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Old
10-29-2010, 10:05 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
So the highest scoring player over the past few years is the dog of our team?
Stop playing fantasy hockey, stats mean squat when you do not show up in tough games and float for several games in a row. Watch tonight and tomorrow night and really watch his play.

The Buffalo game you could see him play, you noticed him on the ice making plays even without the puck. Watch him tonight when he matches up against centers who take him out of his game, he disappears against a higher quality of player and tighter checking games.

Joe Thornton and Ollie Jokinen are great stats guys, how many times do they have their names on the Cup. Some players are great talents but lack the heart and fortitude to take their team and game to the next level. Peter Forsberg was classic at this with the Avs. Look at a guy like Claude Lemieux who does not have the talent to put up big numbers during the regular season but move the playoffs and he dominates.

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10-29-2010, 10:29 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stop playing fantasy hockey, stats mean squat when you do not show up in tough games and float for several games in a row. Watch tonight and tomorrow night and really watch his play.

The Buffalo game you could see him play, you noticed him on the ice making plays even without the puck. Watch him tonight when he matches up against centers who take him out of his game, he disappears against a higher quality of player and tighter checking games.
Stats are empirical evidence that make you look foolish... which is why you like to dismiss them.

BTW, Jeff Carter has 14-15-29 in 34 career games against Pittsburgh. Pretty *ing damn good production.

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Joe Thornton and Ollie Jokinen are great stats guys, how many times do they have their names on the Cup.
We've established that Carter (probably?) didn't sleep with your wife. How about Jokinen, you love to bring him up, too.

There are a LOT of extremely good players that do not have their names on the Cup. So you should stop citing that like it's evidence of anything.

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Some players are great talents but lack the heart and fortitude to take their team and game to the next level. Peter Forsberg was classic at this with the Avs. Look at a guy like Claude Lemieux who does not have the talent to put up big numbers during the regular season but move the playoffs and he dominates.
I'm going to blow your mind, get ready.

Claude Lemieux: 0.65 PPG in the regular season, 0.68 PPG in the playoffs. Yep, really stepping it up and DOMINATING!

Peter Forsberg: 1.25 PPG in the regular season, 1.08 PPG in the playoffs.

Over extended samples, players perform pretty much exactly same in the playoffs as they do during the regular season.

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10-29-2010, 10:32 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Are we really comparing Carter and Ovechkin...
As far as shooting the puck? Absolutely. They're quite similar there... they like to shoot a LOT (Ovechkin far more than Carter) from all over the ice. What separates them there is that Ovechkin is far better at getting into areas to take shots... not his success at converting those shots into goals.

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10-29-2010, 10:36 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If they want Carter to have scoring success at wing, they need to put him at LW so that his forehand/wrister is facing the net/open ice and he can skate left-to-right as opposed to right-to-left. By putting him on the wall you're giving him nowhere to go with the ability to shoot the puck, thus nullifying his major skill. He's not a distributor, so having the passing lanes on his forehand (RW) isn't beneficial to him in anyway (whereas it is beneficial to Giroux), and given Carter's style you're essentially putting him in a box. Even as a center, Carter goes to the right boards too often.
I agree, Carter would look better at LW, much like they do with Kovalchuk to allow him to shoot from the center of the ice.


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here is a GREAT deal of irony to you complaining about Carter as an "all around player" while praising Giroux and Briere... Carter is a better "all around" player than either of 'em. He has also outscored each of 'em by a WIDE margin the last couple of years.
Briere will never be known as a very good defensive center, but the obvious choice is he is better offensively at center, it kind of rules out moving him back to wing. It does mean he needs to be with winger who can sustain an offensive zone cycle and make quality line changes, together the LBH line plays good team defense IMO.


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Well, Carter was taking defensive zone draws... ya know, the ones that area really key.

As to the wider point... talk about a complete red herring. Jeff Carter is a really effective center and you're complaining that he isn't as effective elsewhere? I mean, seriously?
Carter is good in the faceoff circle, just pointing out that it may be overrated that Homer needs to keep him because who would take the faceoffs. Once again, statistically Jeff Carter can play, no one questions this, the problem is does he fit?

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As to the question your asking... you should look at my comments above about Carter and RW. His game is not suited to him being along the right wall.

I agree, if Carter could move to the wing, produce, and not complain, it would be a win-win. Problem is he just does not seem to fit on a line and contribute consistently. Phill Kessel is a great scorer, but he is never going to win a Cup, you can book that right now. Jeff Carter is the same mold but he plays a better defense, but even his defense is overrated, many times I have seen him overextend shifts or you watch from the goal cam as Carter is training behind the play as the other team scores due to his poor offensive zone turnovers.

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10-29-2010, 10:40 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
AO brings alot more than his shots. What else does Carter bring? Decent faceoff guy, but the Flyers arent even playing him at C.
AO is an offensive workhorse... he brings pretty much nothing else to the table. Better than Carter? Absolutely... but don't act like Ovechkin is some great multi-dimensional player.

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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
I always figured it was a way of saving his icetime for even strength/PP. I can see why Carter is on the kill as he is one of the better faceoff men the Flyers have. I just dont think that makes him a star, or in AO's league.
Ovechkin isn't on the PK because he doesn't really like playing defense. At all.

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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
I dont understand where carter got this rep for being such a great 2-way player. Further more, I dont see why people dont think giroux is. Giroux can steal the puck from anyone, and is so quick and agil that hes always on the opposing player who has the puck. The pressure he puts on the other team at ES and on the PK forces them to make so many mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BoKs0FlkZI

Perfect example. He is all over Eaton coming out of the zone, forces him to make a backwards pass back in the zone...then does the same to Letang only it leads to a goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEv0M1ohI_4

Another example of what this kid can do. His puck control is insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCddCuh_ISM

Just another example.

Carter has size and is a responsible defensive player, but I wouldnt call him a great 2-way player. If your argument for him being necessary on this team bc of his 2-way play, I feel more than comfortable with Richard and Giroux at center. Giroux has potential to be a selke candidate one day...yeah, I went there.
Ah, anecdotal youtube evidence isn't of much use. Giroux was getting SMOKED last spring (-18 after December) defensively. He's not a good defensive player right now. He competes (which Briere doesn't do), but he gives away a lot of size (which matters defensively) and he doesn't have natural instincts defensively at center (because he didn't grow up playing the position).

Giroux will almost certainly never be a Selke candidate... especially with Richards on this team (neither will Carter). He isn't even remotely close to the guys that belong in that conversation in the league right now. Carter isn't a defensive All-Star by any stretch of the imagination, but he's better at it than Giroux. Neither of whom are even remotely in the same class as Richards, however. Richards' only weakness defensively is that he struggles at times with bigger guys.

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10-29-2010, 10:45 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Briere will never be known as a very good defensive center, but the obvious choice is he is better offensively at center, it kind of rules out moving him back to wing. It does mean he needs to be with winger who can sustain an offensive zone cycle and make quality line changes, together the LBH line plays good team defense IMO.
Why? If Briere had produced on the PP last year he would have had his best year as a Flyer to date, and one of the best seasons of his career in overall production. Briere isn't just "not very good defensively," he's atrocious defensively. Over the course of a season that can nullify a lot of the good he does offensively (in fact, it has over his career) and it's one of the primary reasons he's spent a lot of time on the wing in his career (despite being a good offensive center).

You have one player that struggles to play wing: Carter (especially RW, and it's just plain stupid to put him there if you want him to produce offense at a high level).

You have two players that are fine at wing: Giroux and Briere.

Now, call me silly, but I can create the best possible lineup by putting the guy that is a very good center (and has outscored the other two at that position, for the record) at center, and getting good production from one of the other two at the wing position.

All while getting a better defensive line out of the equation.

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10-29-2010, 10:52 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Stats are empirical evidence that make you look foolish... which is why you like to dismiss them.

BTW, Jeff Carter has 14-15-29 in 34 career games against Pittsburgh. Pretty *ing damn good production.
Stats can be misleading, as far as against Pittsburgh those are some good numbers, let's see how he handles things tonight. Let me be clear, the Flyers need Carter to produce and I want him to do well, but I just think he lacks the heart to be that guy.


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We've established that Carter (probably?) didn't sleep with your wife. How about Jokinen, you love to bring him up, too.

There are a LOT of extremely good players that do not have their names on the Cup. So you should stop citing that like it's evidence of anything.
Some players are made up to be bridesmaids and are content with that, I want the guy who is will do anything to win on my team.

Quote:
I'm going to blow your mind, get ready.

Claude Lemieux: 0.65 PPG in the regular season, 0.68 PPG in the playoffs. Yep, really stepping it up and DOMINATING!

Peter Forsberg: 1.25 PPG in the regular season, 1.08 PPG in the playoffs.

Over extended samples, players perform pretty much exactly same in the playoffs as they do during the regular season.

So I will blow your mind. Claude Lemieux is 9th in all-time playoff goal scorer and has his name on the Cup four times(1986, 1995, 1996, 2000).

Peter Forsberg has his name on the Cup(1996, 2001-although 2001 he was injured and had his spleen removed).

Bottom line, both players showed up in big games when their teams needed them.

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Old
10-29-2010, 10:59 AM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stats can be misleading, as far as against Pittsburgh those are some good numbers, let's see how he handles things tonight. Let me be clear, the Flyers need Carter to produce and I want him to do well, but I just think he lacks the heart to be that guy.
Stats are not misleading. Jeff Carter has played X games and has produced Y points. That is an empirical, completely objective observation of what has happened. You choosing to focus on an individual game (newsflash, guys have bad individual games all the damn time) is ridiculous. If he goes out and has a hat trick are you going to completely revise your opinion of Jeff Carter? Based on what you just said, you'd have to. However, that would be equally ridiculous.

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Some players are made up to be bridesmaids and are content with that, I want the guy who is will do anything to win on my team.
So, Ray Bourque sucked all those years in Boston, huh?

Focusing on an individual not winning a championship in a team sport is the height of silliness.

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So I will blow your mind. Claude Lemieux is 9th in all-time playoff goal scorer and has his name on the Cup four times(1986, 1995, 1996, 2000).

Peter Forsberg has his name on the Cup(1996, 2001-although 2001 he was injured and had his spleen removed).

Bottom line, both players showed up in big games when their teams needed them.
Bottom line, both players performed in the playoffs pretty much dead on with what they did throughout their career (Forsberg actually dropping a bit). You just don't place as much emphasis in some random game in December, so you ignore this rather important factor... and big time hole in the whole "big game" thesis. The simple fact of the matter is that "clutch" doesn't really exist... there aren't "big game" players and "small game" players. They are just hockey players of various skills playing hockey in a different time of year.

Getting your name on the Cup is not validation of a player. A lot of not so great players have their name on the Cup... a lot of GREAT players do not. In evaluating a player, focusing on whether or not they've won a championship is a joke in a team sport.

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10-29-2010, 11:00 AM
  #234
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Does Carter still smoke cigarettes?

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10-29-2010, 11:03 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Why? If Briere had produced on the PP last year he would have had his best year as a Flyer to date, and one of the best seasons of his career in overall production. Briere isn't just "not very good defensively," he's atrocious defensively. Over the course of a season that can nullify a lot of the good he does offensively (in fact, it has over his career) and it's one of the primary reasons he's spent a lot of time on the wing in his career (despite being a good offensive center).
Briere's success in Buffalo during his career season was playing on a line where he was comfortable as a unit playing together, it also resulted in his best +/- stat to date. Game on the line and a defensive zone faceoff I am not looking to have Briere and his line on the ice, but down by one and in the offensive zone I would put him out there every time right now. The big question is can they carry this current success through the season. I am encouraged about them picking up after the summer, so I am confident.

Y
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ou have one player that struggles to play wing: Carter (especially RW, and it's just plain stupid to put him there if you want him to produce offense at a high level).

You have two players that are fine at wing: Giroux and Briere.
I am not arguing that Briere or Giroux would be better suited at wing over Carter, but I am stating that given the choice of how each are playing and where their game would benefit I would prefer Giroux and Briere at center over Carter. If this does not work then get a wing who can play as a natural winger....

Quote:
Now, call me silly, but I can create the best possible lineup by putting the guy that is a very good center (and has outscored the other two at that position, for the record) at center, and getting good production from one of the other two at the wing position.

All while getting a better defensive line out of the equation.
I would agree with you at this point it is the logical choice because Jeff Carter just cannot play any other position and do it well. I know Laviolette gave these lines a whirl for a game or so and it is what I would like to see right now if Giroux is being forced to wing by Carters inability to play anywhere else, your thoughts....:

JvR-Richards or Giroux-Giroux or Richards
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Powe-Carter-Zherdev
Carcillo-Betts-Shelley

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10-29-2010, 11:08 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I am not arguing that Briere or Giroux would be better suited at wing over Carter, but I am stating that given the choice of how each are playing and where their game would benefit I would prefer Giroux and Briere at center over Carter. If this does not work then get a wing who can play as a natural winger....
We have two guys on this roster that can playing wing as a natural winger... Giroux, for example, played RW pretty much his entire time coming up.

We have a center that has posted 108 goals in the last three years.

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10-29-2010, 11:14 AM
  #237
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Stats are not misleading. Jeff Carter has played X games and has produced Y points. That is an empirical, completely objective observation of what has happened. You choosing to focus on an individual game (newsflash, guys have bad individual games all the damn time) is ridiculous. If he goes out and has a hat trick are you going to completely revise your opinion of Jeff Carter? Based on what you just said, you'd have to. However, that would be equally ridiculous.

OK, then how about 41 games, 12 goals, 7 assists, 19pts, and a -11(5ppp's). Those are Jeff Carters career playoff stats.

And this....86 games, 35 goals, 52 assists, 87pts, and a +4(17ppp's).

To me not only does Danny step up in the playoffs but he is also not as much as a defensive liability when it counts.


S
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o, Ray Bourque sucked all those years in Boston, huh?

Focusing on an individual not winning a championship in a team sport is the height of silliness.
Ray Bourque was screwed by Jeremy Jacobs ownership. This is a club who took Ray Bourque to salary arbitration. Ray Bourque, who had done everything ever asked of him. And so he moved on and won in Colorado.


Quote:
Bottom line, both players performed in the playoffs pretty much dead on with what they did throughout their career. You just don't place as much emphasis in some random game in December, so you ignore this rather important factor... and big time hole in the whole "big game" thesis. The simple fact of the matter is that "clutch" doesn't really exist... there aren't "big game" players and "small game" players. They are just hockey players of various skills playing hockey in a different time of year.

Getting your name on the Cup is not validation of a player. A lot of not so great players have their name on the Cup... a lot of GREAT players do not. In evaluating a player, focusing on whether or not they've won a championship is a joke in a team sport.
There are players who raise their game when the game gets tight and tougher, and there are guys who fold. Is having your name on the Stanley Cup the only goal? Nope, but the guys who play the game to win all want their name on the Holy Grail of hockey. Anyone who says they won scoring titles and this award and that...etc...and the Stanley Cup never really mattered were not playing the game to win as a team and is probably why they never won.

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10-29-2010, 11:16 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We have two guys on this roster that can playing wing as a natural winger... Giroux, for example, played RW pretty much his entire time coming up.

We have a center that has posted 108 goals in the last three years.
I am not arguing goals, but arguing who would be best suited as you said for the team game to be at center. We differ in our opinions in this regard.

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10-29-2010, 11:18 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I am not arguing goals, but arguing who would be best suited as you said for the team game to be at center. We differ in our opinions in this regard.
But we don't. You've admitted the following:

1) Carter struggles at wing, whereas he's quite effective at center.

2) Briere and Giroux have both proven quite able wings.

If your concern is really the "team" and not individual players, that should lead to a pretty obvious conclusion. But it doesn't, because you have an irrational dislike for Carter.

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10-29-2010, 11:25 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post


OK, then how about 41 games, 12 goals, 7 assists, 19pts, and a -11(5ppp's). Those are Jeff Carters career playoff stats.

And this....86 games, 35 goals, 52 assists, 87pts, and a +4(17ppp's).
Carter has been in the playoffs 4 times.

Rookie year... they all sucked.

ECF run, in which he played well.

Busted shoulder, and was our most dangerous player for much of the series while getting robbed by MAF.

Played on two broken feet.

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To me not only does Danny step up in the playoffs but he is also not as much as a defensive liability when it counts.
HAHAHAHA... were you not watching the Boston series in particular? I am still not fully recovered from the comedy of watching Briere skating around covering nobody. Briere is a defensive disaster regardless of when you look at him... he was just on a roll offensively (to an epic degree) and it masked his defensive stupidity.

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Ray Bourque was screwed by Jeremy Jacobs ownership. This is a club who took Ray Bourque to salary arbitration. Ray Bourque, who had done everything ever asked of him. And so he moved on and won in Colorado.
Oh, so there are cases where not having your name on the Cup isn't a sign that you should be cast out and branded awful?

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There are players who raise their game when the game gets tight and tougher, and there are guys who fold. Is having your name on the Stanley Cup the only goal? Nope, but the guys who play the game to win all want their name on the Holy Grail of hockey. Anyone who says they won scoring titles and this award and that...etc...and the Stanley Cup never really mattered were not playing the game to win as a team and is probably why they never won.
That's just it... over large samples, that statement proves not to be true. It's developed from the fact that the human brain is *ing terrible at processing large volumes of information, so you give bias to things like hot playoff runs and playoff success... ignoring when a player possibly has a mediocre playoff run later on.

For a GREAT example of this, go check out Derek Jeter, playoff warrior's stats. He had some hot playoffs when he was younger, but has been quite pedestrian since then.

It's called reversion to mean, and pretty much everyone is susceptible to it... both upwards and downwards over time.

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10-29-2010, 11:31 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
But we don't. You've admitted the following:

1) Carter struggles at wing, whereas he's quite effective at center.

2) Briere and Giroux have both proven quite able wings.

If your concern is really the "team" and not individual players, that should lead to a pretty obvious conclusion. But it doesn't, because you have an irrational dislike for Carter.
My conclusion is pretty darm obvious. This team would be better of by trading Carter for a scoring, natural RW to fill that whole in the lineup. If it could come with a high draft pick it owuld be even nicer. As things fit right now Giroux is being forced to RW because Carter is incapable of playing a wing, or even trying at wing.

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10-29-2010, 11:37 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carter has been in the playoffs 4 times.

Rookie year... they all sucked.

ECF run, in which he played well.

Busted shoulder, and was our most dangerous player for much of the series while getting robbed by MAF.

Played on two broken feet.



HAHAHAHA... were you not watching the Boston series in particular? I am still not fully recovered from the comedy of watching Briere skating around covering nobody. Briere is a defensive disaster regardless of when you look at him... he was just on a roll offensively (to an epic degree) and it masked his defensive stupidity.



Oh, so there are cases where not having your name on the Cup isn't a sign that you should be cast out and branded awful?



That's just it... over large samples, that statement proves not to be true. It's developed from the fact that the human brain is *ing terrible at processing large volumes of information, so you give bias to things like hot playoff runs and playoff success... ignoring when a player possibly has a mediocre playoff run later on.

For a GREAT example of this, go check out Derek Jeter, playoff warrior's stats. He had some hot playoffs when he was younger, but has been quite pedestrian since then.

It's called reversion to mean, and pretty much everyone is susceptible to it... both upwards and downwards over time.

Come on, enough of the excuses. You do not have to agree but stop with the excuses.

And as far as Bourque goes the organization never got him the players he needed to make it over the hump, they were beyond frugal. Bourque went to a team who provided the players to win. Homer has done the same, so no excuses. This team by all accounts with the horses it has in the stables should be a no-brainer Cup contender this year then, with Jeff Carter leading the way, eh?

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10-29-2010, 11:43 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
My conclusion is pretty darm obvious. This team would be better of by trading Carter for a scoring, natural RW to fill that whole in the lineup. If it could come with a high draft pick it owuld be even nicer. As things fit right now Giroux is being forced to RW because Carter is incapable of playing a wing, or even trying at wing.
We already have a scoring, natural RW on this team to fill that hole. And Carter is a better center than him at this point to boot.

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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Come on, enough of the excuses. You do not have to agree but stop with the excuses.

And as far as Bourque goes the organization never got him the players he needed to make it over the hump, they were beyond frugal. Bourque went to a team who provided the players to win. Homer has done the same, so no excuses. This team by all accounts with the horses it has in the stables should be a no-brainer Cup contender this year then, with Jeff Carter leading the way, eh?
I love how injuries are viewed as excuses. If I cut off a players arm... and he sucked at playing the sport, would that be an "excuse?" Look, injuries matter... you want to win ****, you generally need to remain healthy. It's remarkable that we advanced through the playoffs given the injuries that we had... injuries are a primary reason last year was such a struggle during the regular season. Hell, if Ray Emery doesn't get hurt, John Stevens may not have been fired.

Go break your feet and start walking around when they're not fully healed... you'll feel it. Then imagine trying to skate around in the most competitive hockey league in the world. Go separate your shooting side shoulder, and then try to take a wrist shot... from personal experience with a mildly injured shoulder, it 1) hurts like a *****; and 2) you lose a lot of power. If your game is built around your... shot... that's a big time injury to have.

When Briere was Carter's age today, he had played in 6 playoff games, registering 3 pts and a -4. He didn't get to the playoffs again until he was 28 (so, in his prime).

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10-29-2010, 12:53 PM
  #244
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We already have a scoring, natural RW on this team to fill that hole. And Carter is a better center than him at this point to boot.

Nathan Horton, natural scoring RW. Jerome Iginla, natural scoring RW. Claude Giroux, a guy who is a pass first player which is better suited for the center of the ice where he has more space to create for other players.


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I love how injuries are viewed as excuses. If I cut off a players arm... and he sucked at playing the sport, would that be an "excuse?" Look, injuries matter... you want to win ****, you generally need to remain healthy. It's remarkable that we advanced through the playoffs given the injuries that we had... injuries are a primary reason last year was such a struggle during the regular season. Hell, if Ray Emery doesn't get hurt, John Stevens may not have been fired.
Lack of heart, guts, call it whatever injury you want. Carter is not the type of player who is ever going to have success in the playoffs unless it is a no-contact beer league, with the Championship trophy being a case of Victory Golden Monkey.

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Go break your feet and start walking around when they're not fully healed... you'll feel it. Then imagine trying to skate around in the most competitive hockey league in the world. Go separate your shooting side shoulder, and then try to take a wrist shot... from personal experience with a mildly injured shoulder, it 1) hurts like a *****; and 2) you lose a lot of power. If your game is built around your... shot... that's a big time injury to have.
Gagne came back injured and contributed. Blair Betts played all season with an injured shoulder. Plenty of guys are injured in the playoffs. I get it, the China Doll just could not stay healthy come crunch time.

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When Briere was Carter's age today, he had played in 6 playoff games, registering 3 pts and a -4. He didn't get to the playoffs again until he was 28 (so, in his prime

So let's go give Carter a 10 year $6mill contract and make him happy then so we can see him at age 30 attempt to do what Briere did last playoffs.

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10-29-2010, 01:00 PM
  #245
Garbage Goal
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It's always surprising to me how people just take certain posters seriously.

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10-29-2010, 01:03 PM
  #246
Jester
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Nathan Horton, natural scoring RW. Jerome Iginla, natural scoring RW. Claude Giroux, a guy who is a pass first player which is better suited for the center of the ice where he has more space to create for other players.
It's unclear to me why you feel players cannot setup plays from the wing...

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Lack of heart, guts, call it whatever injury you want. Carter is not the type of player who is ever going to have success in the playoffs unless it is a no-contact beer league, with the Championship trophy being a case of Victory Golden Monkey
Based on what?

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Gagne came back injured and contributed. Blair Betts played all season with an injured shoulder. Plenty of guys are injured in the playoffs. I get it, the China Doll just could not stay healthy come crunch time.
Carter had 7 pts in 12 games last year... the entire line got shut down against the Hawks.

He came back early from the first one to be there for the playoffs, and played well against the Devs before going out again. Came back early (again), and got a couple goals against Montreal.

Guys without "heart" and "guts" don't come back early TWICE to play with two still healing BROKEN FEET. If he didn't have "heart" and "guts" he would have just sat out the rest of the year after the second one.

As to your other points.

Blair Betts: doesn't really need to shoot the puck, does he?

Gagne: 12 pts in 19 games (0.63 PPG to Carter's 0.58 PPG).

BTW, I love the China Doll routine. Go take a *ing Pronger slapper off your foot and lets see if your bone absorbs it well. I mean, are you *ing kidding me? He broke a bone.

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10-29-2010, 01:08 PM
  #247
Flyskippy
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's always surprising to me how people just take certain posters seriously.
I'm about to just click "ignore" and be done with it.

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10-29-2010, 01:10 PM
  #248
GoneFullHextall
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Has anyone here ever had a broken foot? let alone 2? I imagine walking would be a PITA let alone lacing up skates amd playing and trying to be productive. of course if he didnt play cartsie would have called him a ***** who cant play with pain.

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10-29-2010, 01:16 PM
  #249
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Carter doesn't care

After wathcing a player like lappy, Carter looks like a person who doesnt have any heart to wear the orange and black! I played hockey myself since I was a kid and I know when someone is playing with heart or just "there", it's so easy to see . I would dump Carter fast fast fast! Break the love connection between Richards and Carter, put some fear in the locker room that no one is safe on the team and try to light some "go get spirtit" into the locker room! I heard Odonald say in an interview that he wants to start speaking his voice in the locker room to get these guys going but he doesnt want to walk on any feet yet, there is definally a click in that locker room that needs to be broken up, screw that! That is not a good sign... Nothing more I hate is watching skilled players play like they are just collecting a pay check. There are many other things in life to do then watch a team that has no heart, day in and day out.

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10-29-2010, 01:17 PM
  #250
Flyskippy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Has anyone here ever had a broken foot? let alone 2? I imagine walking would be a PITA let alone lacing up skates amd playing and trying to be productive. of course if he didnt play cartsie would have called him a ***** who cant play with pain.
Seeing as folks with broken bones in their feet have to elevate their legs to improve their recovery, Carter was taking risks with his healing by even being out there.

I think we must all consider the source when accusations and acerbic posts are made with regards to Jeff Carter.

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