HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Do we lack chemistry (so far)?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-26-2010, 10:51 AM
  #26
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
All I'm going to say is you can't run a puck possession offense without the puck.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 10:51 AM
  #27
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I defer to the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line. A team should not rely on the PP and hard work and a good down low forecheck and cycle can help gain more PP chances and wear down the defense. Besides the LBH line I do not see them getting it done, and it is not for lack of talent of skill.
for 3+ years this team has lived and died on the pp. They are not good at all 5 on 5. This has not changed. When the pp is turned around they will start to win, which is sad in itself.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 10:52 AM
  #28
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All I'm going to say is you can't run a puck possession offense without the puck.
do you [promise that is all your going to say?

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:03 AM
  #29
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
do you [promise that is all your going to say?
Of course not.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:05 AM
  #30
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I have hammered Carter in the past and I know it is not all his fault, but sometimes there are moves to make your team better by removing someone who most will see as too invaluable to move.

It is part of my schtick to see how many will jump when you chastise Carter for being a floater, all the excuses come out and then everyone points to his 46 goals. The 46 goals means squat if you do not show up to play every night when your team needs you, even by not scoring goals, just play like you care, period. IF they got a winger who could fill the void of scoring winger I would consider that a victory, but it going to mean taking some salary back. I was totally down for Quick and Williams for Carter, just because it filled those needs. It would be very interesting if it did come down to moving Carter what Homer could actually get at that point?
Although people might say you have an obsession with Carter as far as making him goat boy I do think it is warranted. He is overrated and one dimensional and the fact it looks like he was dangled in a trade with Edmonton shows that maybe Holmgren doesn't have as much of a death grip on him as some might think especially given his start thus far. I would say if we had more of a supporting cast of offensive players the heat on him wouldn't be as much but given that he's viewed as a core player along with Richards is what gets under my skin b/c as you put it the guy just isn't enough of a factor on a consistent basis. My guess right now is he must be slowed by injury b/c he seems off with everything. But like Meltzer said when he had his two "broken feet" ..he didn't have a broken brain and the guy still exhibits poor decisions. He also seems to get frustrated easily when the puck is not going into the net for him b/c he's limited in creating offensively otherwise. Last night he was making horrible passing decisions and his shot selection again is undisciplined. He's gone on record as saying "everybody knows I like to shoot from anywhere and everywhere" and then also said "I'm not a hitter." Then he's "expressed" being more comfortable being at Center. I mean it seems all conditions have to be right for this guy to produce. Frankly I'm tired of seeing that befuddled look on his face when things are not going his way. At least with Richards he seems to fight through things and will get physical. Anyway, still have to give Carter time but he's wearing on me even more and I have always questioned his will power especially when the playoffs role around.

If the offense continues to avg under 3 goals a game like they have and are down there as among the leagues poorest offenses..it's a no brainer he has to be leveraged no matter what the apologists say. Leveraging him will be a strictly business decision..my concern is his stock is taking a hit so if he picks it up it might be best to try and sell him high. Leveraging him into a couple of solid offensive players and a pick would be ideal. One of those players would have to be good at faceoffs obviously since we still rot at that and Carter at least holds his own in that dept. A trade to LA would be great...but I would want a good young player that produces somewhere in the mix like a Simmonds. Throw in a Handzus for the faceoffs and then another decent player and I'm ok. Obviously to really work out a decent deal to restructure the offense might have to include a Carle in the mix since we're heavy on D anyway. Heck send Zherdev out..he might do better out West anyway.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:10 AM
  #31
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
If the offense continues to avg under 3 goals a game like they have and are down there as among the leagues poorest offenses..it's a no brainer he has to be leveraged no matter what the apologists say.
Even so, you have to ask yourself what puts us in a better position to win.

I'm in favor of moving Carter only if you get a good package back; something that helps us win now.

Otherwise you save it for the draft when his services will actually be sought out.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:11 AM
  #32
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All I'm going to say is you can't run a puck possession offense without the puck.
Which is why the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line has had the most success. The goal last night was a perfect example.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:14 AM
  #33
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
for 3+ years this team has lived and died on the pp. They are not good at all 5 on 5. This has not changed. When the pp is turned around they will start to win, which is sad in itself.
I hate to digress, but the PP can be even more effective if a team can gain more offensive zone possession. In the 3rd period I saw about three or four infractions that routinely would be called on a cycle by Leino-Briere-Hartnell, but even though it was not called it still wore down the defense and can lead to poor line changes.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:15 AM
  #34
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Which is why the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line has had the most success. The goal last night was a perfect example.
The rest of the game was more the perfect example.

One and dones are not acceptable anymore. We have all the skill to make other teams work.

The biggest problem I'm seeing with the one and dones is JVR - Carter - Zherdev, and this extends back to when they were separate on other lines as well.

Last night, when our smaller lines are getting drilled and all kinds of other stuff, it's impossible for them to use their skill for a puck-possession game. That's when our bigger forwards need to step up. I'm not necessarily saying they have to drill everyone, but they need to be able to play along the walls and win battles. Right now, none of those three are capable of doing that.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:15 AM
  #35
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,078
vCash: 500
our power play has zero chemistry. its painful to watch. aside from the blue liners, it often looks like every foward is trying to skate it into the slot himself and take a shot. predictably, this fails. there's a complete lack of puck movement, and when its there, its way too deliberate and slow, so it doesnt open anything up.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:17 AM
  #36
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
our power play has zero chemistry. its painful to watch. aside from the blue liners, it often looks like every foward is trying to skate it into the slot himself and take a shot. predictably, this fails. there's a complete lack of puck movement, and when its there, its way too deliberate and slow, so it doesnt open anything up.
Yep. As I said, we need to get dirty goals, and we seem to have no interest in doing that.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:20 AM
  #37
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Yep. As I said, we need to get dirty goals, and we seem to have no interest in doing that.
lets put hartnell and jvr on the ice, and tell them if they dont each score one dirty point in a PP situation, theyll have a tooth pulled out postgame.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:20 AM
  #38
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Although people might say you have an obsession with Carter as far as making him goat boy I do think it is warranted. He is overrated and one dimensional and the fact it looks like he was dangled in a trade with Edmonton shows that maybe Holmgren doesn't have as much of a death grip on him as some might think especially given his start thus far. I would say if we had more of a supporting cast of offensive players the heat on him wouldn't be as much but given that he's viewed as a core player along with Richards is what gets under my skin b/c as you put it the guy just isn't enough of a factor on a consistent basis. My guess right now is he must be slowed by injury b/c he seems off with everything. But like Meltzer said when he had his two "broken feet" ..he didn't have a broken brain and the guy still exhibits poor decisions. He also seems to get frustrated easily when the puck is not going into the net for him b/c he's limited in creating offensively otherwise. Last night he was making horrible passing decisions and his shot selection again is undisciplined. He's gone on record as saying "everybody knows I like to shoot from anywhere and everywhere" and then also said "I'm not a hitter." Then he's "expressed" being more comfortable being at Center. I mean it seems all conditions have to be right for this guy to produce. Frankly I'm tired of seeing that befuddled look on his face when things are not going his way. At least with Richards he seems to fight through things and will get physical. Anyway, still have to give Carter time but he's wearing on me even more and I have always questioned his will power especially when the playoffs role around.

If the offense continues to avg under 3 goals a game like they have and are down there as among the leagues poorest offenses..it's a no brainer he has to be leveraged no matter what the apologists say. Leveraging him will be a strictly business decision..my concern is his stock is taking a hit so if he picks it up it might be best to try and sell him high. Leveraging him into a couple of solid offensive players and a pick would be ideal. One of those players would have to be good at faceoffs obviously since we still rot at that and Carter at least holds his own in that dept. A trade to LA would be great...but I would want a good young player that produces somewhere in the mix like a Simmonds. Throw in a Handzus for the faceoffs and then another decent player and I'm ok. Obviously to really work out a decent deal to restructure the offense might have to include a Carle in the mix since we're heavy on D anyway. Heck send Zherdev out..he might do better out West anyway.
What frightens me about this squad....Richards and Carter have the same look on their faces after a bad shift, it is totally emotionless, void of expression. I do not want that to spread to the rest of the lineup.

I have called out Carter in the past because of what I have seen over the last year or so, a guy with all the talent and not as much heart. He did not run over my dog, or sleep with my wife, but watching my favorite team go out and see a guy with all the talent just go from shift to shift is totally frustrating to watch, this is my only beef. What is ever more frustrating and why I go around spouting the Cartsieisms is that people buy into the BS that if he scored 46 goals two years ago he should be able to do it again, which is not true.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:22 AM
  #39
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What frightens me about this squad....Richards and Carter have the same look on their faces after a bad shift, it is totally emotionless, void of expression. I do not want that to spread to the rest of the lineup.
last season carter was like that, but i've seen a surprising amount of emotion for carter so far this season. he has looked very frustrated, and angry at times. too bad it hasnt helped anything

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:23 AM
  #40
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Even so, you have to ask yourself what puts us in a better position to win.

I'm in favor of moving Carter only if you get a good package back; something that helps us win now.

Otherwise you save it for the draft when his services will actually be sought out.
while i hear what your saying, what constitutes something that helps you win now? I would think any deal would involve 2 players who are already in the nhl or at least 1 top 6 player. So that helps now so to speak. I also want something to help down the line as well. Depending on the assets you acquire from Carter you can then use those to acquire other pieces. Send a draft pick to the bruins for Wheeler, just an example. If your moving Carter you have to take the best deal you think you canget no matter when it is offered. Whether it be tomorrow, the deadline, next month or the draft.

On a side note the flyers are the only team i never see the dman skate into the slot and get a shot on net. That is painfuil to watch especially on the pp. They are always on the blue line. They never take a chnace to skate in the middle to get open.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:24 AM
  #41
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The rest of the game was more the perfect example.

One and dones are not acceptable anymore. We have all the skill to make other teams work.

The biggest problem I'm seeing with the one and dones is JVR - Carter - Zherdev, and this extends back to when they were separate on other lines as well.

Last night, when our smaller lines are getting drilled and all kinds of other stuff, it's impossible for them to use their skill for a puck-possession game. That's when our bigger forwards need to step up. I'm not necessarily saying they have to drill everyone, but they need to be able to play along the walls and win battles. Right now, none of those three are capable of doing that.
I will use Carter as my example for today because he is my favorite whipping boy. At one point in the 3rd I think Zherdev got pushed around in the crease, a little scrum and Carter just kind of floated in, and just had a disinterest in doing anything. A perfect time to grab a collar and not have to throw any punches but just give a good shake, I mean he is 6'3" and it seems a pretty strong guy on his skates, just give the guy a little tug to let them know you are not going to take any crap, defend your teammates. Nope, nothing, the blank stare waiting for the scrum to clear up.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:27 AM
  #42
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
while i hear what your saying, what constitutes something that helps you win now? I would think any deal would involve 2 players who are already in the nhl or at least 1 top 6 player. So that helps now so to speak. I also want something to help down the line as well. Depending on the assets you acquire from Carter you can then use those to acquire other pieces. Send a draft pick to the bruins for Wheeler, just an example. If your moving Carter you have to take the best deal you think you canget no matter when it is offered. Whether it be tomorrow, the deadline, next month or the draft.

On a side note the flyers are the only team i never see the dman skate into the slot and get a shot on net. That is painfuil to watch especially on the pp. They are always on the blue line. They never take a chnace to skate in the middle to get open.
Well we still have some cap space; something like 4m assuming Walker, Lappy, and Leighton come off the books for the trade deadline on. That would make something like 9m in space with Carter going the other direction.

If at all possible, I'd like to get a vet goalie and two reasonable wingers, preferably young.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:27 AM
  #43
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
last season carter was like that, but i've seen a surprising amount of emotion for carter so far this season. he has looked very frustrated, and angry at times. too bad it hasnt helped anything
I really have not seen much, but that does not mean much because my expectations of him are pretty low. I have been super impressed by what Briere and Giroux have brought each night. Even Hartnell gets some props.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
  #44
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I really have not seen much, but that does not mean much because my expectations of him are pretty low. I have been super impressed by what Briere and Giroux have brought each night. Even Hartnell gets some props.
briere, harts and giroux have generally been bright spots, especially considering hartnell's and briere's last season. JVR is disappointing fast.

carter has shown emotion though, but there wasnt any last night...however, that was generally team-wide as well.

edit: and it doesnt matter how much emotion anybody shows if they arent doing much of anything useful.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:31 AM
  #45
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well we still have some cap space; something like 4m assuming Walker, Lappy, and Leighton come off the books for the trade deadline on.

If at all possible, I'd like to get a vet goalie and two reasonable wingers, preferably young.
dealing Carter i think can get you those 2 wingers, maybe not in the same package but using what you acquire from Carter. That i think will help this team out much better. I also believe for the betterment of their careers carter and richards need to be on diff teams.

Lappy is no doubt done. Walker will be back and they may waive him at that point since most of the season will be played and then let him start fresh next camp. Leigthon who the hell knows that they will do. I expect him to come back only to be put back on the injured list

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 11:37 AM
  #46
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,078
vCash: 500
my prediction for leighton is that he comes back way too soon, plays terribly, hurts himself, gets LITR'd

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 12:01 PM
  #47
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
On a side note the flyers are the only team i never see the dman skate into the slot and get a shot on net. That is painfuil to watch especially on the pp. They are always on the blue line. They never take a chnace to skate in the middle to get open.
Timonen cheats occaisionally, but the rest of the d-fense usually act as a release valve for the fwds and take the point shots off of one-timers point-to-point.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 12:07 PM
  #48
ctay
Registered User
 
ctay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lansdowne, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 24
vCash: 500
Blaming Carter doesn't even begin to address the issues with this team. They are way off. Blair Betts is one of the most perfect Penalty Killers in the league and seeing him flub that dump out was painful. This team expects to play for the Stanley Cup and every other game is just a warm-up for them. They need to get their priorities straight. They need a character guy like Lappy to shake things up.

ctay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 01:11 PM
  #49
dingbathero
No Jam? How about PB
 
dingbathero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
my prediction for leighton is that he comes back way too soon, plays terribly, hurts himself, gets LITR'd
We can hope...

dingbathero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2010, 01:47 PM
  #50
Teezax
Registered User
 
Teezax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,396
vCash: 500
Can't say I'm surprised by the slow start, we're a 2nd half team and have been for a while.
We'll finish 4-6 like we always do and do our damage when it counts, in the post season.

Teezax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.