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Old
10-27-2010, 08:01 PM
  #101
Beef Invictus
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im curious, what defines a 40 goal scorer? how often do you have to do it? Webster's doesnt have anything.

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10-27-2010, 08:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
im curious, what defines a 40 goal scorer? how often do you have to do it? Webster's doesnt have anything.
Plenty of ways you can go about it so it's a personal thing. Which is why this is a retarded discussion.

Carter has reached 45+ goals in recent years and has been our best or one of our best goal-scorers for a little while now. He was on pace for 40 last year despite the team having an atrocious year and missing time with injury.

I don't care what you want to argue, it's perfectly acceptable to call Carter a 40 goal guy at this point. I can see why someone would argue otherwise, but it's a stupid thing to argue about at this point.

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10-27-2010, 08:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
im curious, what defines a 40 goal scorer? how often do you have to do it? Webster's doesnt have anything.
It's alright, Carter's not a 40-goal scorer. He's just a 30+ goal scoring forward who averages roughly 40 goals per every 82 games.

Basically, the argument is pointless.

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10-27-2010, 08:07 PM
  #104
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im curious, what defines a 40 goal scorer? how often do you have to do it? Webster's doesnt have anything.
Nice, maybe the term should be a former 40 goal scorer? Or potential 40 goal scorer. i am sorry i stand corrected. Since his prime began, Carter has averaged 0.49 GPG which translates to 40 goals per 82 game season. That is a fact per Cliff. Guess he is a 40 goal socrer after all.

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10-27-2010, 08:08 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think the problem here is inherently different despite what these people trying to pointlessly argue with me are saying.

The question is more is:

Cap Space to Sign Players + Carter's Return

worth more than Carter himself?


That's the debate. I don't think anyone's denying Carter's skill, talent, or importance to this team.
that's a good point and I agree. I think also something that leads to people's concerns over Carter and his eventual raise in pay is that he doesn't mesh well with his line mates. For a franchise first line type of player that he's inevitably about to be payed as, I don't see a #1 LW and a #1 RW, on this team, that can be rolled out next to him on a nightly basis and have them dominate the opposing team. Frankly the only line that spends any amount of consistent time in the offensive zone is the BLT line. Yes we don't run a typical 1-2-3 Line system, but to maximize the return on your dollar I think we need to get Carter gelling with 2 players on this team that can be counted on every night. Those potential players may not be afforded however with his coming raise either.

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10-27-2010, 08:15 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
im curious, what defines a 40 goal scorer? how often do you have to do it? Webster's doesnt have anything.
I define a 40 goal scorer as someone who actually scored 40 goals.

Gretzky's a good example for me...

Gretzky was a 90 goal scorer, in that he scored 90 goals. He only did it once, so he wasn't a perennial 90 goal scorer.

He scored at least 70 for four years in a row... he was a perennial 70 goal scorer.

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10-27-2010, 08:23 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I define a 40 goal scorer as someone who actually scored 40 goals.

Gretzky's a good example for me...

Gretzky was a 90 goal scorer, in that he scored 90 goals. He only did it once, so he wasn't a perennial 90 goal scorer.

He scored at least 70 for four years in a row... he was a perennial 70 goal scorer.
That's not the same though. It doesn't matter what Gretzky scored one, it's what he paced.

During his prime (and by prime, I'll just call his years pacing/scoring 130+ in a row his prime; aka 79-80 through 91-92) he scored 718 goals in 925 games for 0.78 GPG or 64~ per season. I consider Gretzky a 60-65 goal-scorer.

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10-27-2010, 08:23 PM
  #108
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this is all such a hazy subject, there really isnt any point jumping all over each other for it. you'd be better off discussing tangible things, like ,

"does crosby dive:

1) lots
2) whole lots"

or if you're a toronto fan,

"when will we be trading kaberle for carter?"

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10-27-2010, 08:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's not the same though. It doesn't matter what Gretzky scored one, it's what he paced.

During his prime (and by prime, I'll just call his years pacing/scoring 130+ in a row his prime; aka 79-80 through 91-92) he scored 718 goals in 925 games for 0.78 GPG or 64~ per season. I consider Gretzky a 60-65 goal-scorer.
I completely disagree with you. It only matters what he accomplished.

This is why there are so many definitions for a '40 goal scorer'; it's a pretty subjective argument that essentially comes down to semantics.

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10-27-2010, 08:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's not the same though. It doesn't matter what Gretzky scored one, it's what he paced.

During his prime (and by prime, I'll just call his years pacing/scoring 130+ in a row his prime; aka 79-80 through 91-92) he scored 718 goals in 925 games for 0.78 GPG or 64~ per season. I consider Gretzky a 60-65 goal-scorer.
Priceless. Since what is what someone paced at compared to what they actually did more relevant?

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10-27-2010, 08:35 PM
  #111
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Priceless. Since what is what someone paced at compared to what they actually did more relevant?
cheechoo once scored 56 in a year. is he a 56 goal scorer? no. career averages do matter. you can't just use everyone's best year and say that is the type of player they were consistently.

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10-27-2010, 08:38 PM
  #112
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if i did the math right, gretzky was a 60 goal scorer over the course of his career. good lord.

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10-27-2010, 08:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by PhillyCurt12 View Post
cheechoo once scored 56 in a year. is he a 56 goal scorer? no. career averages do matter. you can't just use everyone's best year and say that is the type of player they were consistently.
A one-off shouldn't be used to describe how a player performed over their career.

If you compiled a list of all the players in NHL history who scored 50 goals in a season, Cheechoo would be on it. That makes him a 50 goal scorer.

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10-27-2010, 08:41 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
A one-off shouldn't be used to describe how a player performed over their career.

If you compiled a list of all the players in NHL history who scored 50 goals in a season, Cheechoo would be on it. That makes him a 50 goal scorer.
i should have included the word "perennial" in there.

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10-27-2010, 08:43 PM
  #115
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Jeff Carter is a 40 goal scorer like Ryan Howard is a 58 home run guy Not to mention the fact that he's a ghost in the playoffs, both are really. Still good, but will never live up to the hype or the contract(carter will probably get something crazy from homer). It's like trying to buy a good american car, you want to like it, it's home grown, and it works really well for a while, then it's starts having problems and it makes you sad for what it should be.

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10-27-2010, 08:45 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by PhillyCurt12 View Post
i should have included the word "perennial" in there.
I wouldn't call Carter a perennial 40 goal scorer until he hits a couple in a row. If he never does, I'll still call him a 40 goal scorer.

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10-27-2010, 10:14 PM
  #117
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haha, check out that guys' post history. that one really brings a lot to the table.

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10-27-2010, 10:17 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
haha, check out that guys' post history. that one really brings a lot to the table.


Good catch. Best post history ever.

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10-27-2010, 10:34 PM
  #119
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Thanks a lot, Mods. I won't be able to count how many "Incorrect" posts on my own!

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10-28-2010, 12:17 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's not the same though. It doesn't matter what Gretzky scored one, it's what he paced.

During his prime (and by prime, I'll just call his years pacing/scoring 130+ in a row his prime; aka 79-80 through 91-92) he scored 718 goals in 925 games for 0.78 GPG or 64~ per season. I consider Gretzky a 60-65 goal-scorer.
It would be great if we had an English language word(s) that works well in this situation. Oh, we do.

Jeff Carter is a 40-goal scorer.

Jeff Carter is not a perennial/repeat/whatever 40-goal scorer (yet).

If you hit 50 HR, you're a 50 HR hitter in MLB.... you score 40 in the NHL, you're a 40-goal scorer. Hello, Jason Blake.

What you've accomplished is not necessarily predictive of what you will accomplish in the future and/or should be expected to accomplish... which is what you're attempting to quantify. I'm a college graduate, but I don't graduate from college every year.

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10-28-2010, 12:19 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Jeff Carter is a 40 goal scorer like Ryan Howard is a 58 home run guy Not to mention the fact that he's a ghost in the playoffs, both are really. Still good, but will never live up to the hype or the contract(carter will probably get something crazy from homer). It's like trying to buy a good american car, you want to like it, it's home grown, and it works really well for a while, then it's starts having problems and it makes you sad for what it should be.
Well, we'll ignore the whole Carter discussion...

But calling Ryan Howard a playoff ghost is ridiculous...

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10-28-2010, 07:46 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I wouldn't call Carter a perennial 40 goal scorer until he hits a couple in a row. If he never does, I'll still call him a 40 goal scorer.
this is the point i was originally trying to get at, but then i go botch the english language...

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10-28-2010, 07:55 AM
  #123
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TO TOR :
Jeff Carter (great center)
Garrett Klotz (bad-decent prospect)

TO PHI :
Mikhail Grabovski (decent center)
Fredrik Sjostrom (fast skater, great PK)
Juraj Mikus (good dman prospect)
3rd Round Pick (2011)
5th Round Pick (2011)

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10-28-2010, 07:57 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
TO TOR :
Jeff Carter (great center)
Garrett Klotz (bad-decent prospect)

TO PHI :
Mikhail Grabovski (decent center)
Fredrik Sjostrom (fast skater, great PK)
Juraj Mikus (good dman prospect)
3rd Round Pick (2011)
5th Round Pick (2011)
Not sure if serious...

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10-28-2010, 07:58 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
TO TOR :
Jeff Carter (great center)
Garrett Klotz (bad-decent prospect)

TO PHI :
Mikhail Grabovski (decent center)
Fredrik Sjostrom (fast skater, great PK)
Juraj Mikus (good dman prospect)
3rd Round Pick (2011)
5th Round Pick (2011)
that is a terrible proposal. beyond terrible

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