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Zherdev Demoted (update: healthy scratch for October 29)

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:58 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Lavi is feeling this all out... and has admitted as much. The fact that he's publicly admitted to not being exactly sure what he wants to do with everyone makes me feel better about it.

I just wish they'd put Carter at LW if they're so committed to him being on one of the wings...
Please no, he just had his 2 or 3 best games of the season at C.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:59 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Please no, he just had his 2 or 3 best games of the season at C.
You realize he's been at wing to Giroux for the last two games, right?

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:01 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Cripes, I am not happy. I thought Flyers had loaded up this year and will be a real wrecking team, but so many problems with offense:

1. this Z situation, which I had a strong idea would occur given the guy's history;
2. Carter.
3. JVR, which IMO is the least worrisome cuz he is still young and so is the season.. it's just a case of too much expectations too fast...

But tween em all, that's three of the Top 9, equivalent to an entire forward line, not performing at all.
It's way too early to stress about individual players, or the team as far as production goes... just getting their feet wet and working it all out.

Carter, in particular, isn't worth stressing about... him being at RW is going to naturally neuter his production just because of his style.

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10-30-2010, 11:04 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You realize he's been at wing to Giroux for the last two games, right?
...Don't think he really is tbh.

I think that's turning into a version of the Powe/Giroux/Briere line a while ago where I don't think you could point to a single identifiable C on the line.

I don't think he's a C in the traditional mold, but he certainly hasn't been a wing like he's been on the Richards line, he's on the puck a lot more and more importantly, he's been a lot more active defensively.

The one issue I'd say there was that on Bobro's best save last night (the snap shot in front), neither Giroux nor Carter was covering the front of the net.

Giroux seems to be best when he's allowed to drift all over and as long as Carter takes over some of the defensive responsibility, I'm fine with that.

But I don't think that line is a set in stone Powe-Giroux-Carter.

EDIT: You also have to keep in mind that Carter loves going into the offensive zone on the right side for whatever reason, so I'm not totally convinced he'd be a huge success on the LW.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:06 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
...Don't think he really is tbh.

I think that's turning into a version of the Powe/Giroux/Briere line a while ago where I don't think you could point to a single identifiable C on the line.

I don't think he's a C in the traditional mold, but he certainly hasn't been a wing like he's been on the Richards line, he's on the puck a lot more and more importantly, he's been a lot more active defensively.

The one issue I'd say there was that on Bobro's best save last night (the snap shot in front), neither Giroux nor Carter was covering the front of the net.

Giroux seems to be best when he's allowed to drift all over and as long as Carter takes over some of the defensive responsibility, I'm fine with that.

But I don't think that line is a set in stone Powe-Giroux-Carter.
I didn't see much of the other game, but Carter was clearly the RW the majority of the time. He took a few shifts at C on other lines, but with Giroux he was definitely on the wall.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:11 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I didn't see much of the other game, but Carter was clearly the RW the majority of the time. He took a few shifts at C on other lines, but with Giroux he was definitely on the wall.
He was on the wall for sure at times, but he was also doing plenty of work down low and seemed to be roving around.

It's definitely not a Richards line type deal where Carter was glued to the right for a while and just didn't look comfortable.

I don't think that line really has an identifiable C, sure Roo was taking most of the FOs, but I thought Carter was on the puck a lot more than he was with Richards, brought the puck into the zone a lot more, etc.

I mean, that 2 on 1 he had where he chest-sniped Fleury, Giroux tied up his man on the half wall (winger's job), Carter came over, knocked the puck loose, and away he went.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:12 AM
  #107
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how much of this has to do with nodl playing well? granted he's not blessed with zherdev's skillset but every shift he's skating hard and backchecking. he's shown a big improvement from last year in my eyes.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:14 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
how much of this has to do with nodl playing well? granted he's not blessed with zherdev's skillset but every shift he's skating hard and backchecking. he's shown a big improvement from last year in my eyes.
these are big things if you want to play for Lavi

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:15 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
how much of this has to do with nodl playing well? granted he's not blessed with zherdev's skillset but every shift he's skating hard and backchecking. he's shown a big improvement from last year in my eyes.
Nodl has been showing a lot of effort, and done some good things along the wall. He's still showing zero finish ability around the net... and really relies too much on trying to do wraparounds and the like, IMO.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:15 AM
  #110
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Z has been demoted to send a mssg. We all know this.

Yes he can be frustrating to watch b/c of his efforts on the ice, hence the demotion. Hopefully it'll get in his head that the more work he puts in on both ends the more his efforts will be rewarded.

He wanted to come back to North America to play in the NHL. He will get it. It'll work out. *gulp* I hope so.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:20 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Z has been demoted to send a mssg. We all know this.

Yes he can be frustrating to watch b/c of his efforts on the ice, hence the demotion. Hopefully it'll get in his head that the more work he puts in on both ends the more his efforts will be rewarded.

He wanted to come back to North America to play in the NHL. He will get it. It'll work out. *gulp* I hope so.
I don't think he has the guts to work through this. I mean, first he's told he has to start talking to the press. Then he goes to Homer to complain about lack of ice time even though he's done nothing to warrant it. He gets scratched and refuses to talk to the press again. All this shows me is that he's a big baby with a sense of entitlement and he isn't willing to face the music.

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10-30-2010, 12:34 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
how much of this has to do with nodl playing well? granted he's not blessed with zherdev's skillset but every shift he's skating hard and backchecking. he's shown a big improvement from last year in my eyes.
While it's clear that Laviolette's pleased with the way Nödl has played, in "normal" circumstances the player being scratched should have been Carcillo or Powe (or Shelley). Players who fill a somewhat similar role. I hope Zherdev picks it up and gets into a groove, we would be a lot more difficult to defend against with him in our lineup and producing.

The timing of the benching seemed a little bit weird, coming after what many felt was his best game and effort of the year so far, but since we have no knowledge of what goes around in the dressing room there could be a number of issues that Laviolette's been concerned about. The way Zherdev handles himself before the games (that is during warmups) etc.

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Old
10-30-2010, 01:28 PM
  #113
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I think it's funny how people have no clue what's going on behind closed doors and take Zherde 's back anyway. Nobody know exactly what's going on but we all know Zherdev has been with 4 teams In the last 4 seasons so I'm backing Homer and Lavi. They haven't benched this relevant of player as far as I can remember so it's not like they do this a lot. And no Upshall and Downie were not this relevant.

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10-30-2010, 01:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
While it's clear that Laviolette's pleased with the way Nödl has played, in "normal" circumstances the player being scratched should have been Carcillo or Powe (or Shelley). Players who fill a somewhat similar role. I hope Zherdev picks it up and gets into a groove, we would be a lot more difficult to defend against with him in our lineup and producing.

The timing of the benching seemed a little bit weird, coming after what many felt was his best game and effort of the year so far, but since we have no knowledge of what goes around in the dressing room there could be a number of issues that Laviolette's been concerned about. The way Zherdev handles himself before the games (that is during warmups) etc.
Assuming he complained about ice time after that game... it makes sense this would then happen. However, all of this gets back to the fact that there is NOTHING at all shocking about these aspects of Zherdev.

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Old
10-30-2010, 01:32 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I think it's funny how people have no clue what's going on behind closed doors and take Zherde 's back anyway. Nobody know exactly what's going on but we all know Zherdev has been with 4 teams In the last 4 seasons so I'm backing Homer and Lavi. They haven't benched this relevant of player as far as I can remember so it's not like they do this a lot. And no Upshall and Downie were not this relevant.
Upshall was benched to send a message with regard to penalties (which was fair, the problem was Stevens was ignoring the fact that he had some flagrant perpetrators he wasn't saying anything about). It wasn't about attitude adjustment and the like. Downie... was a 1st rd. draft pick that they were *ing around with. So, he was a LOT more relevant than Zherdev, who is a cheap one-year investment.

I would also suggest that Downie wasn't "benched" to send messages even then... Stevens just didn't seem to like using him at all.

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10-30-2010, 01:51 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Upshall was benched to send a message with regard to penalties (which was fair, the problem was Stevens was ignoring the fact that he had some flagrant perpetrators he wasn't saying anything about). It wasn't about attitude adjustment and the like. Downie... was a 1st rd. draft pick that they were *ing around with. So, he was a LOT more relevant than Zherdev, who is a cheap one-year investment.

I would also suggest that Downie wasn't "benched" to send messages even then... Stevens just didn't seem to like using him at all.
By relevant I mean that its a bigger deal to scratch a veteran than it is to bench a young unproven player which Downie was at the time. There wasnt a big uproar when they sat JVR last year, he was a #2 overall. Benching a 5-6 year veteran is a big deal and a bigger shock which is why I back the coach on this. Something is going on IMO.

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10-30-2010, 01:57 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
By relevant I mean that its a bigger deal to scratch a veteran than it is to bench a young unproven player which Downie was at the time. There wasnt a big uproar when they sat JVR last year, he was a #2 overall. Benching a 5-6 year veteran is a big deal and a bigger shock which is why I back the coach on this. Something is going on IMO.
Well, Zherdev is Zherdev... seems pretty clear to me. I agree with you that the coach deserves the benefit of the doubt given Z's track record. But having problems with a guy you have very little invested in... not a big deal. If this thing blows up and they have to dump Z, it makes the whole Gagne situation this summer dumber... but there are no long-term ramifications for the organization.

What was going on with Downie was problematic (for a lot of reasons), and when you're talking about jerking around a 1st rd pick (it was a lot different with Downie than what happened with JVR last year)... you're messing with a lot of sunken cost.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:46 PM
  #118
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So two games in a row Zherdev is in the press box......what are the chances he's going to try and redeem himself? Why did Holmgren even sign this problem child...Frolov was so much the better choice.

Trade him out west where his style is better suited. It's so obvious from his play that he doesn't want to work within the pressure system. Laviolette is a stickler when it comes to that and I don't blame him. Zherdev had his moments where he played within the system but then you would see him float and try and be opportunistic for himself and not pressure the puckhandler. Even the last game he played I saw him a few times just peel off the opposing player instead of pressuring him.

What a shame..so much upside but another Daigle, Falloon type....

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:16 PM
  #119
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This is a disappointment, I wasn't able to catch the Pens game but I thought he looked really good during the Buffalo game. He has been streaky but so have alot of our guys.

Z got an attitude adjustment. I just hope he can take it like a man and come back with no animosity. Too bad for him Laviolette is our coach. John Stevens would have just baked him a cake and everything would be back to normal. He will have to work twice as hard to earn it back from Laviolette. Gut check time.

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10-30-2010, 11:58 PM
  #120
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Flyers owe the Wings for Leino. Ship Zherdev off to the Wings. Datsyuk will show him how it's done.

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10-31-2010, 12:11 AM
  #121
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Flyers owe the Wings for Leino. Ship Zherdev off to the Wings. Datsyuk will show him how it's done.
Nonsense you have OKT.

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