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Jordan Staal to the Maple Leafs

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:39 PM
  #51
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
For starters, Jordan Staal just isn't available. Pittsburgh "got by" (the Detroit Red Wings) with their 3 centres and garbage wingers + mediocre D. Now, the cap has gone up and they have an excellent D.

Second, if Jordan Staal were available, Toronto wouldn't be the team to pay a premium for him. Despite the mancrush there is on these boards for a player like him, he's not his brother. He's an extremely high quality 3rd line centre who can problably become a 2nd liner on a team with less depth, and maybe a longshot first liner, very similar to a guy that plays for the other team in this thread, Kris Versteeg (except he's obviously a winger).

Toronto already has a pair of young 2nd line centres in Tyler Bozak and Mikhail Grabovski, plus another potential one on the way in Nazem Kadri. Would Staal be better than both of the current ones? problably, but it doesn't make a ton of sense to pay the price that would be required in order to make what would be a very mild upgrade offensively. Of course, Staal brings Selke calibre defence, but that's not the roll of a top 6 forward in Toronto. BB's structure to building a team is that of a top 6 scoring group and bottom 6 grinding / pk group where everyone has specific roles. As long as players are somewhat responsible defensively (which both of Bozak and Grabovski are), it doesn't make sense to pay any sort of premium for a top 6 forward who is excellent defensively. He wouldn't penalty kill, he wouldn't match up against other team's top units, he'd be relied on to produce. Obviously there is the benefit of the size that he brings to help our small top 6, but that size just isn't worth the price that Pittsburgh would be demanding.

The alternative use -- Jordan Staal as a 3rd line centre would be incredible (just like it is in Pittsburgh)... but that just wouldn't happen because he is problably better than Grabo/Bozak, has a cap hit too high for the role, and problably wouldn't accept such a role when not behind Crosby/Malkin.

If Staal is available, the team(s) after him will be the ones who have a #1 centre, but really need a guy to anchor their 2nd unit.
I'm not even a Pitt fan but if Staal was traded to Toronto he becomes the best forward on the team easily. Kessel would become a much better player with Staal at center. Kessel is a very good skilled player but lacks size and grit. Kessel can be taken off his game and shut down by physical play like Boston seems to do when they play against Kessel. You add Staal then Chara has to worry about Staal in front of the net instead of Kessel opening up Kessel to make plays.

All that being said if you take Staal away I don't think Pitt would have won the cup. So I don't see Pitt trading Staal without taking an over payment. Even the Leaf's top prospect and second best forward wont get the deal done.

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Old
10-29-2010, 02:52 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
Schenn & Kadri for Staal.
/End of thread.


awful for the leafs, absolutely awful.

Schenn has been playing out of his freaking mind this season, and he's only 20 years old, has been our best defense-man, and yeah there is no way we trade him ALONE for Jordan Staal, let alone add Nazem Kadri, our best prospect.

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10-29-2010, 02:54 PM
  #53
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Staal would cost far more than the Leafs would be willing to consider, and that's that.


Staal isn't going anywhere. The Penguins didn't move Evgeni Malkin to right wing just to trade Staal for prospects.

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10-29-2010, 02:56 PM
  #54
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Schenn or Versteeg+, or just Kessel.

Even then, I don't think it happens. People should stop beating this long-dead horse.

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10-29-2010, 02:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
Schenn or Versteeg+, or just Kessel.

Even then, I don't think it happens. People should stop beating this long-dead horse.
Schenn for Staal, as a Leafs fan I say no deal.

Versteeg+ for Staal, depends what the plus is, I'd probably say deal.

Kessel for Staal, lol..

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10-29-2010, 03:05 PM
  #56
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Boy, you guys are a tough crowd. Obviously Toronto needs a center to play with Kessel, so I was exploring the value of a possible centerman for Kessel. Staal has some potential and I think he would do better on a team with a winger that can put the puck in the net ie Toronto, Columbus or the Rangers. Jordan has rode on the coat tails of Eric which has boosted his perceived value. Maybe I am wrong about it and he never puts up more than 60 points. He didn't make the Olympic team and Cherry also raises his stock by being in his corner.
Yes he is worth more than my original proposal but he is not worth what was paid for Kessel or Pronger. The Pens will most likely not trade him.
So let's throw the floor open to realistic suggestions for a 1st line center...

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10-29-2010, 03:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I'm not even a Pitt fan but if Staal was traded to Toronto he becomes the best forward on the team easily. Kessel would become a much better player with Staal at center. Kessel is a very good skilled player but lacks size and grit. Kessel can be taken off his game and shut down by physical play like Boston seems to do when they play against Kessel. You add Staal then Chara has to worry about Staal in front of the net instead of Kessel opening up Kessel to make plays.

All that being said if you take Staal away I don't think Pitt would have won the cup. So I don't see Pitt trading Staal without taking an over payment. Even the Leaf's top prospect and second best forward wont get the deal done.
What are you talking about?? Staal and Kessel are in a completely different class of player. One is a top line sniper on just about any team in the league, the other is a 3rd line checker who currently capatalizes on being an opportunistic scorer against teams worst defensive units. Does he have potential to elevate his game? absolutely, just like Kris Versteeg.

If Staal was brought in to Toronto for a top 6 role, he would problably be only a mild upgrade offensively on Grabovski/Bozak (as a result of his size). Because Grabovski/Bozak are capable defensively, nothing else matters but the offence.

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10-29-2010, 03:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Best offer I can come up with is Kulemin + Versteeg + Grabo for Staal + filler. Kulemin and Versteeg become probably the 2 best wingers on the Pens, Grabo can be used on the wing or to replace Staal at C.
I think that may be have to be the starting point from Toronto's point of view. A deal around Versteeg and Kulemin would probably be the Leafs' preference.

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Originally Posted by BlamBlam View Post
Schenn + or else I don't think Pitt takes a second glance.
I wouldn't trade Schenn straight up for Staal at this point.

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Originally Posted by youngbloodhockey View Post
Leafs don't want Staal for the asking price.
Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
Because if Shero wanted a 1 dimensial player, with a bad attitude he would have drafted him. Kessel is about stats and stats lead to bigger contracts. Staal contributes to every aspect of the games its not worth it. Not that kessel wouldnt do well in Pitt, but staal is the guy they wanted, and i dont think that has changed
Some people are convinced Kessel could hit 50 this year, most think he's going to hit 40 and that's playing with Tyler Bozak as his centre. If Kessel was on Crosby's line and they ignite some chemistry, I'm scared to think of the numbers they would put up.

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10-29-2010, 03:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post

All that being said if you take Staal away I don't think Pitt would have won the cup. So I don't see Pitt trading Staal without taking an over payment. Even the Leaf's top prospect and second best forward wont get the deal done.
Exactly and no chance Leafs overpay for a 50 point two way C who will be a UFA in three years.

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10-29-2010, 03:17 PM
  #60
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so you want Pittsburgh to give there number 2 center for 3 line winger. again another one sided trade this time for Toronto.

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10-29-2010, 03:33 PM
  #61
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Heh.

If Toronto fans think Staal is an overrated glorified third line center why do they make weekly proposals for him?

If you want to know Staal's real value look which side's fans are doing the constant asking on these boards and which side's fans are saying no.

I do not mind, it is flattering. We know hosw valuable he is, but the constant proposals asking for him, even if ridiculously low, are nice reminders others deep down feel the same. But the disengenuous Staal bashing that always goes on in these after the proposal is made is annoying.

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10-29-2010, 03:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
What are you talking about?? Staal and Kessel are in a completely different class of player. One is a top line sniper on just about any team in the league, the other is a 3rd line checker who currently capatalizes on being an opportunistic scorer against teams worst defensive units. Does he have potential to elevate his game? absolutely, just like Kris Versteeg.

If Staal was brought in to Toronto for a top 6 role, he would problably be only a mild upgrade offensively on Grabovski/Bozak (as a result of his size). Because Grabovski/Bozak are capable defensively, nothing else matters but the offence.
He's a third line center on Pitt. Because they have Crosby and Malkin. On almost any other team in the league he would be a 2nd line center at worst. On probably half the teams in the league he is a # 1 center. Comparing Versteeg and Staal is laughable. Kessel is a very good sniper but a oneway player. Staal is a complete player that could put up 30 plus goals given first line time and top PP time. Kessel's career high in point in 60 Staal's is 49 . Kessel gets top line minutes and top power play minutes. Playing top line minutes and top pp minutes it's not asking too much to expect the 11 point difference to vanish.

Last season Staal had 49 points Kessel had 55 points. Kessel was a -8 and Staal was a +19. So you only got 6 more points out of your top line sniper then Pitt got out of a 3rd line grinder.........Btw don't mention that Staal has better players around him he does after all play on a grinder line.

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10-29-2010, 03:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BlueStorm View Post
What would it take from Toronto to get Staal? I think he could do very well as a 1st line center especially with Kessel.
Ironic you should mention Kessel because if the Penguins were to trade Staal it would be to get a winger for Crosby or Malkin.

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10-29-2010, 03:57 PM
  #64
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Ironic you should mention Kessel because if the Penguins were to trade Staal it would be to get a winger for Crosby or Malkin.
Staal+ for Parise.

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10-29-2010, 04:01 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
He's a third line center on Pitt. Because they have Crosby and Malkin. On almost any other team in the league he would be a 2nd line center at worst. On probably half the teams in the league he is a # 1 center. Comparing Versteeg and Staal is laughable. Kessel is a very good sniper but a oneway player. Staal is a complete player that could put up 30 plus goals given first line time and top PP time. Kessel's career high in point in 60 Staal's is 49 . Kessel gets top line minutes and top power play minutes. Playing top line minutes and top pp minutes it's not asking too much to expect the 11 point difference to vanish.

Last season Staal had 49 points Kessel had 55 points. Kessel was a -8 and Staal was a +19. So you only got 6 more points out of your top line sniper then Pitt got out of a 3rd line grinder.........Btw don't mention that Staal has better players around him he does after all play on a grinder line.
We heard the same stuff about Versteeg.... 3rd line player because of depth. There's problably about 3-4 teams that Staal would be the first line centre, just like there's 3-4 teams where Kris Versteeg would be on the first line, and Toronto happens to be one of them. There's more to production than just the amount of minutes and quality of your linemates.

The problem is that neither you nor I can assume that Staal will produce if given an important scoring role when he goes up agasint much tougher matchups. He might be able to, he might not. He'll problably struggle along the way in doing so, just like Kris Versteeg.

Much like Kris Versteeg, he did most of his scoring on his own, against other teams top offensive units, which generally are the worst defensive units. When teams match up against Pittsburgh, they focus on stopping Crosby/Malkin/Kunitz and the assembly of wingers around them, not Jordan Staal and his 3rd line scoring. Same story in Chicago, teams focus on stopping Toews/Kane/Hossa and the wingers around them, not Kris Versteeg on the 3rd line.

The comparison between Kessel and Staal is laugable. Beyond the fact that Kessel played 12 less games, he had top line minutes on one of the worst teams in the league playing alongside Matt Stajan/Tyler Bozak and Alexei Ponikarovsky/Nikolai Kulemin...not exactly great support. Is he a more complete player? absolutely, but Tim Brent is a more "complete" player than Phil Kessel by that same standard. You're talking about a true top line talent and one of the best snipers in the league versus a depth centre who can provide a very good checking presence and some secondary scoring.

Meanwhile, with Toronto and BB's structure of identifying specific roles for each player to play, being a "complete" player is not something that BB pays a huge premium for. If you're a top 6 forward, it's for the offence (in which case Staal is problably only a marginal upgrade over Bozak/Grabovski). If you're a bottom 6 player, it's primarily for the defence, in which department Staal is an upgrade over Tim Brent in his limited role.

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10-29-2010, 04:30 PM
  #66
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The only way I would be ok with trading Staal is if Maple Leafs fans had a time machine, and went back to 1990 and brought back Gary Roberts, then signed him and traded him to the Penguins. Then I'd be happy.

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10-29-2010, 05:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Staal+ for Parise.

Letang + Michalek + 1st Round Draft Pick for Parise

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