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10-25-2010, 10:45 PM
  #1
BroadStreetTyrant
 
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Do we lack chemistry (so far)?

We had an awesome run in the playoffs, but since the start of this season we have different lines all the time with Lavi trying to get the offense going. The Hartnell Briere Leino line has been solid, but what are we missing? Obviously Columbus came out and beat us, and we seem to be getting frustrated. We have lots of shots, with few goals...no finishing touches! Or is Philly still shaking off the cobwebs and will be getting going soon?

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10-25-2010, 10:56 PM
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TheKingPin
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You can tell that Pronger looks a little shaky from missing time. Carter and Richards do too. I think we will be ok in a few games just need to get those guys on board. Richards is starting to be a litte sharper. Im starting to wonder whats the point for carter. I think if he stays here he cont. to underachieve and if we trade him he becomes a star. Id like to trade him personally.

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10-25-2010, 10:57 PM
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And i dont mean trade him now. Im more talking about offseason.

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10-26-2010, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
And i dont mean trade him now. Im more talking about offseason.
I'm honestly getting real sick of watching carters shenanigans, its getting to be about time i think we trade him for a pair of young forwards. Say St. Louis, Edmonton, Dallas?

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10-26-2010, 12:27 AM
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Problem is Carter is young, has scored 46 before, has higher potential, and we'd be selling him at a lowered value.

And you gotta make sure we dont get future busts for a player like Carter.

And yes, we lack bigtime chemistry right now. They also look slow minus Giroux+Briere line

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10-26-2010, 12:39 AM
  #6
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Well,

Pronger has been our 5th best defenseman so far, but Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, and Carle, to a lesser extent, have all been great.

Our goaltending has been shaky at best outside a few early games by Bobrovsky.

Our forwards are either completely dominating but not finding the mesh, losing battles on the forecheck and in the defensive zone, or refusing to do anything simple/non-flashy like crashing the net and get the dirty goals.

I have to tell you that this run and gun philosophy on the PP and even at even strength is getting annoying.

We have to win battles. No more one and dones. That right now is our significant issue. So far it hasn't been an issue in three games I can count: Opening night against the Pens, the game against Anaheim, and the game against Toronto.

We were outmuscled tonight, but tonight was not that big of an issue. Tonight was the officiating. If we weren't getting held, tripped, and hooked along the boards, we would've been able to find some kind of established forecheck.

The Penguins game was our own fault. We completely lost our cool. Granted, the crappy call against Richards at the end of the 2nd began our downfall into that loss, but the team can't follow Richards' to the end of the earth there. Laviolette had to corral the team, and he didn't I blame that loss on Laviolette/Richards not keeping control of the reigns even though the officiating screwed up one call. From then on it was a crapshoot.

Against the Lightning and Blues, we had the same forechecking issues I've been seeing for a lot of the time this season. We're losing battles in the offensive zone. I don't blame them for losing a lot of the offensive battles tonight, but in a lot of the games, there were no excuses.

The biggest issue I see is JVR - Carter - Zherdev. Those three have immense skill. Too much skill to not work at all along the boards.

Once again, that leads me back to run and gun. Skating in and shooting at the chest does nothing for us (Carter). Skating in and not winning the rebounds does nothing for us (JVR). Skating in and losing the puck to the defense because you're trying to be flashy does nothing for us (Zherdev).

So what did we do when we made the current lineup of:

Powe - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
JVR - Carter - Zherdev
Carcillo/Nodl - Betts - Shelley

All we did is take our three problem children and put them on one line. Those three need to be better.

That said, I wouldn't panic after tonight. Tonight was really bizarre with the officiating. It's something we should've overcome and could've overcome if the problem child line had been doing anything constructive while the money line and the Richie-Roo line were getting manhandled by the Dead Puck Era's renaissance. Those three represent our size. They need to act like it and start winning some battles, getting those points.

EDIT: By the way, for those calling out Richards, outside of his meltdown against the Penguins, he's done nothing wrong. Tonight he looked like a man possessed trying to fight through the full rebirth of the DPE. His line was definitely trying hard, and the money line could do absolutely nothing. Briere and Leino were clobbered and without them Hartnell is relatively useless.

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10-26-2010, 02:37 AM
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Do we lack chemistry (so far)?


"Would a former drill sergeant make a horrible therapist?

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10-26-2010, 04:39 AM
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Only two lines have chemistry. The Payoff line and our 4th line. And honestly, I think our most reliable defensive pair might be Meszaros and O'Donnell.

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10-26-2010, 07:18 AM
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I think the biggest problem is Zherdev. Anyone he plays with craps the bed. You're only as strong as your weakest link and when you have him trying spinaramas all the time and not having a clue how to play without the puck, the other guys begin to try too hard.

The next big problem is Carcillo and to an extent, Powe. They aren't top 6 or 9 players but out of necessity they are being put into those situations.

Add Shelley into the mix and you're set. An exploding chemistry set.

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10-26-2010, 07:34 AM
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One night it is the refs, another the undisciplined play, or they were just off, ran into a hot goalie, not playing hard for 60 minutes, this that and the other thing. Always an excuse for the team.

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10-26-2010, 07:45 AM
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i'm not sure the zherdev carter line is going to work, but i also have no idea who to pair those two with otherwise. carter's style is fine when he's actually hitting the back of the net, but when he isn't, it's just pointless.

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10-26-2010, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
So what did we do when we made the current lineup of:

Powe - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
JVR - Carter - Zherdev
Carcillo/Nodl - Betts - Shelley

All we did is take our three problem children and put them on one line. Those three need to be better.

That said, I wouldn't panic after tonight. Tonight was really bizarre with the officiating. It's something we should've overcome and could've overcome if the problem child line had been doing anything constructive while the money line and the Richie-Roo line were getting manhandled by the Dead Puck Era's renaissance. Those three represent our size. They need to act like it and start winning some battles, getting those points.

.

I know we crossed this bridge yesterday but Laviolette ran out the Powe-Carter-Zherdev line last night and it looked to at least sustain some pressure and get off some shots. Powe is very underrated for what he can do, and JvR is just much better suited to flank Richards and Giroux if Giroux is going to have to play wing.

And one more thing...they got beat last night, not by the refs, but by themselves, they did not come out and play 60 minutes, this is why they lost, not bizarre officiating. Leino/Briere/Hartnell seemed to be able to apply some pressure, just not sure why the rest could not sustain the ability to cycle the puck and keep it deep?

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10-26-2010, 08:40 AM
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One night it is the refs, another the undisciplined play, or they were just off, ran into a hot goalie, not playing hard for 60 minutes, this that and the other thing. Always an excuse for the team.
Wait, what?

Not playing hard for 60 minutes is not an excuse. Neither is undisciplined play or "just being off". Those are problems, and there is nothing wrong with pointing out obvious issues with the team. If I were to say that Giroux played a bad game, would that be an excuse?

An excuse would be blaming it on the refs or a hot goalie...

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10-26-2010, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
i'm not sure the zherdev carter line is going to work, but i also have no idea who to pair those two with otherwise. carter's style is fine when he's actually hitting the back of the net, but when he isn't, it's just pointless.
It almost looks like at times he does not know what to do with the puck if he is not shooting. His passes are way off the mark and never reach their intended targets. Several times over the last couple games I have seen him have possession in the offensive zone and try to create off of a pass but never connect.

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10-26-2010, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It almost looks like at times he does not know what to do with the puck if he is not shooting. His passes are way off the mark and never reach their intended targets. Several times over the last couple games I have seen him have possession in the offensive zone and try to create off of a pass but never connect.
yeah, his game has become even more one dimensional. at this point he might be trying too hard to score goals.

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10-26-2010, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It almost looks like at times he does not know what to do with the puck if he is not shooting. His passes are way off the mark and never reach their intended targets. Several times over the last couple games I have seen him have possession in the offensive zone and try to create off of a pass but never connect.
it is what he lacks between the ears it seems to me. a very one dimensional player he is turning into.

Jeff Carter= Bobbby Abreau

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10-26-2010, 09:01 AM
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One night it is the refs, another the undisciplined play, or they were just off, ran into a hot goalie, not playing hard for 60 minutes, this that and the other thing. Always an excuse for the team.
This is what I cannot stand, and it filters down to the fans, they believe what they hear. I remember like yesterday the 35 game unbeaten streak, each night you would almost know they would not lose once it got past 10, then when it got to about 20-25 you were almost waiting for them to lose but it would not happen. Probably the greatest sporting streak ever.


http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=36469

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10-26-2010, 09:08 AM
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it is what he lacks between the ears it seems to me. a very one dimensional player he is turning into.

Jeff Carter= Bobbby Abreau
Agree 100%. I have used the Bobby Abreu comparison before, it is a good example. Fan favorite who seemingly could do not wrong, won the HR derby, statisticall was always near the top of the league, etc....but just seemed to lack the ability to take it to the next level. Once he left and the next group of guys(JROll, Howard, Utley) took over the change was in motion and after one year they overcame adversity and took the next step. Winners and losers are not defined by talent alone.

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10-26-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
This is what I cannot stand, and it filters down to the fans, they believe what they hear. I remember like yesterday the 35 game unbeaten streak, each night you would almost know they would not lose once it got past 10, then when it got to about 20-25 you were almost waiting for them to lose but it would not happen. Probably the greatest sporting streak ever.


http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=36469
this team showed that kind of heart and determination in the playoffs. too bad that seems to disappear during the regular season.

the season is still young though, so im going to hold off on calling for heads just yet. the overall laziness from last night is inexcusable, however.

also: barry ashbee banner spotted! haha

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10-26-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Agree 100%. I have used the Bobby Abreu comparison before, it is a good example. Fan favorite who seemingly could do not wrong, won the HR derby, statisticall was always near the top of the league, etc....but just seemed to lack the ability to take it to the next level. Once he left and the next group of guys(JROll, Howard, Utley) took over the change was in motion and after one year they overcame adversity and took the next step. Winners and losers are not defined by talent alone.
Yep. People just look at the talent and some dont want to move him. Carter is a very good player as was Abreau. Sometimes you move the more talented player to take the next step.Though you do not make the kind of trade the phils did with Abreau as they got garbage back. I dont have much faith in Shooter making a good deal at all.

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10-26-2010, 10:24 AM
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Only two lines have chemistry. The Payoff line and our 4th line. And honestly, I think our most reliable defensive pair might be Meszaros and O'Donnell.
agree with you completely. except like shafer said. Carle, Coburn, and Timonen have still been good too.

and btw, is you avatar from HotD?

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10-26-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
this team showed that kind of heart and determination in the playoffs. too bad that seems to disappear during the regular season.

the season is still young though, so im going to hold off on calling for heads just yet. the overall laziness from last night is inexcusable, however.

also: barry ashbee banner spotted! haha
As much as I come across as a boorish a-hole I have been a Flyers fan since my youth and was around as a kid to watch the Flyers Cups in the 70's and really be a more involved fan during the 80's, going to games regularly with my dad, suffered the early 90's and the progression into the 2000 season post-1997 embarrassment. In all my years of watching Flyers teams I never remember a bunch of guys who did not come to play every night.

I can take the losses, just don't come out and play for 20 minutes and then say that it just was not the night, that the ref made some poor calls or the goalie got hot. Good teams overcome that.

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10-26-2010, 10:31 AM
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As much as I come across as a boorish a-hole I have been a Flyers fan since my youth and was around as a kid to watch the Flyers Cups in the 70's and really be a more involved fan during the 80's, going to games regularly with my dad, suffered the early 90's and the progression into the 2000 season post-1997 embarrassment. In all my years of watching Flyers teams I never remember a bunch of guys who did not come to play every night.

I can take the losses, just don't come out and play for 20 minutes and then say that it just was not the night, that the ref made some poor calls or the goalie got hot. Good teams overcome that.
Agreed, Columbus got away with quite a bit in their own end. In all seriousness the powerplay has been terrible, so I'm not sure why they think that is an excuse. It boils down to effort and discipline. They didn't get pucks in deep and they took stupid penalties. That kind of effort isn't going to get you very far in the standings.

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10-26-2010, 10:40 AM
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Yep. People just look at the talent and some dont want to move him. Carter is a very good player as was Abreau. Sometimes you move the more talented player to take the next step.Though you do not make the kind of trade the phils did with Abreau as they got garbage back. I dont have much faith in Shooter making a good deal at all.
I have hammered Carter in the past and I know it is not all his fault, but sometimes there are moves to make your team better by removing someone who most will see as too invaluable to move.

It is part of my schtick to see how many will jump when you chastise Carter for being a floater, all the excuses come out and then everyone points to his 46 goals. The 46 goals means squat if you do not show up to play every night when your team needs you, even by not scoring goals, just play like you care, period. IF they got a winger who could fill the void of scoring winger I would consider that a victory, but it going to mean taking some salary back. I was totally down for Quick and Williams for Carter, just because it filled those needs. It would be very interesting if it did come down to moving Carter what Homer could actually get at that point?

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10-26-2010, 10:45 AM
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Agreed, Columbus got away with quite a bit in their own end. In all seriousness the powerplay has been terrible, so I'm not sure why they think that is an excuse. It boils down to effort and discipline. They didn't get pucks in deep and they took stupid penalties. That kind of effort isn't going to get you very far in the standings.
I defer to the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line. A team should not rely on the PP and hard work and a good down low forecheck and cycle can help gain more PP chances and wear down the defense. Besides the LBH line I do not see them getting it done, and it is not for lack of talent of skill.

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