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Carter & Flyers making progress on extension

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:00 PM
  #51
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
He's 25 years-old and entering his prime, I honestly do not get why people have such a huge issue with him.
I genuinely feel it has a lot to do with his game not really fitting the city's perception of itself. They have a hard time simple appreciating an extremely talented player.

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10-27-2010, 10:01 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
Other than Ovie and Semin who on that list has had better linemates than Carter? Nobody.

If people think Carter's passing ability is on Hatcher and Shelley's level you shouldn't bother reading their posts.

I wouldn't call a chip to the neutral zone a phenomenal pass.

Say you were given the choice of Staal or Carter to start a team with, who would you pick? I'm definitely going with Staal.

You hit the nail on the head, top goalscorers, but that's not the only part of hockey. Everyone you mentioned on that list - other than Vanek and Semin - are better all-around players than Carter.
Er, Zajac is far better than anyone Carter has ever played with.

And again, you are talking about Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin who are the 3 best forwards in hockey (if Malkin gets off the snide), Nash who would be a 50 goal guy on a good team, and Parise who's a top-10 forward, but does not play a premier position.

Also, if you're talking about Cs over 100 goals, it's Crosby, Staal, Carter seeing as Malkin is going to wing now.

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:12 PM
  #53
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So then, given the double-barrel Carter-fest, what would be a "good" contract for Carter? I'd say 3 years @ an average of $5.75 mil per. In other words, I'm not all warm about locking Carter up long-term. 3 years gives flexibility.

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:12 PM
  #54
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Er, Zajac is far better than anyone Carter has ever played with.

And again, you are talking about Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin who are the 3 best forwards in hockey (if Malkin gets off the snide), Nash who would be a 50 goal guy on a good team, and Parise who's a top-10 forward, but does not play a premier position.

Also, if you're talking about Cs over 100 goals, it's Crosby, Staal, Carter seeing as Malkin is going to wing now.
Zajac's career high in points is 67 and career high in goals is 25. He might be better then anyone Carter has ever played with, but only slightly. At the very least not "far better".

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10-27-2010, 10:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Zajac's career high in points is 67 and career high in goals is 25. He might be better then anyone Carter has ever played with, but only slightly. At the very least not "far better".
If you want to talk about all-around players though, Zajac is pretty much the definition of it, outstanding defensive player.

I mean, I think Parise is better than Carter, but I don't think he's far and away better when you consider he has a guy like Zajac centering him.

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:17 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
So then, given the double-barrel Carter-fest, what would be a "good" contract for Carter? I'd say 3 years @ an average of $5.75 mil per. In other words, I'm not all warm about locking Carter up long-term. 3 years gives flexibility.
Maybe if you got him and his agent drunk first.

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:22 PM
  #57
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Good doesn't necessarily mean entirely realistic. But it's in the neighbourhood of the number at which I'd hope Holmgren sets his limit.

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
If you want to talk about all-around players though, Zajac is pretty much the definition of it, outstanding defensive player.

I mean, I think Parise is better than Carter, but I don't think he's far and away better when you consider he has a guy like Zajac centering him.
Personally, as a rule-of-thumb, great players should be able to produce up to their talent level regardless of who they play with because, realistically, every roster is going to have it's fair share of competent players.

Only players that I've ever really seen this "crappy linemates" reasoning severely affect are Crosby and Malkin and even then they get to play with each other frequently.

Zajac is probably better defensively then most people Carter has played with, but offensively speaking he's been about just as good as some of the better guys Carter has played with the last few years. Kind of a hard comparison though since Carter's linemates are (usually) wingers because he's a center while Parise's linemates involve a center because he's a wing.

I think Parise is better then Carter simply because his offensive game is more well-rounded and consistent. Parise can be a consistent PPG to 90 point guy while Carter is more of a 40+ G and 75 to 80+ point guy.

Probably helps Parise that he's been far healthier then Carter has and has played for the better organization (our management can't hold a candle to the Devils and we've had John Stevens as our coach for a large part of the last few years).

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Old
10-27-2010, 10:34 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Based on what?

I mean, it's not like Carter has had all-world linemates.

07/08: Upshall/Knuble, not bad, but not great.
08/09: Hartnell/Lupul, again, not bad, but neither one is a first liner.
09/10: Hartnell's corpse/Briere, Briere had his best ES season with us, Hartnell sucked, team sucked, still would have had 35 if not for getting hurt and was still top-10 in goals.

And considering most people on here seem to think that Hatcher and Shelley are both better passers than Carter, I'd say he's underrated.

It was interesting how everyone was blowing Giroux on the Powe goal and Giroux made a great play, but Carter made the phenomenal pass to set up the 2 on 1.

EDIT: I'd say Carter is better than Staal and then you're saying that he's not as good as Crosby/Nash/Malkin/Ovechkin/Parise.

Whoop de ****ing do, you probably have 5 of the league's best 7 goalscorers there and probably 5 of the 10 best forwards period.
Carter's line took over as the #1 line for most of last season, and like you said, the corpse of Hartnell and Briere were his linemates. Hartnell is playing a lot better now than he was then and Briere has really never been anywhere close to how he was in the playoffs until this year. Up till the playoffs almost everyone was complaining about his contract but not anymore. So with both of them having bad years, how did they end up the top line? Yup, Carter.

I hope Lavi keeps the lines together based on last nights play. Everyone is starting to gel.

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Old
10-27-2010, 11:23 PM
  #60
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I'm going to pretend this thread doesn't exist after this post.......


oh...and enjoy the echo chamber....


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 10-28-2010 at 12:41 AM.
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Old
10-27-2010, 11:57 PM
  #61
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I can think of a couple of people here that are going to head to their nearest bridge once they read this article!
I wish they would wait until the water's a bit colder, then, go for it, they won't be missed.

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Old
10-28-2010, 12:55 AM
  #62
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7mil for carter is a lot IMO

isn't that like 1mil shy of ovie? on par with crosby? carter != either of them

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Old
10-28-2010, 12:59 AM
  #63
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I wouldn't want carter getting any more than 6 mil a year, we still need to resign Leino, Roo, and maybe Powe next year too...

God I just can't stop thinking what a wasteful 1.1 mil we have in shelley...

I guess Boucher, Carcillo, and Zherdev if he doesn't pick it up are gonna be gone... O'Donnell I am not too sure about.

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Old
10-28-2010, 01:13 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
I wouldn't want carter getting any more than 6 mil a year, we still need to resign Leino, Roo, and maybe Powe next year too...

God I just can't stop thinking what a wasteful 1.1 mil we have in shelley...

I guess Boucher, Carcillo, and Zherdev if he doesn't pick it up are gonna be gone... O'Donnell I am not too sure about.
This is it for O'Donnell. He's come right out and said, he signed with the Flyers because they give him the best chance to win one more Stanley Cup before he retires. It's all or nothing for the big guy.

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Old
10-28-2010, 01:19 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
This is it for O'Donnell. He's come right out and said, he signed with the Flyers because they give him the best chance to win one more Stanley Cup before he retires. It's all or nothing for the big guy.
Ah ok, I must have missed that.

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Old
10-28-2010, 01:26 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
We have around 47 mil, including Lappy, 45/46 mil without Lappy. Say the cap goes up to 60 mil, we will have about 15 mil to sign a **** ton of players. You throw 7 mil at Carter, you have about 8 mil to sign 6 positions. You pretty much say goodbye to Giroux and Leino and will most likely just throw in scrubs in the other positions. Im 100% not comfortable with Carter being our highest paid player on the team. Right now I am on the fence with Carter, but if he gets 6.5-7 mil, I will not be a fan of his, and Ill be pretty pissed if we lose Giroux because he wants that much. He wants that much, I say bye bye and wait for the price to go down, if not, Ill be willing to take the two firsts or so for him.
we are going to lose some players next offseason. Unless Holmgren backs off his fascination spending 40 percent of the cap on the blueline someone is going to go. This is where having those draft picks in the past and having kids ready to step in come into play. Unfortunately we dont have anyone. Is Maroon ready? probably up for debate. After him its alot of question marks.
As far as Carter goes, he doesnt deserve a raise into 6.5 territory. I wouldnt give him a penny more then 6 personally. Use Zherdev's money to resign Giroux.
Leino might be tough.

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10-28-2010, 02:17 AM
  #67
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I would trade Carle and carter and have plentty of money.

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10-28-2010, 04:37 AM
  #68
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Carter gets 6 million over 7 years. I would be fine with that.

Next offseason we look at offloading kimmo to the nearest bidder, even if we have to compensate. Having 6.33 million back in the hands of the flyers will be crutial to sustaining a competative team.

Kimmo gets a year older, only has 8 million over 2 years left, so it's not like he is untradeable, and i don't believe that he still retains a top defensive position on this team.

6 mil Carter
4 mil Giroux
2 mil Leino
1.5 mil Powe

so thats 5.5 million roughly in space that we need. All covered

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Old
10-28-2010, 06:21 AM
  #69
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I'd still be careful about trading Kimmo, the dropoff from Kimmo to Meszaros/Carle/Coburn is pretty steep IMO, I mean, if we deal Carle and Leighton, we save about 5 mill, we deal Kimmo, we save 6.3, is 1.3 really worth the downgrade?

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10-28-2010, 06:23 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Carter's line took over as the #1 line for most of last season, and like you said, the corpse of Hartnell and Briere were his linemates. Hartnell is playing a lot better now than he was then and Briere has really never been anywhere close to how he was in the playoffs until this year. Up till the playoffs almost everyone was complaining about his contract but not anymore. So with both of them having bad years, how did they end up the top line? Yup, Carter.

I hope Lavi keeps the lines together based on last nights play. Everyone is starting to gel.
Not sure where you are going here? Briere was having by far his best ES season with us on Carter's wing and I'm not sure I'd blame Carter for Hartnell considering that Hartnell was terrible pretty much no matter where he was played.

I'm also not sold on our lines for the simple fact that I don't really trust anyone besides Hartnell-Briere-Leino to generate a ton at ES, but we will see.

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Old
10-28-2010, 06:34 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
I would trade Carle and carter and have plentty of money.
and than what?? What are we going to do with all that money? Ok, we'll resign Giroux.




Lets wait until NJ Devils sign Parise.

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Old
10-28-2010, 06:50 AM
  #72
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I'd rather trade Carle and then bring up Gustafsson. Instead of trading Timonen.

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Old
10-28-2010, 06:55 AM
  #73
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Ya if a D is to go it should be Carle. And Walker

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Old
10-28-2010, 10:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
7mil for carter is a lot IMO

isn't that like 1mil shy of ovie? on par with crosby? carter != either of them
Crosby's cap hit is $8.7m. Ovechkin's is about $9.5m. Carter at $7m isn't anywhere near those guys.

For those people clamoring about not wanting Carter to make more than Richards, Richards makes the following in the upcoming years:

2011-2012 $6,600,000
2012-2013 $8,400,000
2013-2014 $7,600,000
2014-2015 $7,000,000
2015-2016 $6,000,000

The cap hit is a lot lower because the deal is setup to pay him a fair value for each stage of his career. It really doesn't make sense to set Richie's cap hit as the benchmark because his contract is probably not like anyone else's in the league. You'd have to look at anything Carter gets in the same light as the same window of Richards's contract, which is in the $7.1m range in the next five years.

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Old
10-28-2010, 11:25 AM
  #75
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I would move Coburn and Timonen before I give up Matt Carle. Carle has looked very good, especially when paired with Meszaros. Timonen is a logical choice because of his cap hit, granted I still think he has some good years left. The era we are in now is all about value, and Timonen while not necessarily overpaid is a #2 making #1 money.

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