HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Carter trade rumors heating up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-27-2010, 02:20 PM
  #51
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
I do not give giroux 4mm just yet. GM's need to start using their RFA status to their advantage. Go one year at a time until you have to lock him up long term. If it cost you a little more then so be it. No need to give these guys big ticket contracts just yet imo. Hopefully the next cba they go back ot the old free agency age and ruels or at least something close.
Giroux was brutal in the second half of last year prior to having the excellent playoff run. They cannot commit a big contract at the expense of someone like Carter in Giroux right now.

That's without getting into the fact that Briere is getting up there... and he will increasingly become an injury problem (already has manifested some) and overall liability as that contract progresses.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:25 PM
  #52
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,616
vCash: 500
You can always tell who knows what they're talking about when it comes to Carter discussions.

Anyways, Carter is our best faceoff guy, our second best two-way forward, our best goal-scorer, and our only center with size. No way he should be traded unless the package is something we can't pass up.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:26 PM
  #53
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
From what I saw it was the other way around. I remember a few times (before Giroux scored his faceoff goal) that Giroux was lineing up taking the faceoffs and working the middle while Carter was on the RW. I even posted it in the GDT. If Carter was our 2nd best center/faceoff guy, wouldnt he be taking the faceoff instead of Giroux?
Well, Giroux's goal was a PP goal... so bit of a different animal. Giroux did take the most faceoffs on the team, though. I wasn't really paying attention to much of the game... when I turned it back on we were slaughtering 'em, so only casually paid attention.

Carter has been our best faceoff guy over the last couple of years... independent of whether Lavy wants to put him out there for the draws or not. None of them are really that great though, so maybe he's seeing if Giroux will develop into a faceoff stud (no evidence of it yet)... what we really need is Richards to improve there, but alas... no sign of that yet either.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:27 PM
  #54
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm expecting Carter and Giroux to combine for about $10m in cap space total. So something like $6.00m for Carter and $4.00m for Giroux.

I'm hoping Leino comes for $2.00m, but I'm not optimistic.

That's why I said it's:

Leino (3.00) + Zherdev (3.00) + return for Carter

vs.

Carter (6.00)


Remember also that trading Carle might be an option. That would free up another $3.44m. That could give us Leino.
Concern I have is going to be this is Jeff Carters first contract where he can dictate the terms for the most part. The original money I am not as concerned with as the years considering that Briere and Richards are locked up long term. Does Carter want a 7 year deal? If so that is going to make Giroux expendable. If Briere were nto part of the deal with his contract I would say he could be an option to go, but after his playoffs and his performance with Leino and Hartnell I would be hesitant to mess with that.

I am also skeptical that Zherdev is going to be here long term, but again that will be some free space if he goes. The biggest question for me is the immediate transition to the longterm....does moving Carter make this team better right now by filling a spot at wing as well as freeing up necessary cap space to resing those above players and improve with players/prospects/picks in return? I look to the playoff success for my answer....this team won despite not having Carter.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:29 PM
  #55
jb**
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Planet Lovetron
Country: Italy
Posts: 8,556
vCash: 500
going forward I dont see the flyers paying anyone more than Richards. Unless that guy is a legit top tier player.

jb** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:29 PM
  #56
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
That playoff run was a horrible indicator of anything... We got three mediocre teams to beat, and then were easily handled by the one good team we played. The only reason it was close was because their goalie didn't play very well himself.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:30 PM
  #57
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
going forward I dont see the flyers paying anyone more than Richards. Unless that guy is a legit top tier player.
Depends on the contract... Richards signed a huge, long-term deal. I can easily see guys making more annually than him on shorter deals.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:30 PM
  #58
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Concern I have is going to be this is Jeff Carters first contract where he can dictate the terms for the most part. The original money I am not as concerned with as the years considering that Briere and Richards are locked up long term. Does Carter want a 7 year deal? If so that is going to make Giroux expendable. If Briere were nto part of the deal with his contract I would say he could be an option to go, but after his playoffs and his performance with Leino and Hartnell I would be hesitant to mess with that.

I am also skeptical that Zherdev is going to be here long term, but again that will be some free space if he goes. The biggest question for me is the immediate transition to the longterm....does moving Carter make this team better right now by filling a spot at wing as well as freeing up necessary cap space to resing those above players and improve with players/prospects/picks in return? I look to the playoff success for my answer....this team won despite not having Carter.
Carter on a 7-year deal does not make Giroux expendable in any way.

If things went our way in the offseason for a change, we would have something like this:

xxxxxxxxxx - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - Leino (2.00)
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - Carter (5.75) - xxxxxxxxxx

Let Zherdev go and fill in the holes with Nodl, Powe, Maroon, or whoever.

That's best case scenario. I don't see it happening.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:31 PM
  #59
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Giroux is fine on RW.
But he is better at center with the puck creating chances for others.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:33 PM
  #60
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Giroux was brutal in the second half of last year prior to having the excellent playoff run. They cannot commit a big contract at the expense of someone like Carter in Giroux right now.

That's without getting into the fact that Briere is getting up there... and he will increasingly become an injury problem (already has manifested some) and overall liability as that contract progresses.
Carter gets 3pts in one game and disappeards for a week. Briere has been the best forward each and every night and would not be surprised if he is not leading this team in goals at the end of the season.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:34 PM
  #61
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But he is better at center with the puck creating chances for others.
EVERY good offensive player "looks" better offensively at center... cuz they get the puck more. Of course, as noted, everyone argues that last year was some travesty for Briere on the wing with Carter, but when you actually look at it he posted EXACTLY what he's posted throughout his career at ES.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:38 PM
  #62
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Well, ready as clockwork, after the funk the Carter trade rumors have started up, e.g. this from Sports Illustrated.

I have to admit, I'm not really opposed to this idea. The Flyers have definitely problems getting their lines in order, and trading Carter for an actual wing could be good, and it could potentially free up cap space and prevent trouble trying to resign Carter.

However, Carter is also a high-quality player with a lot of potential, even if he didn't necessarily live up to it as of late. There is also probably not many wingers of similar potential on the market. That winger would have a demanding salary as well though. It could be a very risky trade if made.

I could see a trade for a decent winger in the 2-3 million dollar range alongside a 1st round pick. The lack of salary would also help a lot in re-signing players like Giroux and Leino.


And yes, I would have traded Carter before Gagne in the offseason, but don't make this into another "Let's flame Holmgren" thread. It's not like Gagne has done anything for the Bolts so far except amass a -8 rating in 6 games and get on IR.
Sorry the 'rumours' aren't 'heating up'. This is a rehash of Carchidi's fabricated column.

The Flyers aren't trading Carter.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:40 PM
  #63
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Carter gets 3pts in one game and disappeards for a week. Briere has been the best forward each and every night and would not be surprised if he is not leading this team in goals at the end of the season.
95% of the league is streaky... even the good scorers. That's why only a few guys can post really high point totals. This criticism of Carter for being streaky is pure ignorance. If he wasn't streaky, he'd be posting 50+ goal campaigns every year... how many guys are doing that?

Briere has never scored more than 32 goals in a regular season... so I would bet against you on that front. He's also on pace to take 355 shots, and his current career high is 234. He's feeling it right now, but he'll get out of that and into dishing it... as his 6/2 goal/assist ratio is out of whack for him right now. He's always been a more assists than goals player.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 02:56 PM
  #64
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That kind of amazed me about the article as well.

Carter is our only legitimate size down the middle regardless of whether Giroux, Briere, and Richards can all be centers.

Carter is our second best faceoff man besides Betts, even though Giroux at times doesn't appear too bad.

Carter is our second best defensive forward in the top 9 besides Richards, unless you really consider Powe top 9 or even consider Powe better.

Carter is the best pure goal-scorer on our team.

He's a streaky scorer, and since the Flyers' fanbase has a particular reaction to overreact to every little detail that recently occurred, there will be periods when everyone wants to trade him and there will be periods when everyone loves him.


The real question is, since if he gets traded it will most likely be after the postseason, what do you value more:

Giroux + Zherdev + Leino + return for Carter (assuming we can retain Zherdev and Leino for the amount that Carter would sign for)

or

Giroux + Carter
i value this more. And i think you do a good job of bringing the real issue to light, which is what do we value more. The only reason i'd consider trading carter is if it meant we could keep leino and Zherdev (who so far this season have looked great to me). But i'd still prefer alternatives, ways to keep them all...like moving timonen or hartnell.

tuckrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:18 PM
  #65
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
EVERY good offensive player "looks" better offensively at center... cuz they get the puck more. Of course, as noted, everyone argues that last year was some travesty for Briere on the wing with Carter, but when you actually look at it he posted EXACTLY what he's posted throughout his career at ES.
Could you agree that Briere and Carter play different styles of game and thus rely on different skillsets to provide a positive result?

For example, Briere needs to keep his defensive liability by having a line that can gain the offensive zone and maintain possession, thus forcing the defense to play in their own zone. Briere is more of an East-West type guy. He is not terrible in his own zone, but certainly not very good, but being able to maintain that offensive zone time and scoring more than the line he is playing against kind of makes up for that.

Now Carter is a different animal, he is completely North-South, he needs to be going 100 miles an hour because his strngth is his skating and not his puckhandling. His goal is to gain the line and shoot hard and hopefully on net. He does not rely, nor is it his strength, on the cycle or down low play. The problem is because he is quick to pull the trigger and not establish the cycle it becomes a more transition game, less able to set up and wear down the defense.

Either way can be successful but Carter NEEDS to be strong defensively because his game dictates it. Whereas when Briere is having strong games he is keeping possession of the puck and making line changes when the puck is cleared or after a goal. The Leino-Briere-Hartnell line by default makes it more successful because it is a line that plays together as a unit, Carter not so much plus his turnovers and puck possesion leads to poor overall team puck possession. If you keep the puck out of your end and on your stick they do not have the ability to score.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:21 PM
  #66
Cartsiephan*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
95% of the league is streaky... even the good scorers. That's why only a few guys can post really high point totals. This criticism of Carter for being streaky is pure ignorance. If he wasn't streaky, he'd be posting 50+ goal campaigns every year... how many guys are doing that?

Briere has never scored more than 32 goals in a regular season... so I would bet against you on that front. He's also on pace to take 355 shots, and his current career high is 234. He's feeling it right now, but he'll get out of that and into dishing it... as his 6/2 goal/assist ratio is out of whack for him right now. He's always been a more assists than goals player.
I agree on both points, but I would not be surprised to see Briere leading this team in points. He has found his style of game that makes him a good player and on a line that works for him. If Briere finished @33-31-64 I would call that an excellent season and very well could be at the top of the team stats...of course that depends on whether Leino and Hartnell continue to contribute over the season.

Cartsiephan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:24 PM
  #67
agrudez*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i value this more. And i think you do a good job of bringing the real issue to light, which is what do we value more. The only reason i'd consider trading carter is if it meant we could keep leino and Zherdev (who so far this season have looked great to me). But i'd still prefer alternatives, ways to keep them all...like moving timonen or hartnell.
You think Zherdev has looked great?

He has proven to be what everyone said he would be, magical for a few moments and then invisible for long stretches. He certainly had me fooled, I predicted him to lead our team in goals this season.

Leino has looked amazing, though. His puck control and hand quickness is pretty unreal, definately reminds me (in terms of style, NOT skill level) of Forsberg, but I guess that is a pretty common Swedish/Finnish style.

That being said, I don't see how Leino gets more than 2M, based on his history, in his next contract short of a PPG season this year. 2M for 2 years so that he can still get a big fat payday before he ends his prime at the end of the deal, assuming he performs, is my prediction.

agrudez* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:26 PM
  #68
freakydallas13
Registered User
 
freakydallas13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If Carter is traded, it won't be until after the season. During the season, big trades is something Holmgren just doesn't do.
this, we are gearing up for another run at the cup, and carter is more valuable then whatever we would get in return in regards to winning this year.

Now, once it gets to the offseason, Holmgren is going to have to decide which of Giruox, Carter, Leino, and Zherdev he wants to keep, cause god knows we aren't keeping all of them.

freakydallas13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:38 PM
  #69
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,492
vCash: 500
Can anyone explain to me how Claude Giroux makes his linemates better. He is unquestionably a better passer then Jeff Carter, but who are these linemates who have flourished with Claude Giroux? Scott Hartnell scored 30 goals with Jeff Carter, or in spite of if your one of the people that believe he's a line killer. I'm not totally against trading Carter, however I don't really see a reason to trade him. Carter has 40 goal potential, I expect him to hit that mark a few more times in his career but lets say he averages 35 goals a season. That's still really freaking good. To me unless you can absolutely rob a team of assets you don't trade players like Carter or Giroux because you can't afford them, you sacrifice other areas to make sure you keep them.

Cartsiephan, no way in hell would I take Justin Williams and Jon Quick for Carter. Williams is an inconsistent injury prone winger, and Quick while nice isn't really an ideal return for Carter.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:59 PM
  #70
Mr Oysterhead
Registered User
 
Mr Oysterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 1,502
vCash: 500
I'm not against the idea of moving Carter if the return is right. Plenty of rational points going around on both sides of the fence.

I feel it would be a mistake to move Giroux though. He's still developing, can play center or wing well and is starting to shoot more. His playoff run last year and continued solid play this year are really encouraging.

Mr Oysterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 04:08 PM
  #71
46zone
Guttersnipe
 
46zone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Giroux is fine on RW.
This. I think it's pretty evident that Giroux is fine at RW, so why move him back to center at the expense of Carter? As many have said, Carter is our best pure scorer, only center with size, a very good two way player...why move him? He should retained at all costs, as you won't get a fair return for him anyway.

I forget who mentioned it, but Briere is 33 and a liability defensively. He is so far from being "well rounded" it's ridiculous. If he continues his scoring pace, which I doubt, then maybe some team will be willing to take on his contract in a trade, should he waive his NMC.

46zone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 04:25 PM
  #72
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,882
vCash: 500
SI should've focused on a more appropriate story, like how we're apparently shopping Carcillo with 3 parties already interested.

Per Flyersguru:
Quote:
Per a source: #Flyers ARE actively shopping Dan Carcillo. As of right now, 3 teams have interest, hope to get names soon.
Don't know who he is or how credible he is, but it's more reasonable than a Carter trade at this point.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 04:29 PM
  #73
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Lets get a 2nd!

In all seriousness... and not being a huge fan of Carcillo... trading Carcillo after signing Shelley for 3 *ing years will not sit well with me.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 04:36 PM
  #74
46zone
Guttersnipe
 
46zone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I have used this before but just for sh8ts and giggles...would you trade Carter for Quick, Williams, and a 4th rd pick?
**** no. Given Williams's recent injury history I want no parts of him, especially if he's part of a package for Carter. Terrible trade scenario.

46zone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 04:41 PM
  #75
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets get a 2nd!

In all seriousness... and not being a huge fan of Carcillo... trading Carcillo after signing Shelley for 3 *ing years will not sit well with me.
...Not to mention that we traded Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo on top of all that.

If we trade Carbomb, short of getting a package like Upshall+2nd in return, I'm going to rage. This team is just so maddening sometimes.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.