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Theoretical Goaltender Talk

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:11 PM
  #26
Ladislav Scurko
 
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Originally Posted by lightningfanqc View Post
he's in the East Coast league...so he's the number 5 on the list. We also have this guy in Russia, maybe next year, he could come to NA http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=12247.
Yeah and we got this guy in Sweden http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=7451
Helenius is currently carrying in one of the loosing teams in SEL on his shoulders

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ladislav Scurko View Post
Yeah and we got this guy in Sweden http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=7451
Helenius is currently carrying in one of the loosing teams in SEL on his shoulders
I think Helenius has played his last game for the Lightning.

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Old
10-28-2010, 05:01 PM
  #28
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ellis looked fantastic last night and at the risk of making a serious post here which i dont ever do, why have most of you given up on him?

our style of play is vaguely reminiscent of the days of torterella, and even khabi was benched in that regime for john grahame.

our defense has never been better, but until someone gives hedman some IKEA type instructions on how to play this system, or really NHL hockey at all, and we can get at least one more defensive talent, our goalies are gonna be left out to dry a lot.

smith was horrible last night, that has been well established. but SH goal #2 was all the defenseman's fault. specifically hedman.

honestly, trade deadline acquisition of a mid to top tier d-man (the likes of hamhuis((man i had hoped we could have gotten him this offseason))) and promoting desjardin (whilst sending smith to norfolk or hell the everblades) would put us in a very comfortable position, imo
I don't think it's much of disparaging Ellis, moreso for the fact that we'd like to had a solid #1 and a reliable #2. But you're right, a d-man acquisition would be nice too.

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Old
10-28-2010, 05:09 PM
  #29
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A small sample size as to how Desjardins is playing in Norfolk: http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=1701

Decent stats in only 4 games.

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Old
10-28-2010, 06:34 PM
  #30
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Ellis needs to get a consistent shot at being the starter before anybody here draws conclusions against him. We've also got to have our defense play together and develop some chemistry. This takes time, so we must be patient. If a move has to be made, there's 4 months before the deadline.

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10-28-2010, 07:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Stone Phillips View Post
A small sample size as to how Desjardins is playing in Norfolk: http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=1701

Decent stats in only 4 games.
Those are great Stats and even if he had little left to prove in the AHL , in a perfect world he would spend the whole season down there .

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Old
10-28-2010, 07:53 PM
  #32
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There's a reason that Desjardins would be a good choice to call up, given the situation. Outside of his play.

He knows the Boucher system probably better than anyone on the team right now, having played for him last season.

It also means he's seen the growing pains associated with implementing it, and could not only potentially help explain to his teammates what Boucher wants, but would also know where, and how, he'd be vulnerable, as the goalie. That would also be of value to both Ellis and Smith.

With Vernace put on waivers today, (and him having only having 15 games under Boucher in Hamilton), it might be a good move to call Cedrick up.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-28-2010 at 07:58 PM.
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Old
10-28-2010, 07:56 PM
  #33
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Personally I think we missed on making a deal for T. Thomas. While he is a tad expensive we could have afforded him until our youngsters in Norfolk are truly ready to take over. He has the ability to take over a game and single-handedly win it with a shutout.

Smith is done here but SFY is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Ellis seems to be too inconsistent as well but played great in relief last night.

Our starting defense has yet to play a full game together so that will be a work in progress for the forseeable future. Look for Ohlund to solidify the top four. I'd like to see R. Jones hit the bench and call up Wishart to play with Smaby.

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Old
10-28-2010, 07:58 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
There's a reason that Desjardins would be a good choice to call up, given the situation. Outside of his play.

He knows the Boucher system probably better than anyone on the team right now, having played for him last season.

It also means he's seen the growing pains associated with implementing it, and could not only potentially help explain to his teammates what Boucher wants, but would also know where, and how, he'd be vulnerable, as the goalie.

With Vernace put on waivers today, and only having 15 games under Boucher in Hamilton, it might be a good move.
I'm all for calling up Desjardins. He wasn't going to sign with MTL because he wanted a chance at the show, we brought him in for an insurance option. Well right now looks like it could be a win win for both us and Desjardins. I would like to see that man and Tokarski get a shot if Desjardins cant get it done before we look else where.

People seem to forget this is suppose to be a rebuild year, lets not trade away future core players for a person that will only be here for a year or two at most. This is part of the pains were required to go through, lets just get it done sooner rather than later.

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Old
10-28-2010, 08:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bolt32 View Post
I'm all for calling up Desjardins. He wasn't going to sign with MTL because he wanted a chance at the show, we brought him in for an insurance option. Well right now looks like it could be a win win for both us and Desjardins. I would like to see that man and Tokarski get a shot if Desjardins cant get it done before we look else where.

People seem to forget this is suppose to be a rebuild year, lets not trade away future core players for a person that will only be here for a year or two at most. This is part of the pains were required to go through, lets just get it done sooner rather than later.
Hopefully Tic and Cedric get a cup of tea this season (after the D tightens up).

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Old
10-28-2010, 09:01 PM
  #36
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Should've kept the combo of Niitty/Ellis and let Smith go to begin with. Unfortunately, both goalies have been subject to lapses in defense at times but Smitty's giving up way too many rebounds.

Would make sense that Cedric would be the call up since he played through the pre-season whereas Tokarski or Janus didn't get any ice time.


Last edited by TBLHoser: 10-28-2010 at 09:12 PM.
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Old
10-28-2010, 10:33 PM
  #37
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This may be the first time that I can remember that fans of a team in first place in the conference going into tonight's games are talking about goalie changes.

Imo, this is premature.

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Old
10-28-2010, 11:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by gobolt7 View Post
This may be the first time that I can remember that fans of a team in first place in the conference going into tonight's games are talking about goalie changes.

Imo, this is premature.
While it may be a bit premature. You cant possibly argue that we have won BECAUSE of goaltending. Its pretty obvious we have won in spite of goaltending. Both goalies have GAA over 3.00 and SV% under .900 (by a good amount). Thats pretty horrible.

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Old
10-29-2010, 12:23 AM
  #39
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I'm with GoBolt7 just to play a little devil's advocate...While our goaltending has been mediocre at best, they have done a pretty good job at making the right saves at the right moments (with exception to the game in which no one should mention)...

Smitty is STILL undefeated even after the horrid performance he put on, while his numbers shouldn't justify it still speaks volumes as to how the team performs with him in net...

So chalk it up as a bad night...We grinded out a win, and let Smith move on amicably..

And after last years playoffs I'm not so sure I would even want an elite number 1...Niemi and Leighton are hardly elite goalies...just saying...

Give me a good team and a decent goalie who gets hot at the right moment (Osgood) any day over a stud goalie who chokes (Luongo)

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Old
10-29-2010, 12:30 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
While it may be a bit premature. You cant possibly argue that we have won BECAUSE of goaltending. Its pretty obvious we have won in spite of goaltending. Both goalies have GAA over 3.00 and SV% under .900 (by a good amount). Thats pretty horrible.
Dan Ellis

2.95 GAA .897 save % That's not by a good amount, and I would argue that with the offense this team has, those numbers should equal a lot of wins.

Oh, and Mike Smith is 4-0-0.

Just saying.

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Old
10-29-2010, 12:55 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobolt7 View Post
Dan Ellis

2.95 GAA .897 save % That's not by a good amount, and I would argue that with the offense this team has, those numbers should equal a lot of wins.

Oh, and Mike Smith is 4-0-0.

Just saying.
You're not really going to use wins as an argument, are you Mike?

Edwin Jackson had 14 wins.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:04 AM
  #42
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by gobolt7 View Post
Dan Ellis

2.95 GAA .897 save % That's not by a good amount, and I would argue that with the offense this team has, those numbers should equal a lot of wins.

Oh, and Mike Smith is 4-0-0.

Just saying.
Sorry I forgot Dan Ellis got his numbers to godlike status when he came in in relief the last game.

As for Smiths 4-0-0. A Shooter tutor could be 4-0-0 from those games.

Just saying.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:27 AM
  #43
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Between the two, they're on pace to give up a combined... roughly... 215 with 5 games left to split between them. We'll use an average so far in our wins, 3 goals against (3.3 to be exact), so we'll tack on another 15 to that total. So, around 230 for the season.

This is an improvement from last seasons 253 against, yet 230 would put us between Colorado (17th in GA) and Ottawa (18th in GA). So we're still in the bottom half of the league for goals against, which is never, ever a good recipe. There are the outliers to that stat (Colorado making the playoffs, Pittsburgh giving up 235 and still going deep) but its flirting with disaster hoping every night you can spot a team three and outscore them from there, would you agree?

I do believe Ellis' numbers will come back around to career averages and hes just off to a slow start, but I worry about Smith. We'll also be asking one or both goaltenders to increase workload this year. If Ellis can run about a .905 and hit a hot streak of about seven or eight games, I think it might but us far enough into the clear but i'm not sure. The only thing that comforts me at the moment is that Ellis once went 44 games with Nashville, and that was statistically his best season (.924sv%/2.34GAA).

Is it early to call for someones head? Sure. That wasn't the intention of my post, it was really just to consider options and what we think might happen with our tandem. If Ellis can rebound hard and Smith can hold around .900, I think we can do some damage.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:36 AM
  #44
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If we blank out the horrid loss against the Panthers for a moment, Ellis' numbers are pretty "ok" but even more important: In contrast to Smith he actually makes the save in a critical situation (remember that wicked glove in the last minutes vs the Pens?). Smith looks shaky, flops around and when the team needs to be able to rely on him his play tends to collapse.

Except for the FLA game when the whole freakin' team plain out sucked Ellis already had a few good games (Flyers, Pens; even Preds - none of the goals were his fault). You could even argue that only the Isles game -and of course the one vs the Cats- he didn't look very good. Just a slow starter maybe.

Smitty was benched early two times already this year and already looks like the 09/10 Smith again. Too bad, I was really hoping for him to turn things around and have a bounce back year. He seemed really confident before the season started. But right now Ellis looks way more confident, though that's easy because Smith doesn't look confident at all.

I get that it's a new system for both of the goalies so of course we have to be patient. Hell, we're 9 games into the season. After all isn't that one of Yzerman's key notes for the season? Patience?

Let's ride Ellis' "ok" streak and hope it'll last a while. Let Smith do the backup job and if his game falls apart entirely give Cedrick or Tik a chance and waive Smitty's sorry ass.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:46 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
You're not really going to use wins as an argument, are you Mike?

Edwin Jackson had 14 wins.
well Jackson also had a no-hitter too...

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Old
10-29-2010, 10:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
You're not really going to use wins as an argument, are you Mike?

Edwin Jackson had 14 wins.
Considering the past three years they have had goalies that couldn't get any wins, it is something that is relevant here.

Don't forget, we are nine games into a new defensive system that has seen a lot of hiccups that resulted in 2-1's and breakaways that have ended up in the back of our net. Over time those will be cleaned up once these guys know this thing in their sleep.

Also, both goalies have in fact made key saves at times that have held on to wins. How many of these goals have been "bad" goals? Ellis had one in Philly, and one against Nashville, but other than that they have all been legit.

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Old
10-29-2010, 10:31 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by gobolt7 View Post
Considering the past three years they have had goalies that couldn't get any wins, it is something that is relevant here.

Don't forget, we are nine games into a new defensive system that has seen a lot of hiccups that resulted in 2-1's and breakaways that have ended up in the back of our net. Over time those will be cleaned up once these guys know this thing in their sleep.

Also, both goalies have in fact made key saves at times that have held on to wins. How many of these goals have been "bad" goals? Ellis had one in Philly, and one against Nashville, but other than that they have all been legit.
Smith against Dallas to Burish, the bad rebound against Pitt to Cooke. There are a couple others.

I get what you're saying and I agree... I trust Ellis right now, just not Smith. Hes terribly shaky.

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Old
10-29-2010, 01:45 PM
  #48
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Boucher still seems relaxed:
Quote:
"It's his first outing where it really didn't go his way," Boucher said. "He'll be okay. It happens. I have all the confidence in the world in Smitty. I talked to him, and it's all about the next game."
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-ellis/1130881

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:01 PM
  #49
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Ellis has shown in the past that he is not consistent. He will have the couple of games where he does play well and then just drop off. He had the starting job in Nashville but could not keep it.

I just want someone to step up and take this job. It will make both goaltenders better.

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:36 PM
  #50
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If I was stevie Y, I would be looking to package Smith for Vokoun. With St.Louis age, Gagne is in his last year of his contract and you got some vet dmans you can make a serious push in the playoffs this year with a goalie.

Vokoun has shown he can steal games and florida has Markstrom coming up and their gm wants draft picks. Makes sense. Make a run this season give up a pick and Smith and hopefully resign Vokoun for another 2 years.

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