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Old
10-27-2010, 07:01 PM
  #26
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
How so? A team will then have him locked up. Now if it is a clear overpayment or 7 year type deal, then yes it may.
He's an RFA. RFA's have practically no leverage. As long as a team has the cap space for the money that he deserves and will likely get, then there's no reason why that team can't lock him up.

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10-27-2010, 07:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
He's an RFA. RFA's have practically no leverage. As long as a team has the cap space for the money that he deserves and will likely get, then there's no reason why that team can't lock him up.
So how does a signed Carter make him harder to trade?

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10-27-2010, 07:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Please god only be $5.5M at MOST. Please no NMC... I can deal with NTC, but not really the NMC.
Why? It's not like we're going to need to waive him any time soon, the guy's only 25.

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10-27-2010, 07:13 PM
  #29
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If Carter gets above $6 million I'll have to order some razor blades and prep my wrists and throat.

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10-27-2010, 07:15 PM
  #30
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This contract is going to suck. I can't wait for Carter to consistently not live up to it.

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10-27-2010, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Please god only be $5.5M at MOST. Please no NMC... I can deal with NTC, but not really the NMC.
The difference between a NMC and a NTC clause is that, under a NMC, he can't be waived. Why is that a deal breaker for you?

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10-27-2010, 07:18 PM
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The difference between a NMC and a NTC clause is that, under a NMC, he can't be waived. Why is that a deal breaker for you?
Less limitations.

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10-27-2010, 07:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
This contract is going to suck. I can't wait for Carter to consistently not live up to it.
No matter what Jeff Carter does, folks who have already written him off will never have their expectations met. Because they don't want them met.

(Feel free to quote and substitute "Matt Carle," "Danny Briere," "Michael Leighton," or any other scapegoat for "Jeff Carter" to the above sentence as needed.)

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10-27-2010, 07:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
How so? A team will then have him locked up. Now if it is a clear overpayment or 7 year type deal, then yes it may.
Because that's not how teams do business. They'd rather sign them themselves.

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10-27-2010, 07:26 PM
  #35
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No matter what Jeff Carter does, folks who have already written him off will never have their expectations met. Because they don't want them met.
That's really not true at all. If Carter proves to be a consistent 40/40 guy over the life of the contract, I'm sure people will give him his due. I'll be one of them. All I'm saying is I'm going to wait for him to fulfill that star player potential before I start singing his praises.

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10-27-2010, 07:31 PM
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Because that's not how teams do business. They'd rather sign them themselves.
Teams do business that way all the time. While they want to sign them themselves it doesnt hurt their value in a trade unless a dumb contract. Carter signed has more value than trading Carter in the summer when he can sign a 1 year deal then walk. As i said if it is a silly contract then probably not.

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10-27-2010, 07:36 PM
  #37
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It's homer, so its going to be a silly contract. He's going to do something stupid like 7mil a year. Then trade giroux to tampa for a 4th round pic next year. Luckily I should be starting a family by that time and have things to do while not watching the flyers.

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10-27-2010, 07:39 PM
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It's homer, so its going to be a silly contract. He's going to do something stupid like 7mil a year. Then trade giroux to tampa for a 4th round pic next year. Luckily I should be starting a family by that time and have things to do while not watching the flyers.
You poor soul

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10-27-2010, 07:39 PM
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He'd be a fool to ask for anything substantially less than other young, 40 goal scorers have gotten. And that list isn't long and is pretty damn exclusive.

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10-27-2010, 07:43 PM
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He'd be a fool to ask for anything substantially less than other young, 40 goal scorers have gotten. And that list isn't long and is pretty damn exclusive.
Holmgren will use the argument that Stamkos makes less than a million (excluding bonuses) and potted more than Carter last year.

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10-27-2010, 07:49 PM
  #41
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You poor soul
I don't require much sleep and twins run in my fiance's family.

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Old
10-27-2010, 07:51 PM
  #42
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If Carter gets above $6 million I'll have to order some razor blades and prep my wrists and throat.
nice.....

best belly laugh I've had all day.....

but I hope they sign him

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10-27-2010, 08:07 PM
  #43
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List of guys under 26 who have potted at least 100 goals the last 3 seasons (I might have missed a couple).

Ovechkin 171
Parise 115
Nash 111
Malkin 110
Carter 108
Crosby 108
Staal 107
Vanek 104
Semin 100

Pretty much every player on that list (outside of Vanek who is iffy in the rest of his game and doesn't play a premium position) is about a 7 mill per year player at least, hell, I think even Staal is around 8.

So I mean, people can kick and scream all they want about Carter, but the facts are that since he had his breakthrough year in 07/08, he's averaged 36 goals per year along with very good defensive play and is an underrated passer (again, more ES assists than anyone on the team in 08-09 I believe).

He's 25 years-old and entering his prime, I honestly do not get why people have such a huge issue with him.

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10-27-2010, 08:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
List of guys under 26 who have potted at least 100 goals the last 3 seasons (I might have missed a couple).

Ovechkin 171
Parise 115
Nash 111
Malkin 110
Carter 108
Crosby 108
Staal 107
Vanek 104
Semin 100

Pretty much every player on that list (outside of Vanek who is iffy in the rest of his game and doesn't play a premium position) is about a 7 mill per year player at least, hell, I think even Staal is around 8.

So I mean, people can kick and scream all they want about Carter, but the facts are that since he had his breakthrough year in 07/08, he's averaged 36 goals per year along with very good defensive play and is an underrated passer (again, more ES assists than anyone on the team in 08-09 I believe).

He's 25 years-old and entering his prime, I honestly do not get why people have such a huge issue with him.
Other than Vanek, and maybe Semin, Carter is far and away the worst player on that list.

Also, if you watch Carter you know he's not an underrated passer. Stats are good for verifying what you're seeing with your eyes, but when the visual and the stats don't match, there's something wrong.

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10-27-2010, 08:25 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Other than Vanek, and maybe Semin, Carter is far and away the worst player on that list.

Also, if you watch Carter you know he's not an underrated passer. Stats are good for verifying what you're seeing with your eyes, but when the visual and the stats don't match, there's something wrong.
Based on what?

I mean, it's not like Carter has had all-world linemates.

07/08: Upshall/Knuble, not bad, but not great.
08/09: Hartnell/Lupul, again, not bad, but neither one is a first liner.
09/10: Hartnell's corpse/Briere, Briere had his best ES season with us, Hartnell sucked, team sucked, still would have had 35 if not for getting hurt and was still top-10 in goals.

And considering most people on here seem to think that Hatcher and Shelley are both better passers than Carter, I'd say he's underrated.

It was interesting how everyone was blowing Giroux on the Powe goal and Giroux made a great play, but Carter made the phenomenal pass to set up the 2 on 1.

EDIT: I'd say Carter is better than Staal and then you're saying that he's not as good as Crosby/Nash/Malkin/Ovechkin/Parise.

Whoop de ****ing do, you probably have 5 of the league's best 7 goalscorers there and probably 5 of the 10 best forwards period.

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10-27-2010, 08:29 PM
  #46
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Ew... You pretty much nix any chance to sign Giroux





I dont see how signing Carter a mill and a half more then Richards as a good thing... Plus, personally, I'd take Giroux and Leino over Carter any day of the week. Carter's "size and faceoff" ability isnt worth an extra 1-2 mil.

Heres how I see it.

Next season, the free agents are:

Carter
Giroux
Leino
Zherdev
Carcillo
Boucher
O'Donnell
Powe
Nodl

We save just about 13.4 mil of cap space.

That leaves:

JVR-Richards-xxx
Hartnell-Briere-xxx
xxx-xxx-xxx
Shelly-Betts-xxx
xxxx

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Bartulis
Walker

Bobrovsky
Leighton


We have around 47 mil, including Lappy, 45/46 mil without Lappy. Say the cap goes up to 60 mil, we will have about 15 mil to sign a **** ton of players. You throw 7 mil at Carter, you have about 8 mil to sign 6 positions. You pretty much say goodbye to Giroux and Leino and will most likely just throw in scrubs in the other positions. Im 100% not comfortable with Carter being our highest paid player on the team. Right now I am on the fence with Carter, but if he gets 6.5-7 mil, I will not be a fan of his, and Ill be pretty pissed if we lose Giroux because he wants that much. He wants that much, I say bye bye and wait for the price to go down, if not, Ill be willing to take the two firsts or so for him.
It's pointless to go through this exercise. A cap trade like Gagne's will happen before they lose Carter or Giroux. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kimmo gone this offseason. Or if the Flyers get lucky, someone will take Briere off their hands.

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Old
10-27-2010, 08:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Teams do business that way all the time. While they want to sign them themselves it doesnt hurt their value in a trade unless a dumb contract. Carter signed has more value than trading Carter in the summer when he can sign a 1 year deal then walk. As i said if it is a silly contract then probably not.
Please provide proof that this actually goes on. Show me a list of players that sign long-term contract and then are immediately traded. Don't include Dan Boyle, that's an easy one.

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10-27-2010, 08:39 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
It's pointless to go through this exercise. A cap trade like Gagne's will happen before they lose Carter or Giroux. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kimmo gone this offseason. Or if the Flyers get lucky, someone will take Briere off their hands.
IF the strange thing that happens for Hartnell/Briere/Leino line keeps happening, I think you make Richie our 3rd line C.

Love Richie, but let's face it, his value is much more geared to defense, PP, and PK. He's a good ES offensive player, not a great one.

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Carter-Giroux
xxx-Richards-xxx
Carcillo-Betts-Powe/Nodl/whoever

Plus there's obviously the assumption we get rid of Leighton/Carle (there's 5 mill).

For me, the "xxx" guys next to Richards are 1-1.75 million guys who are decent offensively, but primarily defensive stalwarts.

Just trawling around, but something along the lines of

Yip-Richards-Grier would be big, physical, forecheck-savvy, and ****ing hard as hell to score on. Not saying we should get specifically those guys, but that type of guy.

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10-27-2010, 08:41 PM
  #49
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I'm hoping he gets the same amount of money Richards makes on a shorter term. I'm sorry but besides his 46 goal season, nothing shows me he's worth more than Richards. 5-7 years at 5.95
Giroux gets a 2-3 year deal at 2-4 million depending on this season.
And as another poster stated above, I wouldn't be the least surprised to see Kimmo moved at the end of this season

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10-27-2010, 08:44 PM
  #50
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Based on what?

I mean, it's not like Carter has had all-world linemates.

07/08: Upshall/Knuble, not bad, but not great.
08/09: Hartnell/Lupul, again, not bad, but neither one is a first liner.
09/10: Hartnell's corpse/Briere, Briere had his best ES season with us, Hartnell sucked, team sucked, still would have had 35 if not for getting hurt and was still top-10 in goals.

And considering most people on here seem to think that Hatcher and Shelley are both better passers than Carter, I'd say he's underrated.

It was interesting how everyone was blowing Giroux on the Powe goal and Giroux made a great play, but Carter made the phenomenal pass to set up the 2 on 1.

EDIT: I'd say Carter is better than Staal and then you're saying that he's not as good as Crosby/Nash/Malkin/Ovechkin/Parise.

Whoop de ****ing do, you probably have 5 of the league's best 7 goalscorers there and probably 5 of the 10 best forwards period.
Other than Ovie and Semin who on that list has had better linemates than Carter? Nobody.

If people think Carter's passing ability is on Hatcher and Shelley's level you shouldn't bother reading their posts.

I wouldn't call a chip to the neutral zone a phenomenal pass.

Say you were given the choice of Staal or Carter to start a team with, who would you pick? I'm definitely going with Staal.

You hit the nail on the head, top goalscorers, but that's not the only part of hockey. Everyone you mentioned on that list - other than Vanek and Semin - are better all-around players than Carter.

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