc., etc.), but at some point the difference between a good GM and a bad GM is the ability to make things happen. Howson made things happen his second year here, but seems to have lost his way since. I'd like to know the reason, but it is unlikely I will ever here it come from his mouth.

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10-25-2010, 03:52 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Howson: "Tell me, Nik; do you like movies about gladiators?"
Bwhahahaha!!

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10-25-2010, 04:47 PM
  #125
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Howson: "Tell me, Nik; do you like movies about gladiators?"
LMAO!

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