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Old
10-28-2010, 05:51 PM
  #201
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Look around the league... how many forwards do you see unleashing slappers? A handful of guys have very good one-timers, but I STRESS a handful. Everyone has gone to the snap/wrist shot...
This is absolutely true. Look at Gaborik for instance, his snapshot is one of the best around and he and Carter are of similar body types. Gaborik has also never struck me as being one of those guys that undresses other players, but then again, I never saw much of him on the Wild. I just have seen his games against Philly on the Rags.

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10-28-2010, 06:22 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
True he did make Hartnell and Lupul look like studs, Ill give you that. But so far in the season, he has really struggled to make an impact in Zherdev's game or JVR's game.

Im not comparing him to the top centers, im comparing his shooting percentage. ANd toews was had a 17.9 percent shooting percentage the year he had 34 goals. That dwarfs Carter's career high
So? It's about scoring goals... if you want to score a lot of goals, you need to shoot a lot. If you shoot a lot, you're going to miss the net a lot and have a lower shooting % in general. Sure, you can wait for perfect scoring chances and, therefore score less goals with a higher shooting %...

Carter has centered what, like 1.5 games this year? I mean, cem on.

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10-28-2010, 06:55 PM
  #203
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Carter certainly isn't untradeable but why would you trade him now for a lesser player and a pick. How does that help the team win this season?

You should put your best players in their best position. Briere and Carter are this teams best pure goal scorers so put them where they can best succeed. Giroux's game isn't any more effective at center or wing. If anything he has more turnovers at center because he tries to do too much with the puck in the neutral zone.

People talk **** about the guy being lazy but he has improved his game each season. Look at his goal scoring, F/O%, defensive play, and his play along the boards. Didn't have 36 goals last season even though he missed the last couple of weeks and played with two mental cases (Hartnell = divorce, Briere = divorce) most of the season. Eight games in and people are killing him when he has played out of position with different linemates almost every night.

Compare him to Howard for his playoff performance but just like Howard his team won't sniff the playoffs without his regular season performance.

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10-28-2010, 07:43 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
You can't be what you are not...
First, my apologies to the person who listed "not quoting the whole post" in the pet peeves thread.

Jester, I agree with you to a point. We can't just say to Jeff Carter, "Okay, Jeff, we want you to become an elite dangler. Work on that, would you?" However, something I tip my hat to Crosby over is that he seems to identify an area of improvement in the off-season, and he goes out and does it. Hey, maybe Richards and Carter did this, too, and we only hear about Crosby because Crosby would get press if he changed from 1% to 2% milk. And we know that Crosby had more "off-season" to train. (ha ha ha)

That aside, I'd love to hear that one of this team's elite players wanted to add something to his repertoire, and really put in the hours to excel. We've sporadically mentioned Richards and face-offs. How about Carter and one-timers? 25 feeds every practice? When they're earning multiple millions per year, is it too much to ask for them to constantly trying to improve their game?

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10-28-2010, 07:49 PM
  #205
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I cannot believe this thread is up... Every team in the nhl would kill to have drafted a player like Carter. Obviously no player is untradeable, but why? I don't understand the logic.

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10-28-2010, 07:58 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
First, my apologies to the person who listed "not quoting the whole post" in the pet peeves thread.

Jester, I agree with you to a point. We can't just say to Jeff Carter, "Okay, Jeff, we want you to become an elite dangler. Work on that, would you?" However, something I tip my hat to Crosby over is that he seems to identify an area of improvement in the off-season, and he goes out and does it. Hey, maybe Richards and Carter did this, too, and we only hear about Crosby because Crosby would get press if he changed from 1% to 2% milk. And we know that Crosby had more "off-season" to train. (ha ha ha)

That aside, I'd love to hear that one of this team's elite players wanted to add something to his repertoire, and really put in the hours to excel. We've sporadically mentioned Richards and face-offs. How about Carter and one-timers? 25 feeds every practice? When they're earning multiple millions per year, is it too much to ask for them to constantly trying to improve their game?
I think you can work on individual skills and see real improvement (your shot... faceoffs... etc.), but I'm not sure you can overhaul your style like that. I think by the time you get to the NHL, you can either pull of those one-on-one moves at speed and on the fly... or you can't.

I mean, I would be curious if anyone can think of a player that really improved in their one-on-one game like that to any great degree. Guys who already have that in their game improve (I think we'll see it from JVR, as he has some decent one-on-one stuff in his repertoire... just doesn't have the timing of it down yet), but you don't suddenly become what you're not.

The problem with being a good dangler is that for all the skill that goes in to being able to do that stuff... there's a whole lot of art (**** you can't teach/learn) that goes into doing it effectively. I mean, Rob Schremp can dangle the living **** out of the puck... how has that translated?

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10-28-2010, 08:02 PM
  #207
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Reason 1 is that Carter will need a new contract on a cash / cap-strapped team. Reason 2 is that a GM should constantly be looking to improve his team.

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10-28-2010, 08:09 PM
  #208
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I think Carter benifits from the large number of shots he is allowed to take. I dont think he is an elite goal scorer, just a player who was given a large responsbilty to provide alot of shots/offense who hasnt really taken advatage. He takes ALOT of bad angle and easy shots which usually will kill any rush's/potential scoring chances. Im not sure what his real value is.

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10-28-2010, 08:20 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arunnair87 View Post
I cannot believe this thread is up... Every team in the nhl would kill to have drafted a player like Carter. Obviously no player is untradeable, but why? I don't understand the logic.
It's obvious you haven't been a long time poster because you would have seen all the similar threads over the summer. Mention the goalies? Some people will hijack the thread and turn it into a Carter bashfest. Cap problems? Carter's fault. Gagne forced to waive his NMC? Carter's fault, he is taking up too much cap space.

It's absolutely ridiculous but when you look at these threads you'll see 2 or 3 people who are fixated on running him out of town and the rest can talk about it constructively.

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10-28-2010, 08:21 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
I think Carter benifits from the large number of shots he is allowed to take. I dont think he is an elite goal scorer, just a player who was given a large responsbilty to provide alot of shots/offense who hasnt really taken advatage. He takes ALOT of bad angle and easy shots which usually will kill any rush's/potential scoring chances. Im not sure what his real value is.
Yeah, you make some sense here. Not sure what Ovechkin's value is either.

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10-28-2010, 08:42 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, you make some sense here. Not sure what Ovechkin's value is either.
Honestly see little comparision between the two. The point i was trying to make is that Carter maybe doesnt have such a special wrist shot, that he needs to be killing so many scoring chances with his bad angle shots.

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10-28-2010, 08:51 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
Honestly see little comparision between the two. The point i was trying to make is that Carter maybe doesnt have such a special wrist shot, that he needs to be killing so many scoring chances with his bad angle shots.
Putting aside this sentiment that Carter takes away more than he gives (ridiculous), if you're going to center your complaint about Carter shooting too much, then you have to dislike Ovechkin, too. Because he's only marginally more efficient than Carter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lets do a little math... and, it should be understood, Alex Ovechkin is better than Jeff Carter. Significantly.

2009-10:
Alex Ovechkin attempted 520 shots on net (SOG, Missed Shots), and converted 50 goals: or 9.6%

Jeff Carter attempted 460 shots on net, and converted 33 goals: or 7.2%

2008-9:
AO attempted 748 shots on net (yes, this is ABSURD), and converted 56 goals: or 7.4%

Carter attempted 458 shots on net, and converted 46 goals: or 10.0%

2007-8:
AO attempted 645 shots on net, and converted 65 goals: or 10.1%

Carter attempted 367 shots on net, and converted 29 goals: or 7.9%

Over the last three season in total:

AO has attempted 1,913 shots on net, and converted 171 goals: or 8.9%

Jeff Carter has attempted 1,285 shots on net, and converted 108 goals: or 8.4%

So, over the last three years of their respective careers... when Ovechkin releases the puck on net, he is 0.5% more likely to get a goal out of that shot than Jeff Carter... yet Jeff Carter misses the net too much.

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10-28-2010, 09:04 PM
  #213
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AO brings alot more than his shots. What else does Carter bring? Decent faceoff guy, but the Flyers arent even playing him at C.

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10-28-2010, 10:25 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
AO brings alot more than his shots. What else does Carter bring? Decent faceoff guy, but the Flyers arent even playing him at C.
Have you ever seen Ovie on the penalty kill? Neither have I. Carter, on the other hand, regularly plays the kill. When the Caps get a bench penalty and Ovie was on the ice, he's the one who's sent to the box because they don't use him on the kill at all.

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10-28-2010, 10:32 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
I think you can work on individual skills and see real improvement (your shot... faceoffs... etc.), but I'm not sure you can overhaul your style like that. I think by the time you get to the NHL, you can either pull of those one-on-one moves at speed and on the fly... or you can't.

I mean, I would be curious if anyone can think of a player that really improved in their one-on-one game like that to any great degree. Guys who already have that in their game improve (I think we'll see it from JVR, as he has some decent one-on-one stuff in his repertoire... just doesn't have the timing of it down yet), but you don't suddenly become what you're not.

The problem with being a good dangler is that for all the skill that goes in to being able to do that stuff... there's a whole lot of art (**** you can't teach/learn) that goes into doing it effectively. I mean, Rob Schremp can dangle the living **** out of the puck... how has that translated?
That's my point: you are a successful dangler almost by birthright (that's exaggeration, in case anyone was wondering), but something like one-timers is potentially teachable / improvable by repetition and hard work.

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10-28-2010, 11:06 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Have you ever seen Ovie on the penalty kill? Neither have I. Carter, on the other hand, regularly plays the kill. When the Caps get a bench penalty and Ovie was on the ice, he's the one who's sent to the box because they don't use him on the kill at all.
I always figured it was a way of saving his icetime for even strength/PP. I can see why Carter is on the kill as he is one of the better faceoff men the Flyers have. I just dont think that makes him a star, or in AO's league.

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10-28-2010, 11:11 PM
  #217
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Are we really comparing Carter and Ovechkin...

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10-28-2010, 11:18 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by arunnair87 View Post
I cannot believe this thread is up... Every team in the nhl would kill to have drafted a player like Carter. Obviously no player is untradeable, but why? I don't understand the logic.
Bunch of f'ing retards on here, that's why.

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10-29-2010, 12:19 AM
  #219
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I dont understand where carter got this rep for being such a great 2-way player. Further more, I dont see why people dont think giroux is. Giroux can steal the puck from anyone, and is so quick and agil that hes always on the opposing player who has the puck. The pressure he puts on the other team at ES and on the PK forces them to make so many mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BoKs0FlkZI

Perfect example. He is all over Eaton coming out of the zone, forces him to make a backwards pass back in the zone...then does the same to Letang only it leads to a goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEv0M1ohI_4

Another example of what this kid can do. His puck control is insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCddCuh_ISM

Just another example.

Carter has size and is a responsible defensive player, but I wouldnt call him a great 2-way player. If your argument for him being necessary on this team bc of his 2-way play, I feel more than comfortable with Richard and Giroux at center. Giroux has potential to be a selke candidate one day...yeah, I went there.

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10-29-2010, 12:25 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
I think Carter benifits from the large number of shots he is allowed to take. I dont think he is an elite goal scorer, just a player who was given a large responsbilty to provide alot of shots/offense who hasnt really taken advatage. He takes ALOT of bad angle and easy shots which usually will kill any rush's/potential scoring chances. Im not sure what his real value is.
you cant score if you dont shoot the puck.

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10-29-2010, 12:28 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
you cant score if you dont shoot the puck.
But you can be inefficient.

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10-29-2010, 12:37 AM
  #222
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But you can be inefficient.
Carter was .7% in shooting percentage behind Parise last season
Zetterberg had 10 fewer shots and was almost 3 percent less then Carter in shooting % last season. Wonder how many of their fans whine about the misses.
I will throw another name out there Eric Staal. Just .2 ahead of Carter.
Any of their fans whine about him? im gonna guess no.
But hey whatever, we need something to complain about.

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10-29-2010, 04:49 AM
  #223
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How about we all start the Jeff Carter Game tracker thread, much like the MAF on the Pens board.
Evaluate each game he plays instead of using stats that can be mislead by one great shift then disappearing like a ghost for the rest of the 59 minutes of the game (this goes both ways, he could have played great and had no goals/points as well)

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10-29-2010, 04:54 AM
  #224
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10-29-2010, 07:56 AM
  #225
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I'm really on the fence about Carter. The guy's got all the skill, and talent in the world, but at times I feel like he'll never utilize it properly. The guy is one of the worst decision makers I've ever seen from a guy with his skill level. His stats would be double what they are now, if he had half a functioning brain when he has the puck.

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