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Old
10-26-2010, 05:10 PM
  #101
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I mean, yeah, they can offer whatever irrational opinion they want. I just don't necessarily have to respect it. And it isn't personal.
bingo...

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10-26-2010, 05:31 PM
  #102
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So suck a few more years, like we insisted on in 1975, 1976, 1977....years that meant nothing where we didn't try. Those years did nothing to develop those we had....they just were filler for time we needed to draft more kids.
Are you illiterate? Where do I say don't try? Where do I say throw games to draft more? Nowhere. I'm saying DiPi is the goalie of the future. He was an All Star. He needs to play NHL games to get his NHL form back. He can't do that in Bridgeport. If that means we lose a few games now to get him back, that makes sense. Roloson is a filler. A nice filler, but not a long-term solution by any stretch (simply because he has limited time left on his career.)

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Tavares is our future but we'll put him on hold until our fabled hero of 2000 shows us what he's got. Same with Bailey's newfound success and Moulson's continuation and our team's surprising energy and poise. They don't matter.....they're on Ricky's timetable.
You must be a politician, because you build such extremist examples. Exactly how does playing DiPi hinder Tavares' development?!?! Or Baileys or Moulson, etc.?? It doesn't.

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Let's retire Rolo or trade him so we can start Lawson and see if 50 games will show whether he can be our backup while we're at it?
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7461871/


Oh, and I'm rooting for Rick to improve and stay healthy, FWIW. If he earns the starting job with better stats and play, bonus!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/earn


Can we please consider Rollie might have earned the starting job and playing time?
Why retire Rolo? He's the insurance if Rick's health doesn't hold up his reintegration or if he doesn't regain his form. Stop picking the extremes.

As for earning it, he's already earned it and has been an All Star in this league and kept some really bad teams somewhat competitive on any given night. He got hurt. He hasn't played for two years. He needs NHL-level work to regain his form. And, more importantly, the Isles need to know if he'll regain that form. The only way to do that is play him. That's why he's being started over Rolo. If that takes a month or so, big whoop. He needs to get his form back or they need to find out if he's not going to regain form. Why delay this? Do it now and find out where you are so you can plan.

I struggle with why this is a hard concept for some Isles fans. It's asset management 101.

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10-26-2010, 05:34 PM
  #103
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Those are years none of us will get back. The fact we're still Islanders fans is a testament to our stupidity and stubbornness I suppose....but now that there's some light, let's not rush to judge and burn our goalie - or start a thread JUST TO CRITICIZE HIM.

It's absurd.
We're in some agreement here. But only to speak as a devil's advocate, I know that enough of us get a little nervous when it looks like he grimaces after a save resulting in a stoppage in play, or when he's slow getting up. In light of this I kind of understand how the snake-bitten portion of the Isles' fanbase could have enough concerns about him to warrant a thread....maybe a DiPietro "concern" thread would have been a less scathing title.

I need to catch myself, too - these guys have only played 8 games and have a respectable record within those games. I just feel that he may pressure himself to tad too much (obvious understatement) and that it should be emphasized, possibly by Gordon, that his quality will be measured in goals against & percentage rather that shooting the puck to center ice 9 times and getting called for icing or making a turnover 8 of them.

Regardless, a healthy DP is a great player, no doubts there. A healthy smart DP can be elite. This is the conjecture that needs to be made by the coaching staff. He has the drive, he wants to be elite; if he stops 38 shots in a 2-2 game and with 3 minutes left and for the first time in the game all of the sudden hits Bailey with a pass at the other teams' blue line resulting in a goal, we can talk about elite in the present tense.

Again, it's not criticism for criticism's sake; many of us feel we see a calmer team on the ice with Roloson......enough to make a debate of it. I want DP in his best form as much as the next fan; the smoother he plays, the more the team succeeds.....but regardless, turnovers are bad, m'kay?

If he toned it down a peg and stayed in position more, this whole conundrum would bve centered around his health - we wouldn't have to question his decision making process and how it can hurt us more often than it helps.

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10-26-2010, 08:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Landmine Springs View Post
We're in some agreement here. But only to speak as a devil's advocate, I know that enough of us get a little nervous when it looks like he grimaces after a save resulting in a stoppage in play, or when he's slow getting up. In light of this I kind of understand how the snake-bitten portion of the Isles' fanbase could have enough concerns about him to warrant a thread....maybe a DiPietro "concern" thread would have been a less scathing title.

I need to catch myself, too - these guys have only played 8 games and have a respectable record within those games. I just feel that he may pressure himself to tad too much (obvious understatement) and that it should be emphasized, possibly by Gordon, that his quality will be measured in goals against & percentage rather that shooting the puck to center ice 9 times and getting called for icing or making a turnover 8 of them.

Regardless, a healthy DP is a great player, no doubts there. A healthy smart DP can be elite. This is the conjecture that needs to be made by the coaching staff. He has the drive, he wants to be elite; if he stops 38 shots in a 2-2 game and with 3 minutes left and for the first time in the game all of the sudden hits Bailey with a pass at the other teams' blue line resulting in a goal, we can talk about elite in the present tense.

Again, it's not criticism for criticism's sake; many of us feel we see a calmer team on the ice with Roloson......enough to make a debate of it. I want DP in his best form as much as the next fan; the smoother he plays, the more the team succeeds.....but regardless, turnovers are bad, m'kay?

If he toned it down a peg and stayed in position more, this whole conundrum would bve centered around his health - we wouldn't have to question his decision making process and how it can hurt us more often than it helps.
This is a healthy disagreement with a lot of agreement embedded throughout, for sure.

To be clear, I was against the 15 year contract at the time and still am, even without injury.

Did I believe DiPietro was a great goalie in 2006? Absolutely.
Was he flawed in his on-ice decisions and playing the puck? Absolutely.

I don't think the second point will ever go away - hopefully he can limit the impact in time.

Is he a great goalie now? Nope. But he's a very good goalie, far better than Biron was last year, far better than anyone on this team since DiPietro.

Is Roloson the better goalie today? I'd say so. I'm not sure who "won the job" at camp. God forbid we had some media coverage, coach reports, camp details! I won't pretend that DiPietro won the job at camp and that's why he started. Although it's possible, it's likely that the team's contractual commitment to DiPietro and the message that "you're still our #1 goalie, welcome back, we're still behind you" means more in the long run over "who's better at this moment"

I don't believe Gordon will only play the guy to help the team win now. I don't think he's ever done that. Otherwise we'd still have guys like Sillinger, Sim, Bates, Hilbert and a few McAmmonds with a sprinkle of Poti, Kozlov, Fedotenko to "win now" - clearly we're "suffering" through some tough times while the "core" HOPEFULLY gets good enough to make us perennial competitors. That's obvious.

I find it strange that Gordon's contract hasn't been extended. He's done all he could given the assets he's been provided with. He deserves a contract extension. But nothing surprises me with this team.

We all wince whenever any player gets near DiPietro. When he falls down to make a save and is slow to get up. We're all waiting for the next set-back and will all complain when it happens and probably blame a bunch of people - that's just being a fan. I just hope it doesn't happen and we get a goalie who can approach what he was before he got hurt. This team needs a goalie who can carry the team and win a playoff series. DiPietro's probably the only goalie who can do that (who'll be under contract once the team makes the playoffs)

If DiPietro beats the Rangers in the opening round of the 2011 playoffs - I won't be the one referring to this thread - promise.

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10-26-2010, 08:43 PM
  #105
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This is a healthy disagreement with a lot of agreement embedded throughout, for sure.

To be clear, I was against the 15 year contract at the time and still am, even without injury.

Did I believe DiPietro was a great goalie in 2006? Absolutely.
Was he flawed in his on-ice decisions and playing the puck? Absolutely.

I don't think the second point will ever go away - hopefully he can limit the impact in time.

Is he a great goalie now? Nope. But he's a very good goalie, far better than Biron was last year, far better than anyone on this team since DiPietro.

Is Roloson the better goalie today? I'd say so. I'm not sure who "won the job" at camp. God forbid we had some media coverage, coach reports, camp details! I won't pretend that DiPietro won the job at camp and that's why he started. Although it's possible, it's likely that the team's contractual commitment to DiPietro and the message that "you're still our #1 goalie, welcome back, we're still behind you" means more in the long run over "who's better at this moment"

I don't believe Gordon will only play the guy to help the team win now. I don't think he's ever done that. Otherwise we'd still have guys like Sillinger, Sim, Bates, Hilbert and a few McAmmonds with a sprinkle of Poti, Kozlov, Fedotenko to "win now" - clearly we're "suffering" through some tough times while the "core" HOPEFULLY gets good enough to make us perennial competitors. That's obvious.

I find it strange that Gordon's contract hasn't been extended. He's done all he could given the assets he's been provided with. He deserves a contract extension. But nothing surprises me with this team.

We all wince whenever any player gets near DiPietro. When he falls down to make a save and is slow to get up. We're all waiting for the next set-back and will all complain when it happens and probably blame a bunch of people - that's just being a fan. I just hope it doesn't happen and we get a goalie who can approach what he was before he got hurt. This team needs a goalie who can carry the team and win a playoff series. DiPietro's probably the only goalie who can do that (who'll be under contract once the team makes the playoffs)

If DiPietro beats the Rangers in the opening round of the 2011 playoffs - I won't be the one referring to this thread - promise.
Dude, your keyboard to God's ears.

Funny thing about this topic, we primarily agree, although I think that some of these kids are learning how to win. Again, it remains to be seen if they can keep the pace, but Bailey fighting to make plays and winning + Tavares creating goals nearly from thin air shows that they're learning to impose their will - how far it takes us this season remains to be seen.

Here's to hoping the results are to our liking.

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10-27-2010, 12:25 AM
  #106
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[QUOTE=JKP;28551962]Are you illiterate? Where do I say don't try?
Where do you say play the better goalie to win?
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Where do I say throw games to draft more?
Where do you say start the better goalie to win?
Quote:
Nowhere.
Thank you for answering.
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I'm saying DiPi is the goalie of the future.
I read that ad a few years ago.
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He was an All Star.
yeah....thanks Brodeur for the injury and Miller for opting out. He was a solid goalie for two years. He looked like he was finally going to put it together and maybe stop his antics. I remember.
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He needs to play NHL games to get his NHL form back. He can't do that in Bridgeport. If that means we lose a few games now to get him back, that makes sense. Roloson is a filler. A nice filler, but not a long-term solution by any stretch (simply because he has limited time left on his career.)
So we're playing this year to get Rick in shape, not to ride the better Roloson into the playoffs if Rick doesn't improve enough? OK, we're throwing the season in other words?


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You must be a politician, because you build such extremist examples. Exactly how does playing DiPi hinder Tavares' development?!?! Or Baileys or Moulson, etc.?? It doesn't.
When is it the goal of the Islanders to do whatever it takes to win? Just curious? Does the team come before the Golden Child? There is a culture of winning teams have and I would hope people would welcome it.....but we're not willing to embrace it until Rick's ready? OK.


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Why retire Rolo? He's the insurance if Rick's health doesn't hold up his reintegration or if he doesn't regain his form. Stop picking the extremes.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm
Quote:
Definition of SARCASM
1
: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2
a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
b : the use or language of sarcasm
Quote:
As for earning it, he's already earned it and has been an All Star in this league and kept some really bad teams somewhat competitive on any given night. He got hurt. He hasn't played for two years. He needs NHL-level work to regain his form. And, more importantly, the Isles need to know if he'll regain that form. The only way to do that is play him. That's why he's being started over Rolo. If that takes a month or so, big whoop. He needs to get his form back or they need to find out if he's not going to regain form. Why delay this? Do it now and find out where you are so you can plan.

I struggle with why this is a hard concept for some Isles fans. It's asset management 101.
You're his biggest fan I bet. He's eared it....two plus years ago. How is he now? Should his play NOW affect how often or if he is played? If not, I want Billy Smith to start. Yeah, Billy Smith. He could wipe the floor with DP under that criteria. We'd be starting a Hall Of Fame goalie over a fanboy fav and I doubt anyone here, under your strict criteria, would disagree with Billy getting 2/3 of the starts.

"the Isles need to know if he'll regain that form. The only way to do that is play him."
So, in other words, we don't care if we win games, or lose games.....just that we know how well Rick is playing. Got it.

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10-27-2010, 12:33 AM
  #107
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One serious question for fans, BESTEST FANS (see above) and haters and those who just want the Isles to win:

Does this thread exist if Rick is backing up Rollie until he's got time under his belt and has his game back to a level where he earns 2/3 of the starts?

I say, without hesitation, no. We'd all support him save for a few who hate him (his game, I should say) like I used to.

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10-27-2010, 01:07 AM
  #108
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Completely agree, OlTime. Just play the better goalie. It's that simple. Everything else will fall into place. Roloson had a nice rhythm going and was putting up some elite level numbers (.942 save percentage and 1.65 GAA). I just don't see the rush to give DiPietro the majority of the action. Why would it be so bad for him to be eased in and get around 25-30 games this season? And if he starts outplaying Roloson, then you start giving him more starts.

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10-27-2010, 01:20 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by West Coast Isles Fan View Post
Completely agree, OlTime. Just play the better goalie. It's that simple. Everything else will fall into place. Roloson had a nice rhythm going and was putting up some elite level numbers (.942 save percentage and 1.65 GAA). I just don't see the rush to give DiPietro the majority of the action. Why would it be so bad for him to be eased in and get around 25-30 games this season? And if he starts outplaying Roloson, then you start giving him more starts.
EARNING it?

My God, man, what powder dost thou snort?

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10-27-2010, 06:11 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by West Coast Isles Fan View Post
Completely agree, OlTime. Just play the better goalie. It's that simple. Everything else will fall into place. Roloson had a nice rhythm going and was putting up some elite level numbers (.942 save percentage and 1.65 GAA). I just don't see the rush to give DiPietro the majority of the action. Why would it be so bad for him to be eased in and get around 25-30 games this season? And if he starts outplaying Roloson, then you start giving him more starts.
Exactly what I've been trying to say...just you've said it better!

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10-27-2010, 09:52 AM
  #111
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yeah....thanks Brodeur for the injury and Miller for opting out. He was a solid goalie for two years. He looked like he was finally going to put it together and maybe stop his antics. I remember.
A little misleading. He was already elected to the AS game before Brodeur had to pull out because of injury, at which point DP was elevated to starter.

I find the DP hate humorous. I guess as Isles fans we've become to much in need of things to complain about. He's gotten a whole 2 more starts than Roli, and after tonight that will probably be just one more start - but let's run around like the sky is falling and the only reason we aren't perfect at the start of this season is because DP's been granted special super-starter status because the people running this team have no handle on short- or long-term management of the team and its assets.

I'd be happy with a 2/1 Roli/DP start ratio, but if it's the other way around that's fine too, as long as the team keeps winning.

At least we finally have a DP criticism thread. Frankly, though, I thought they were all DP criticism threads already.

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10-27-2010, 10:14 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post

If DiPietro beats the Rangers in the opening round of the 2011 playoffs - I won't be the one referring to this thread - promise.
See, I think what i quoted from you is a little off. I think everyone knows DP has talent and skill and expects him to be our starting goaltender later in the season . I believe we all know that he needs time but my issue is game time right in the beginning of the season where these games are really important. The Isles as of today have been a pleasant surprise to us all. They have picked up for the weak goals. I expect DP to be our goalie and I expect the NYI to beat whoever we play in the playoffs

DP is our starting goaltender in the future maybe mid season but now he is not. He needs more time as I have stated. I think if he progresses and gets back to normal form, we will be in the playoffs and sweep NYR


I do not agree that he has earned the starting position from what he did two years ago like some have stated. Can't live in the past, its what are you doing now. This is not directed at you Redbull.

Also, we should probably change the thread title to more of a DP discussion. I am not into talking smack about him but to analyze his game play so far. Which has not been good.

Of course we are going to get the "dp sucks so much". People will hate him for multiple reasons like:

  • 15 year contract
  • Cocky
  • Plays the puck to much
I wasn't a fan of him when we drafted him. He is an Islander so that is all it needs for me. I don't care about the contract since we can't do anything about it and he is on my favorite team.

I want DP to succeed and be back in the All Star game or maybe just make the All Star team and decline to play would be better as well as help NYI win a cup

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10-27-2010, 10:32 AM
  #113
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I'll just sum it up right here:

Rolie - best goalie on the Isles, should be starter

DP - finally healthy, rusty, basically 2 years off. Need this year to shake off the rust and get back up to at least a comparable level to where he was previously at. Some games will look great(TB) and others like crap(FL). Just the way it's going to be.

Probably be best to treat DP's expectations like one of a rookie and just let him be. There is no point in expecting him to be totally on top of his game so soon after coming back.

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10-27-2010, 11:39 AM
  #114
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See, I think what i quoted from you is a little off. I think everyone knows DP has talent and skill and expects him to be our starting goaltender later in the season . I believe we all know that he needs time but my issue is game time right in the beginning of the season where these games are really important. The Isles as of today have been a pleasant surprise to us all. They have picked up for the weak goals. I expect DP to be our goalie and I expect the NYI to beat whoever we play in the playoffs

DP is our starting goaltender in the future maybe mid season but now he is not. He needs more time as I have stated. I think if he progresses and gets back to normal form, we will be in the playoffs and sweep NYR
I think the games are equally important over all 82. In the Islanders case, I agree with you that these early games are more important ONLY because I believe early season wins can build team confidence, helping the team through those tough games before Christmas, approach mid-season with a better view of who they are as a team.

But DiPietro can ONLY get to his peak by playing in the NHL. That's no different than Nino, Bailey, Tavares.

I truly believe it's in the TEAM's best interest to get DiPietro back to form ASAP.

It's likely that the Islanders will be sellers at the deadline and many of the same Roloson supporters, today, will be pushing for a trade in February to a contender that needs a goalie (and I suggest the Flyers will be part of that conversation. Stay tuned)


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I wasn't a fan of him when we drafted him. He is an Islander so that is all it needs for me. I don't care about the contract since we can't do anything about it and he is on my favorite team.

I want DP to succeed and be back in the All Star game or maybe just make the All Star team and decline to play would be better as well as help NYI win a cup
I wasn't a fan in the beginning either - mainly because of Luongo (not sure how I feel about that now though!) I didn't like that draft at all. Gaborik was the guy I wanted the most but really wasn't sure what he'd bring - tough without watching him play. I thought Heatley was overrated (not sure if I was wrong or not) and I didn't like Klesla or Torres.

It's too bad we got such a poor return for Luongo....but holycrap, do we really want to go back there!

I'd be perfectly happy to see them alternate starts and go with the hot goalie whenever. But I'm not the coach. I know Gordon's in the last year of his deal and I'm fairly sure he likes winning. It's possible that Gordon feels DiPietro's his best shot at accomplishing that, if not for the immediate next start, maybe for the whole season.

I agree with your reasons of why fans can't stand DP, I see that, but fans always turn on players unfairly. Being in the Toronto market and watching what Sundin went through for years, unfairly for the most part, seeing how Montreal fans turn on their own - it's not surprising.

He's an Islander. He was once a great goalie who was improving every year. Getting that guy back into form (or close to it) is a risk I'm willing to take at this time.

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10-27-2010, 11:42 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
I'll just sum it up right here:

Rolie - best goalie on the Isles, should be starter

DP - finally healthy, rusty, basically 2 years off. Need this year to shake off the rust and get back up to at least a comparable level to where he was previously at. Some games will look great(TB) and others like crap(FL). Just the way it's going to be.

Probably be best to treat DP's expectations like one of a rookie and just let him be. There is no point in expecting him to be totally on top of his game so soon after coming back.
...nothing else should need to be said here...Perfectly stated Bruno.

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10-27-2010, 12:11 PM
  #116
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A little misleading. He was already elected to the AS game before Brodeur had to pull out because of injury, at which point DP was elevated to starter.

I find the DP hate humorous. I guess as Isles fans we've become to much in need of things to complain about. He's gotten a whole 2 more starts than Roli, and after tonight that will probably be just one more start - but let's run around like the sky is falling and the only reason we aren't perfect at the start of this season is because DP's been granted special super-starter status because the people running this team have no handle on short- or long-term management of the team and its assets.

I'd be happy with a 2/1 Roli/DP start ratio, but if it's the other way around that's fine too, as long as the team keeps winning.

At least we finally have a DP criticism thread. Frankly, though, I thought they were all DP criticism threads already.
So which of Miller, Thomas and Brodeur is Rick? Miller cancelled, DiPietro makes it. Brodeur opts out, Vokoun gets on, DP named starter, Vokoun being Brodeur's replacement.

So he didn't replace anyone?

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10-27-2010, 03:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
So which of Miller, Thomas and Brodeur is Rick? Miller cancelled, DiPietro makes it. Brodeur opts out, Vokoun gets on, DP named starter, Vokoun being Brodeur's replacement.

So he didn't replace anyone?
You're clearly remembering something different than I am. I have no recollection of Miller being named an All Star, nor of him declining. A quick web search showed me nothing of that sort either, but maybe I am wrong.

Still, if DP were the 4th or 5th man in, I don't see how Thomas wouldn't have been named starter after Brodeur had to pull out.

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10-27-2010, 03:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Go Go Green View Post
You're clearly remembering something different than I am. I have no recollection of Miller being named an All Star, nor of him declining. A quick web search showed me nothing of that sort either, but maybe I am wrong.

Still, if DP were the 4th or 5th man in, I don't see how Thomas wouldn't have been named starter after Brodeur had to pull out.
I didn't understand the decision, either; Thomas was having a helluva year. Miller was hurt during the voting process but won (he was having a breakout year as well). I believe DP was fifth in voting, or sixth (Lundqvist got more votes I recall).

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10-27-2010, 03:40 PM
  #119
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I didn't understand the decision, either; Thomas was having a helluva year. Miller was hurt during the voting process but won (he was having a breakout year as well). I believe DP was fifth in voting, or sixth (Lundqvist got more votes I recall).
Voting, to me at least, doesn't mean a whole lot beyond who ends up #1. To wit, the order was:

Brodeur
Lundquist
Huet
Biron
Miller
Emery
DP (7th)

Vokoun finished a distant 10th and Thomas and even more distant 12th. No shock that the goaltenders for the Rangers and Canadiens got more votes than those for NYI and Florida.

My quick web search on Miller did turn up a website where Miller was being made the whipping boy of the Sabres, circa January 2008. I'm not sure he was off to the start you're making him out to have had (and I'm still not sure you're right about him making the team and cancelling).

In any case, ASG voting is a poor measure of a player's ability - it's more a measure of his popularity combined with the popularity of the sweater he wears.

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10-27-2010, 04:00 PM
  #120
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Does anyone really care about the votes for the dumb all-star game? I mean, really?

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10-27-2010, 04:14 PM
  #121
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Does anyone really care about the votes for the dumb all-star game? I mean, really?
Perhaps we need a DiPietro Criticism Thread Criticism Thread.

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10-27-2010, 04:40 PM
  #122
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Perhaps we need a DiPietro Criticism Thread Criticism Thread.
I vote for this

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10-27-2010, 05:07 PM
  #123
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I don't know why I feed the troll but...

Miller was not asked to be in the 2007-08 All Star Game. He didn't withdraw his services. He wasn't injured. For GOD's Sake he played almost every Sabre game that year.

It was:
Brodeur (vote)
DiPietro
Vokoun

When Brodeur dropped out he was replaced by Thomas.

Why must we go through this over and over again?!?!?!?!

All you have to do is go to the NHL website rather than going through your antiquated revisionist history propoganda.

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10-27-2010, 05:58 PM
  #124
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Perhaps we need a DiPietro Criticism Thread Criticism Thread.
ask SAL about that..

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10-27-2010, 07:15 PM
  #125
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ask SAL about that..
Thanks! LOL!

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