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Old
10-27-2010, 12:29 PM
  #1
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Carter trade rumors heating up

Well, ready as clockwork, after the funk the Carter trade rumors have started up, e.g. this from Sports Illustrated.

I have to admit, I'm not really opposed to this idea. The Flyers have definitely problems getting their lines in order, and trading Carter for an actual wing could be good, and it could potentially free up cap space and prevent trouble trying to resign Carter.

However, Carter is also a high-quality player with a lot of potential, even if he didn't necessarily live up to it as of late. There is also probably not many wingers of similar potential on the market. That winger would have a demanding salary as well though. It could be a very risky trade if made.

I could see a trade for a decent winger in the 2-3 million dollar range alongside a 1st round pick. The lack of salary would also help a lot in re-signing players like Giroux and Leino.


And yes, I would have traded Carter before Gagne in the offseason, but don't make this into another "Let's flame Holmgren" thread. It's not like Gagne has done anything for the Bolts so far except amass a -8 rating in 6 games and get on IR.

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10-27-2010, 12:35 PM
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Trading Carter for this season doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because I doubt we're going to get a player who can equal his output and isn't signed long term. The only thing the Flyers really are in need of is a goaltender, and I would think it would be one who has an expiring deal or a deal that runs out next year. If they got a UFA goalie and a blue chip prospect I would be ok with it, but I don't think too many teams will make that deal. I really don't see an awful lot to gain with trading Carter at this point in the year.

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10-27-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Trading Carter for this season doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because I doubt we're going to get a player who can equal his output and isn't signed long term. The only thing the Flyers really are in need of is a goaltender, and I would think it would be one who has an expiring deal or a deal that runs out next year. If they got a UFA goalie and a blue chip prospect I would be ok with it, but I don't think too many teams will make that deal. I really don't see an awful lot to gain with trading Carter at this point in the year.
Yeah, I think the Flyers will stand pat until the trade deadline.

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10-27-2010, 12:41 PM
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Trading Carter for this season doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because I doubt we're going to get a player who can equal his output and isn't signed long term. The only thing the Flyers really are in need of is a goaltender, and I would think it would be one who has an expiring deal or a deal that runs out next year. If they got a UFA goalie and a blue chip prospect I would be ok with it, but I don't think too many teams will make that deal. I really don't see an awful lot to gain with trading Carter at this point in the year.
I dont see a point of trading Carter at all. Briere is in his 30's, he cant play Center well much longer anyway (and I'd argue since he is a PP guy, he shouldnt be Center right now anyway, his ES numbers are nothing special and he is a defensive liability at Center). If you dont factor Briere in and have Richards, Carter and Giroux as your centers, there is literally no Center depth behind them anyway.

I'd move Briere to wing and try to get Carter re-signed. I'd only move Carter if the indication was he wanted too much money. Otherwise I'd offer Carter $6 per for 4 years or something like that.

Move Hartnell and Carcillo for picks/prospects before moving Carter.

But hey, that might be just me. For a team with such 'offensive depth' we sure have trouble scoring goals, yet everyone wants Carter gone. I get he is not Richards and plays a different game, but in many ways, he is easily our top scoring threat.

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10-27-2010, 12:44 PM
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I would go so far as to say that'd not even a news article.

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10-27-2010, 01:07 PM
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I fancy the idea of moving Carter. He's a predictable player that produces unpredictable results. So I'd rather not see the Flyers retain him, unless he's willing to maintain his $5 million dollar cap hit - which I doubt he is.

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10-27-2010, 01:10 PM
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You don't just trade away a 40 goal Center (and the only one of the team able to take a faceoff) for nothing. I am not saying that there aren't wingers out there that I'd love to have, but I am not sure that it's possible to snag one of them.

The Flyers obviously have issues with their lines but it's a complicated set of problems to solve.

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10-27-2010, 01:12 PM
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It is real simple probably. If they cant resign him to a long term deal he is as good as gone.

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10-27-2010, 01:18 PM
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I would really have to look into who we got in return before I made a decision on this. If it was someone like, (and this is just an example) Rene Bourque and a 1st I'd probably go for it. Not saying this is a trade that has been rumored or even that it ever would be done by either team, just that if something like that would be offered, I'd go for it.

Bourque-Richards-JVR
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Powe-Giroux-Zherdev
Shelley-Betts-Nodl/Carcillo

That don't look too bad. Although I would prefer trading other pieces to get that third line winger, but that doesn't seem likely.

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10-27-2010, 01:20 PM
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If you can move Carter and get something of value to fill a need(natural scoring winger for example, or legit starting goalie) you make the move and get it done. As it is Giroux is higher in the pecking order to get resigned, and Leino is also getting strong consideration.

All things considered all of Giroux, Richards, and Briere are more well rounded and better at center than what Carter has shown, AND they each show up in the playoffs.

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10-27-2010, 01:25 PM
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just about anyone can be traded. I just hope they dont do a stupid panic move if they feel they cant lock him up long term. You get a good deal, you take it.

oh wait, this is Holmgren. we will probably trade him to Florida for Brian McCabe and a 4th.

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10-27-2010, 01:26 PM
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I wouldn't be too rash about his playoff performances. He had a great first playoff year. The next was very short lived as a team and yes, he didn't produce much in those 6 games. Last year on 2 broken feet I give a pass considering he still had 11 pts in the 17 games.

In terms of his trade value, definitely if the team can add a reasonable scoring winger with a smaller cap hit and also pick up a defenseman prospect then it makes sense. I am not opposed to keeping him around and trying to re-sign all FA's in the offseason. There will be other pieces departing and possible cap increases so it's not impossible.

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10-27-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If you can move Carter and get something of value to fill a need(natural scoring winger for example, or legit starting goalie) you make the move and get it done. As it is Giroux is higher in the pecking order to get resigned, and Leino is also getting strong consideration.

All things considered all of Giroux, Richards, and Briere are more well rounded and better at center than what Carter has shown, AND they each show up in the playoffs.
Dude, in all seriousness you need to get some bit of objectivity. There is nothing "well rounded" about Briere's game. Nothing.

Giroux isn't a strong defensive center at all in his own right, so calling him "well rounded" isn't really an accurate reflection of reality either.

BTW, it's still amazing to me that a dude who spent the vast majority of his hockey life playing right wing is now a "natural" center.

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10-27-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
You don't just trade away a 40 goal Center (and the only one of the team able to take a faceoff) for nothing. I am not saying that there aren't wingers out there that I'd love to have, but I am not sure that it's possible to snag one of them.

The Flyers obviously have issues with their lines but it's a complicated set of problems to solve.
I hate to do this, but he scored 40 goals once. He is a good player but I seriously doubt he will ever reach that plateau again. You can expect him to be a 30-35 goal scorer much like Ollie Jokinen, but he does not have the type of game that really fits the roster and the cap space.

Right now he is maybe the 5th/6th best fwd on this team(Giroux, Briere, Leino, Richards, Hartnell, Carter, Zherdev, JvR, Powe) and given the choice I sign Giroux and Leino before even negotiating with Carter. So if you can move Giroux back to center where he is stronger and get a scoring winger out of the deal I will pack Jeff Carters bags for him. We overvalue the 46 goal thing way too much.

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10-27-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
I wouldn't be too rash about his playoff performances. He had a great first playoff year. The next was very short lived as a team and yes, he didn't produce much in those 6 games. Last year on 2 broken feet I give a pass considering he still had 11 pts in the 17 games.

In terms of his trade value, definitely if the team can add a reasonable scoring winger with a smaller cap hit and also pick up a defenseman prospect then it makes sense. I am not opposed to keeping him around and trying to re-sign all FA's in the offseason. There will be other pieces departing and possible cap increases so it's not impossible.
He is soft. Soft players do not rise to the level of the playoff game. They are better during the regular season because they can play against teams who will not defend them. Carter........push him wide, make him shoot, and counter with a quick line change and an odd-man rush. There is a reason why teams shut him down, he is easily defensible. It is so obvious I am not sure why anyone would even discuss about Carters playoff performances.

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10-27-2010, 01:40 PM
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Carter just doesnt really seem to have chemistry with our offense. Hes talented enough to still get his points, but seems out of place. Coincidence or not, but our offense was geling really well in the playoffs til he came back...then it became where do you put him?

I am not sure who the ideal trading partner would be, but I wonder if they could get a couple of scoring forwards (along with picks, depending on who the players are they are getting).

Maybe a younger cheap scoring winger, who they wont have to worry about signing for a year or two...and a vet center with some size who can win some draws.

XXXX-Richards-Giroux
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
JVR-XXXX-Zherdev
Carcillo-Betts-Powe
Shelley

A trade like that would kinda fill out our top 9 and give us a really deep offense. I am not sure what team has the pieces to fill those XXXX, but it would be nice to see.

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Old
10-27-2010, 01:41 PM
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BTW, it's still amazing to me that a dude who spent the vast majority of his hockey life playing right wing is now a "natural" center.
That kind of amazed me about the article as well.

Carter is our only legitimate size down the middle regardless of whether Giroux, Briere, and Richards can all be centers.

Carter is our second best faceoff man besides Betts, even though Giroux at times doesn't appear too bad.

Carter is our second best defensive forward in the top 9 besides Richards, unless you really consider Powe top 9 or even consider Powe better.

Carter is the best pure goal-scorer on our team.

He's a streaky scorer, and since the Flyers' fanbase has a particular reaction to overreact to every little detail that recently occurred, there will be periods when everyone wants to trade him and there will be periods when everyone loves him.


The real question is, since if he gets traded it will most likely be after the postseason, what do you value more:

Giroux + Zherdev + Leino + return for Carter (assuming we can retain Zherdev and Leino for the amount that Carter would sign for)

or

Giroux + Carter

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10-27-2010, 01:42 PM
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If Carter is traded, it won't be until after the season. During the season, big trades is something Holmgren just doesn't do.

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10-27-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
He is soft. Soft players do not rise to the level of the playoff game. They are better during the regular season because they can play against teams who will not defend them. Carter........push him wide, make him shoot, and counter with a quick line change and an odd-man rush. There is a reason why teams shut him down, he is easily defensible. It is so obvious I am not sure why anyone would even discuss about Carters playoff performances.
Helps when he's playing on two broken feet, or has a bum right shoulder (the one he generates his shot with).

But, ****, who wants to be fair with a player when we can just bash him and put forward absurd statements like Briere being "well rounded."

BTW, his one healthy playoff run (outside of his rookie year when the team got shellacked by the Sabres), Carter pretty much perfectly replicated his regular season production (what you expect from players).

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10-27-2010, 01:43 PM
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Carter is great. Maybe he is being misused, much like Pither on the phantoms. 40 goal scoring centers dont grow on trees. You dont trade them away. You weaken your team. He provides size down the middle.

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10-27-2010, 01:44 PM
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Dude, in all seriousness you need to get some bit of objectivity. There is nothing "well rounded" about Briere's game. Nothing.

Giroux isn't a strong defensive center at all in his own right, so calling him "well rounded" isn't really an accurate reflection of reality either.

BTW, it's still amazing to me that a dude who spent the vast majority of his hockey life playing right wing is now a "natural" center.
Offensively Briere and Giroux are more well rounded.

Defensively Carter is better than both Giroux and Briere, but with that said, you're underrating Giroux's defensive ability. Giroux is a smart player who has good instincts, he wouldn't be on the PK if he wasn't a strong defensive player.

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10-27-2010, 01:44 PM
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Carter is great. Maybe he is being misused, much like Pither on the phantoms. 40 goal scoring centers dont grow on trees. You dont trade them away. You weaken your team. He provides size down the middle.
When Carter (Pither) is scratched for Shelley (Klotz), you let me know.

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10-27-2010, 01:45 PM
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Carter for Ryan?

For real though, I'm not seeing Carter being traded. I don't agree with the article about big changes are needed. That's ********, what do we really need on this team?

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10-27-2010, 01:46 PM
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Dude, in all seriousness you need to get some bit of objectivity. There is nothing "well rounded" about Briere's game. Nothing.

Giroux isn't a strong defensive center at all in his own right, so calling him "well rounded" isn't really an accurate reflection of reality either.

BTW, it's still amazing to me that a dude who spent the vast majority of his hockey life playing right wing is now a "natural" center.
Jeff Carter, square peg, meet round hole. Given the choice would you take Giroux or Carter? This is basically the situation.


As far as Giroux, he played RW in Gatineau but if you followed him during his career there he actually also spent some time playing center, he is versatile, something Jeff Carter is not. Giroux makes players around him better. Jeff Carter, well he makes Jeff Carter better. Claude Giroux has taken twice as many facefoffs this season for a 49.5% rate, Jeff Carter has taken 51 faceoffs at a 54% rate. Claude Giroux has been given the offensive zone faceoffs over Carter by the coach, even though Jeff Carter is a superior centerman. Can you not see where this is going? Just because a guy has talent and skills does not always make him the best choice to win a championship.

Thus, given the choice if Homer can get value in return to get a natural winger to complement guys like Giroux who make players around them better then the TEAM is better off even if it means sacrificing a guy who statistically looks good.

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10-27-2010, 01:46 PM
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That kind of amazed me about the article as well.

Carter is our only legitimate size down the middle regardless of whether Giroux, Briere, and Richards can all be centers.

Carter is our second best faceoff man besides Betts, even though Giroux at times doesn't appear too bad.

Carter is our second best defensive forward in the top 9 besides Richards, unless you really consider Powe top 9 or even consider Powe better.

Carter is the best pure goal-scorer on our team.

He's a streaky scorer, and since the Flyers' fanbase has a particular reaction to overreact to every little detail that recently occurred, there will be periods when everyone wants to trade him and there will be periods when everyone loves him.
correct

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