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Old
10-25-2010, 10:17 AM
  #26
Minister of Offence
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Originally Posted by 9MM View Post
Although I do agree with the quick rebuild, I don't agree in keeping Spezza. He proves to be more and more of a weak link. This year he is turning out to be a more expensive version of Havlat. He is injuried more than he plays.

If there is a team out there willing to take on his 7.5 million dollar cap hit. Take it. Even if the return is not equal it will in prove our cap situation and next year we will be able to pick up so great UFA's. Obviously Kovalev and Leclaire will be gone too.
Like who? I don't mind people thinking Spezza isn't the answer at #1, because he's also one of the lesser true #1 centers there, therefore you have to be stronger in other parts, which were not.

But replacing Spezza through free agency is a pipe dream for a team that up to right now Kovalev or Gonchar are our biggest UFA signings, both past their primes. On top of that dealing Spezza would likely be an equal dollar deal, something along the lines of the Phaneuf trade last year....if your not getting at least a top end pick somewhere in the deal...it makes little sense.

Spezza will play to his potential when there is a cast around him capable of getting that out of him. He's not the guy you want doing the fair share of handling the puck and with Alfredsson aging he's being forced to, and without a sniper to play with he's forced to even more.

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Old
10-25-2010, 11:33 AM
  #27
Ron Jeremy
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Yup.... he needs a trigger man.

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Old
10-25-2010, 11:45 AM
  #28
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Like who? I don't mind people thinking Spezza isn't the answer at #1, because he's also one of the lesser true #1 centers there, therefore you have to be stronger in other parts, which were not.

But replacing Spezza through free agency is a pipe dream for a team that up to right now Kovalev or Gonchar are our biggest UFA signings, both past their primes. On top of that dealing Spezza would likely be an equal dollar deal, something along the lines of the Phaneuf trade last year....if your not getting at least a top end pick somewhere in the deal...it makes little sense.

Spezza will play to his potential when there is a cast around him capable of getting that out of him. He's not the guy you want doing the fair share of handling the puck and with Alfredsson aging he's being forced to, and without a sniper to play with he's forced to even more.
Question is do with live with Spezza, never get to where we want (Stanley Cup), and lose him for nothing. Or trade him now (assuming he's tradeable) get a descent return, and use the money over the summer to help re-shape our team a lot quicker.

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10-25-2010, 12:01 PM
  #29
fried0
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We don't need to trade Spezza or Alfie!

Look at Tampa Bay, they held on to Lecavalier for a long time even during difficult times and after some decent draft picks and acquisitions they are tough competitors.

Another example is with Eric Stall in Carolina, they are holding on to their no1 even after a few tough years.

Alfie is a great player but I think he needs to become more of a supportive player and remain on the second line and not on the top line. What we're missing is genuine first line wingers to play with Spezz to generate some offence. Once we have decent offensive skills our puck movers will be able to create more offensive plays.

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Old
10-25-2010, 12:03 PM
  #30
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fried0 View Post
We don't need to trade Spezza or Alfie!

Look at Tampa Bay, they held on to Lecavalier for a long time even during difficult times and after some decent draft picks and acquisitions they are tough competitors.

Another example is with Eric Stall in Carolina, they are holding on to their no1 even after a few tough years.

Alfie is a great player but I think he needs to become more of a supportive player and remain on the second line and not on the top line. What we're missing is genuine first line wingers to play with Spezz to generate some offence. Once we have decent offensive skills our puck movers will be able to create more offensive plays.
By the time we get a few good draft picks, Alfie will be retired...

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Old
10-25-2010, 12:03 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
Question is do with live with Spezza, never get to where we want (Stanley Cup), and lose him for nothing. Or trade him now (assuming he's tradeable) get a descent return, and use the money over the summer to help re-shape our team a lot quicker.
That descent return would probably not involve a top line player...and relying on free agency to retool a team that is lead by a 38 year and not much else at the moment is a pipe dream. I like what trentmccleary has said numerous times on the subject, we can't accept 2nd liners for Spezza.

We had 3 legitimate top line players at one point and I would consider two of them elite without hesitation (Heatley and Alfie). We lost one to BS, we are in the middle of losing one to age, and proposing to trade the guy given his value is asking to lose another legitimate top liner for something that will take us another step back.

If your going for a rebuild...that 1st line center is a good place to start. But as we've seen is that Spezza probably can't be the focal point. I think it only seemed like he used to be a potential focal point because of his linemates. Spezza's game is a lot easier to love if he's got talent beside him, Joe Thornton wouldn't look as pretty either if he didn't play beside studs but he's also a notch above Spez anyways.

If your going for a rebuild you build as strongly as possible around him. He just isn't that be all end all 1st line center that a couple teams in the league have, and even those guys have high end talent to work with which we don't have nearly as much of as we used to.

Spezza broke into the NHL in a really good situation for a young player...consider it similar to Tyler Seguin, but we were stronger than the Bruins. Spezza's a better player now then he was before but it's just harder to see that.

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Old
10-25-2010, 12:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by trobby View Post
By the time we get a few good draft picks, Alfie will be retired...
A lottery pick could potentially add to the team while Alfie is still here...holding out for the "win it for Alfie" thing is annoying and if that's actually the aim our franchise is taking....it's slowing us down.

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Old
10-25-2010, 12:08 PM
  #33
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Spezza broke into the NHL in a really good situation for a young player...consider it similar to Tyler Seguin, but we were stronger than the Bruins. Spezza's a better player now then he was before but it's just harder to see that.
I think over the last two years (under Clouston) he's improve quite a bit.
He's been the only coach to hold him accountable. All the other coaches said they would, but never followed through.

He's definitley a better player without Heatley..he's less predictable in the offensive zone, and is finally using his shot more.

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Old
10-25-2010, 12:15 PM
  #34
trobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
A lottery pick could potentially add to the team while Alfie is still here...holding out for the "win it for Alfie" thing is annoying and if that's actually the aim our franchise is taking....it's slowing us down.
Personally, I think that's the aim they are taking...

I was just pointing out to the poster that by the time we get those 2/3 picks, Alfie won't be a supporting player, he'll be an executive with the team...that's all.

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Old
10-25-2010, 04:38 PM
  #35
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1st liners:
Jason Spezza
Daniel Alfredsson
*missing*

2nd liners:
Mike Fisher
Milan Michalek
Alex Kovalev(Not sure if he even still is)

3rd liners:
Chris Kelly
Nick Foligno
Peter Regin

4th liners:
Chris neil
Jarkko Ruutu
Zach smith
Jesse Winchester
Ryan Shannon(though he could be a 3rd liner when playing inspired hockey)

Defense:

1st pairing:
Sergei Gonchar
Chris Phillips

2nd pairing:
-Filip Kuba
-Erik Karlsson

3rd Pairing:
Chris Campoli
Matt Carkner
Brian Lee

Basically i think we need 1 more top line player, to push everyone down on the depth char which would give an upgrade at each position. A First line 70 point left winger would push michalek to the 2nd line where he belongs, which would push foligno to the third where he belongs,which would push ruutu down to the 4th where he belongs.

Too bad we don't have enough good contract values to have money to spend on a top line player.

So ideally in the summer, we have to use kovalev and leclaire's cap space to sign a top line player. Then we have to sign a 2nd line player to replace kovalev, or hope that foligno or regin show a 50 point season so they can jump into a top 6 role. If the case, than we need to replace one of them on the third line with a signing.

Next year we'll have

Alfredsson
Spezza
*UFA*

Fisher
Mihcalek
*Regin/foligno/ufa signing*

Kelly
Regin/foligno
Regin/foligno UFA Signing

Neil
Smith
Bass
Winchester

If we don't replace the parts i named(1st line spot, and 2nd or 3rd line spot depending on peter and nick) and we just replace from within than we're going to keep declining.


Last edited by jbeck5: 10-25-2010 at 04:47 PM.
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Old
10-25-2010, 06:22 PM
  #36
kyle747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy View Post
Yup.... he needs a trigger man.
that's the key. We need more goals - we have a lw for him if Michalek can stay there - but Alfie is getting too old. A power forward would be nice - but who the hell can we get?

We can't go with another 'maybe', we have ca$h to spend, we have to get a first line player.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:56 PM
  #37
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trobby View Post
I think over the last two years (under Clouston) he's improve quite a bit.
He's been the only coach to hold him accountable. All the other coaches said they would, but never followed through.

He's definitley a better player without Heatley..he's less predictable in the offensive zone, and is finally using his shot more.
He used to be slow under Martin, he changed that with off-season training.
He became an excellent face-off man under Murray.

It's not easy to replace a player like him.

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