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The 2010 AAA Draft (rosters, picks, discussion, etc.)

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Old
10-30-2010, 02:01 PM
  #701
BillyShoe1721
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Philadelphia selects a spare forward that may be the most talented player remaining, but he doesn't come without his issues, LW Real Chevrefils



3x Top 16 NHL Goals (5, 11, 16)
1x Top 12 NHL Points (12)
1x NHL 2nd-Team All Star
2x NHL All-Star Game Participant (one merit-based)

Quote:
Chevrefils first played in the NHL in 1951-52, dressing for 33 games with the Bruins, scoring eight times and collecting 25 points. He followed that up the next year by scoring 19 goals and 33 points while helping Boston to reach the Stanley Cup final, where they lost in five games to the rival Montreal Canadiens.

From a statistical point of view, 1956-57 was the best year for Chevrefils, who scored 31 goals and 17 assists for the Burins and once again guided them to the finals, where the lost to the Canadiens, once again dropping the best-of-seven series in five games. The two clubs met yet again in the 1958 championship, but with the same results. The one small difference being the Bruins extended the final by one game, losing to their nemesis in six games, 4-2.

Hap Emms, a longtime coach and general manager of some of the brightest junior stars ever to come out of Canada, once called Chevrefils the best player he had ever coached. "Chevy," as he was nicknamed, was known for his deft puckhandling and skating skills, had led Emms' Barrie Flyers to the Memorial Cup championship in 1951.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12257

Quote:
In 1955, Lynn Patrick, who had succeeded Art Ross as General Manager of the Boston Bruins predicted that Chevrefils “…will be an all-star within three years, and within five years, he’ll be one of the best left wings ever to play in the league.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9al_Chevrefils

Quote:
"I thought he'd be the best left winger in the NHL for a good eight to ten years," Morrison said. "No one could touch him, and he proved that against Quebec. He was outstanding-skating, stickhandling, shooting. He read the play well, instinctively.

"I think my dad thought Chevy could do anything," says Paul Emms, Hap Emms' son. "He could literally dance on his skates and score and he wasn't afraid of anything. Dad had a lot of good hockey players, but Chevy was special."

Sam Cancilla, the twelve-year old back in 1951, would see Chevrefils in games and at practice. He says it would be like watching Wayne Gretzky in his prime. "The things he could do with the puck."
http://books.google.com/books?id=urX...refils&f=false

Quote:
Coach Lynn Patrick had assembled a well-balanced team with a single high scoring individual line. The best line of the moment was centered by veteran Milt Schmidt and flanked by two youngsters, Real Chevrefils and Leo Labine.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9jI...refils&f=false

Quote:
...outskated the backchecking Murray Henderson and Real Chevrefils, then one of the best skaters in the league...
http://books.google.com/books?id=RDq...refils&f=false

Quote:
Real Chevrefils, one of the most promising Bruins rookies in several seasons, tried to break an early season slump and blossom into a potential 20 goal scorer
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...y&pqatl=google


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 10-30-2010 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
10-30-2010, 02:09 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Philadelphia selects a spare forward that may be the most talented player remaining, but he doesn't come without his issues, LW Real Chevrefils

he had to be the only guy left with a post-season NHL All Star nod?

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10-30-2010, 02:14 PM
  #703
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He was one of them, I don't know of any others.

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10-30-2010, 02:14 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
he had to be the only guy left with a post-season NHL All Star nod?
There's one more for sure.

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10-30-2010, 02:18 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Johnstown Jets select: Defenseman Shawn Chambers





and yet the single greatest thing about this pick:


being a key player in 2 cup wins and another finals run doesn't hurt either.
Dammit, I was going to pick him as our spare defenseman if Dreak didn't get back to me about a guy he liked better (and he still hasn't).

I'm not sure how "key" Chambers was in 1999 as the Stars' #5 defenseman, but he was pretty important in NJ's 1995 Cup win.

In the Eastern Conference semis:

Quote:
PITTSBURGH At first blush, there's nothing remarkable about Shawn Chambers. The Devils defenseman is hardly a great skater, isn't particularly physical and puts up good but not eye-popping offensive numbers.

But he plays a steady game. He doesn't give too much away defensively and chips in with a goal once in a while, as he did in yesterday's 4-1 victory over the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Chambers' third-period power-play goal was the insurance the Devils were looking for as they tried to protect a 2-1 lead for the final 20 minutes.

...

Lemaire made the adjustment during Game 2, breaking up his usual No. 1 defense pair of Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermayer to put Chambers with Stevens against the big Pittsburgh line. Chambers said it was because the coach didn't want Niedermayer out against Kevin Stevens, the 6-3, 217-pound left wing.

The switch worked, obviously. Jagr, who had three goals in the first two games of the series, was blanked the last three and Kevin Stevens didn't score the entire series.

"Playing against Jagr who I think is the best player in the league, maybe the world is definitely a challenge," Chambers said. "It was nice to see they had confidence in me to put me out there against him.

"Especially after he's burned us about eight times in his career."

But he didn't in this series, for which goalie Martin Brodeur was grateful.

"When (Jagr) is coming in, usually he beats the defenseman. But I don't think I saw him beat a defenseman clean," Brodeur said. "Usually a guy had a stick on him or something."

And quite often that guy was Chambers.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/..._a_bullet.html

In the Eastern Conference finals:

Quote:
The Flyers have thrown more of the monster hits, but the Devils have been the tougher team. They have accepted the checks and absorbed the physical punishment without excuse or apology. Every time Lindros cleanly obliterates Chambers against the boards, the defenseman shakes the blur from his eyes and finishes another unblemished shift.
...
There are many reasons the Devils hold a 2-0 series lead on the Flyers and intimidation or the Flyers' inability to intimidate is one of the biggest.

"It all comes down to team," said Chambers. "You've got to make sure you sacrifice to get the job done. If Lindros comes out and hits 20 guys a night, it's going to take its toll. It takes a lot more for him to hit me than it does for me to take the hit and go."
...
"If (Lindros) wants to go out and keep hitting us, that's fine with us," Chambers said. "He's going to get tired that way. He's not putting the puck in the net if he's hitting us."
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...of_flyers.html

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10-30-2010, 02:18 PM
  #706
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Toledo selects coach Ernie "Punch" McLean



McLean's:
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Who knows how many times legendary Western Hockey League team owner and coach Ernie “Punch” McLean gave the locker room speech about never giving up when things look grim? Certainly enough to lead his New Westminster Bruins to four consecutive Memorial Cups in the mid-1970s, and two national titles; enough that 80 of his players made the National Hockey League; enough to embrace the risk of his second career as a prospector and gold miner. Most recently, last week—at age 77, and lost five days without coat, compass or food while working his Settea Creek gold property in the dense bush of northwestern B.C.—he gave the speech to himself.

Even a guy as stubborn, strong and proud as McLean—hungry, wet, cold and beset by mosquitoes—had fleeting doubts. “Is this it?” he’d wondered. “Is this the end of the trail for me?” But with the nickname Punch, earned over a lifetime of misadventures, he had a rich vein of resources to draw on. What he loves about sports are the life lessons about winning, and losing, he said in an interview Monday, back in the comforting confines of a Burnaby hockey complex. By then he seemed none the worse for wear. His face is as craggy as the landscape he prospects and his handshake could squeeze ore from a rock. “I’ve used this philosophy in life,” he says. “If anything happens, you just keep on going, because if you quit, it’s over.”

In the bush there have been mishaps too numerous to mention, though some, he admits, have been embellished into legend. Having his foot run over by a bulldozer, however—that was painfully true.
Then there was the plane crash in 1972, while doing a freelance assignment in northern Saskatchewan as a pilot for Dome Petroleum. “On the way back,” he says, “I iced up and went down into the woods. I lost my eye and my jaw was all broken up.” It took three days to reach help. “This time I wasn’t hurt,” he says. “That time I had a pair of shorts rolled under my jaw and a white T-shirt holding everything together.”

McLean plans to be back working his claim within days. There’s just weeks left before weather makes the site impassible. As for the attraction of gold, it’s not that dissimilar to prospecting for hockey talent. He tells the story of reluctantly accepting a late recommendation to add a player, just turning 16, to the Canadian team he coached at the world junior championships in 1978.

His name was Wayne Gretzky and he looked awful scrawny. “I said, well look it, I’ll put you in places where you’re not going to get yourself in any trouble.” Turns out that place was in front of the net. Gretzky emerged as the tournament’s leading scorer. And, yes, says McLean, that’s what if feels like to find a nice fat streak of gold.
HHOF Time Capsule: The 1970s
Quote:
"I reached out to tap him [linesman Harv Hildebrandt] on the head and my hand caught in his hair. He was wearing a toupee which came off in my hand, so I just dropped it on the ice. The funny thing is that Harv reached down and put it on backwards." - coach Ernie McLean in 1976 (league was not amused and ordered McLean to post a $5,000 personal performance bond)

Coach Ernie McLean once threw an opposition's water bottle at the referee with no one looking. The name of the opposing team was written on the bottle and hence the team received a penalty. McLean's team scored on the subsequent powerplay

Memorial Cups: 2 consecutive
Memorial Cup Appearances: 4 consecutive (league record)
Regular Season Winning %: .663
Individual Trophy Winners: 9
Individuals Selected To Memorial Cup All-Star Team: 9
Key Team Records:
Most Points: 112 in 1975-76
Fewest Home Losses, One Season: 0 in 1973-74 (league record)
24 House Vancouver
Quote:
Ernie "Punch" McLean will take a well-deserved break from prospecting near Atlin in northern British Columbia so he can be immortalized in the B.C. Hockey Hall of Fame this July.

He was a colourful character who won a lot of hockey games," said induction committee member Jim Robson, the Canucks' ex-play-by-play broadcaster. "He sent a lot of players to the NHL."

McLean's 16-year coaching career was highlighted by back-to-back Memorial Cup wins in 1977 and 1978 for the famed New Westminster Bruins. National Hockey League greats Stan Smyl, Barry Beck and Brad Maxwell were among many of McLean's proteges.

The 73-year-old spends winter in Vancouver where he's a fixture at Canucks or Giants' games. He said his proudest achievement was teaching young hockey players the "glory of winning and frustration of losing."

He said the business of junior hockey has changed immensely through the decades.


Last edited by Hedberg: 10-30-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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Old
10-30-2010, 02:19 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
There's one more for sure.
Ahh, I think I know who. But is it someone that anyone in his right mind would pick?

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Old
10-30-2010, 02:40 PM
  #708
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RW/D Stanislav Petukhov



19 goals in 46 games for Soviet National Team
Soviet Hockey Hall of Fame Member
170 goals in 368 career Soviet League games
3x Top 7 goal scoring in Soviet League (5, 7, 7)
2x Olympic Medalist (1 Gold, 1 Silver)
1x World Championship Gold Medalist

Quote:
When Stanislav Petukhov first appeared in the Dynamo Moscow lineup, he was noticed right away. He was tall, well-built, and at the same time graceful and agile. He became a star because he had a number of exceptional abilities, including an excellent skating style, great speed, and a powerful shot. This winger's physical strength and consummate technical skill enabled him to play a good game in front of the opponent's net, where he always felt comfortable. As well, he had an exceptional ability to slap the puck into the net after it was deflected by the goaltender.

He had his own particular way of playing the crease, as well as a feel for the polished, diversified, and well-set-up plays. He never tried to take advantage of his huge frame. Always keeping his eye on the puck, he ignored attempts to push him out of the crease. Whenever he could, he would take a shot on goal without hesitation.

Petukhov's skill at the boards and in the corners of the rink - something most forwards lacked - also distinguished his style of play. This wasn't only because of his physical strength. His game near the boards wasn't a spontaneous reaction to what was happening there but a conscious strategy aimed at further developing plays. His tactical maturity was evident in the mutual understanding he developed with partners who had a different style of play.

Petukhov played major league hockey for 13 years, all of them with Dynamo Moscow. He was lucky to avoid any serious injury, loss of capability and conflicts with coaches. Petukhov began playing as a forward and ended his career on the defense line. This wasn't by choice but due to changes in team tactics. To his credit, Petukhov immediately accepted the coach's decision, putting aside his personal ambitions.

There are obvious differences between playing defense and being on the forward line, and Petukhov quickly mastered the new skills. His previous experience as a forward made his game in defense more polished and streamlined. But whenever he charged from one end of the rink to the other, you could feel that he was essentially a forward. yet when he returned to his own zone, he would meet oncoming opponents with a stiff bodycheck in order to get a hold of the puck or paste them to the boards like a true defenseman.
Kings of the Ice

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10-30-2010, 02:47 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Ahh, I think I know who. But is it someone that anyone in his right mind would pick?
If it's who I'm thinking then they're not even AA draft material.

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10-30-2010, 02:51 PM
  #710
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There's actually 8 post-season all-stars remaining; all goalies. The guy I was thinking of was the only 1st team all-star left.

Sorry for my edits, but I think that's the final count


Last edited by Hedberg: 10-30-2010 at 02:58 PM.
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10-30-2010, 02:55 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
There's actually 6 post-season all-stars remaining; all goalies.
Ah yes. I just checked (I had thought of 2 of them on my own). The phenomenon of the one-hit wonder goalie in a 30 team league - the main reason that modern goalies like Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, and Belfour are at a major disadvantage vs. Original 6 goalies when it comes to racking up the postseason All-Star nods.

Edit: And the guy you were thinking of was the first one I thought of too.

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10-30-2010, 04:16 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
With yesterday's skipped pick, Queen's University select 18-year NHL veteran left winger Ron Murphy, an Original Six Era scoring line player who became a checking line regular.




http://www.bringthenhltohamilton.com/ron_murphy.html



At age 19, not long after shining as the offensive star of the 1952 Memorial Cup championship (20 points in 12 games), he started his long NHL career and two years later, in his first full NHL season in New York, was 5th in Rangers scoring, and again did so the next year, and was on pace to repeat his scoring trend in 1956-57 when the 23 year old was involved in the infamous stick-swiming incident with Boom Boom (Geoffrion broke Murphy's jaw), resulting in Murphy's only ever AHL assignment in his 14 seasons in Original Era NHL hockey, and that was soon followed by a trade to Chicago, where with the Blackhawks he was again top-5 in team scoring two of his first three seasons there.


Murphy and Nesterenko are battling against Toronto in this photo.

Murphy was Nesterenko's linemate for several years on the Blackhawks in the O6 era, mostly on a checking line though the two of them played with Hull prior to they getting hurt halfway through the 1960-61 season. The next season Horvath centered them, though Murphy was hurt come the playoffs so Fleming joined the line temporarily. The following season Murphy and Nesterenko played with an undrafted center on what is described as a checking line. (Note: Nesterenko, drafted in the 13th round of ATD 2010, is often listed as a center but he played right wing for several seasons with Murphy, as a number of centers joined them over the years.) Murphy scored double digit goals in each of the ten Original-6 Era full seasons he played, including 21 (2nd in team goal scoring) and an NHL all-star team berth the season the Blackhawks went on to the Stanley Cup , he contributing a couple of playoff goals in the win.

The worst you can say is that he was "Promise Unfulfilled", as he's labelled in the book Hockey's Glory Days: in the 1950's and 1960's . But, even then, he was a checking line regular and secondary scorer through much of the Original Six Era. And he was talked out of retirement by Boston to join Esposito and Cashman on the Bruins top line, the trio setting the league record for scoring by a line in the 196869 NHL season, Murphy 6th in team scoring that season, his last full season before retiring. He is mostly a LW, though he was RW when playing on top lines with Hull in Chicago and Cashman in Boston.
I think Muphy's a very good pick and it was very tough selecting between him and Hiller for that 4th line LW spot.

Offensively, on one hand, he had more 30-point seasons pre-expansion than anyone else, he had 7 and no one else even had 5. The two guys who had 4, did so mostly during the 1940s, when many mediocre players scored 30. On the other hand, as you said, he played with some really good players for a few years, and it's amazing how many more points his linemates outscored him by - a lot of goals were scored without him touching the puck.

Away from the puck, there are a few sides to it as well. He spent some time as a checking line player, which is great, but then, I haven't found anything stating he was any good at it. The sheer number of games he lasted in the O6 era should serve as reasonable evidence, mind you. And the fact that he played with great players without putting up a lot of points, although damning of his offensive ability, shows his ability to be a complementary, "glue guy" type player.

At the AAA level I just couldn't decide where I'd place him if I took him, then began to think he was too good to pass up as a 4th-liner, but Hiller's more proven offense, defense, and playoffs won me over at the last minute. I would not have hesitated to draft him at any spot in the AA draft - 1st line glue guy, or 4th line grinder.

One stat that is pretty hard to argue against - He was 54th in all-time points as of expansion in 1967, easily the highest among undrafted players. The next highest scorer among undrafted players? 135th! with just 65% as many points as Murphy. keep in mind that this list includes a few guys who scored more points in the war than they probably should have, anad even most of those guys were selected by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Johnstown Jets select: Defenseman Shawn Chambers





and yet the single greatest thing about this pick:


being a key player in 2 cup wins and another finals run doesn't hurt either.
Not bad - 21.11 minutes a game for 625 games (and 94 more in the playoffs! )

Icetime stats suggest he was the #3 and #5 defenseman in his two cup wins - not too shabby.

I actually remember how bad he was in NHL '93! that was brutal. It was before they started making each player a minimum of a 50 overall (which makes sense considering how good you have to be to make it at all)

Don't forget he was selected to be USA's #7 defenseman in the 1996 world cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Tom Johnson, coach



- 1972 Stanley Cup winner with the Bruins
- .738 career regular season win% (best ever)
- .682 career playoff win%
- a players' coach
*shudder*

I know he won a cup, but so did other guys, and he has two full NHL seasons to his credit and no coaching experience outside of the NHL.

There were at least 10 more guys with better achievements overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Queen's University select center Mickey Roach, the 8-year NHL veteran who finished 4th and 6th in NHL assists in 1920-21 and 1922-23 as well as 6th in NHL goals with 17 in 1922-23. He had been a 1st team all-star on the Hamilton Tigers in the OHA-Sr. league in 1919, scoring also in the Allan Cup that year. He was a USNHL 1st team all-star the season before that, and a AAHL 1st team all-star twice before that. He clearly was elite at every level he played at.




http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=14138
As someone who has criticized pre-merger players with suspect offensive finishes before as "fool's gold", I am really surprised you would use words like "elite" when describing Mickey Roach.

- His BcSHL, AAHL & USNHL seasons can pretty much be tossed out. He was a first team all-star, yes, but these weren't close to NHL-caliber leagues and there is not s single drafted player listed as having participated in any of them. He appears to have been a good, but not great, player in these leagues. In a case of extreme domination of low-level leagues, some benefit of the doubt can be given, but not here.

- His 1919 SOHA season was out-friggin-standing and probably the highlight of his resume. He averaged 3.5 points per game, the best SOHA mark I have seen,and you know I've spent some time researching the SOHA's best players. He outscored Shroty Green, Babe Dye, Ernie Parkes, Bert McCaffrey, Bob Trapp, Leo Reise Sr, and Carson Cooper by wide margins. Very solid.

- His NHL seasons need to be examined in proper context. There are many ways this can be done, but the most elementary way to do it, which is pretty cost-effective from a time usage standpoint, is looking at points finishes, which you were doing.

- 1920: He was out of the top-20. not worthy of mention.
- 1921: He was 14th in points, with less than half of what first place has. 14th is, in a merged league, a pretty damn good season for a AAA-level player, but the PCHA was almost as strong as the NHL, with about 40% of the best pro players out there, so 14th in a 60% league is barely worth mentioning.
- 1922: He was 14th in points, again with less than half of first place. This season is even less impressive because instead of the NHL being just one of two top pro leagues, now it's one of three top pro leagues. Not worth mentioning this season as evidence of greatness.
- 1923: He was 5th in points, with 73% of the leader, which is excellent on an NHL level. Still, the NHL was one of three leagues. Well-worth mentioning as a good season, even after putting in proper context.
- 1924: He was 19th in points, with 1/3rd of the leader, which is nothing, especially when you consider the NHL was one of three leagues.
- 1925-1926: the NHL was now one of just two leagues, but he was no longer posting strong offensive numbers.
- 1927: The NHL was now the only league, but his 11 goals were still short of the top-20 and his 11 points only put him halfway to the top-20.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboni Mania View Post
The Tigers draft Bobby Kromm.



* Jack Adams Trophy (1978) Detroit Red Wings, head coach
* WHA Championship (1976) Winnipeg Jets, head coach
* Canada Cup (1976) Team Canada, assistant coach
* CHL Championships (1969, 1974) Dallas Blackhawks, head coach
* World Championship Gold (1961) Trail Smoke Eaters, head coach

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10-30-2010, 04:27 PM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Philadelphia selects a spare forward that may be the most talented player remaining, but he doesn't come without his issues, LW Real Chevrefils



3x Top 16 NHL Goals (5, 11, 16)
1x Top 12 NHL Points (12)
1x NHL 2nd-Team All Star
2x NHL All-Star Game Participant (one merit-based)



http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12257



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9al_Chevrefils



http://books.google.com/books?id=urX...refils&f=false



http://books.google.com/books?id=9jI...refils&f=false



http://books.google.com/books?id=RDq...refils&f=false



http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...y&pqatl=google
Right on both counts. Arguably the most talented player left, and definitely had his issues.

Nonetheless, I'd have loved him on an AA first line.

BTW, both his all-star games were on merit, weren't they? He never won the cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Toledo selects coach Ernie "Punch" McLean



McLean's:


HHOF Time Capsule: The 1970s


24 House Vancouver


Totally overlooked by my scouting... but after checking out his record, he is a decent AAA coach.

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10-30-2010, 04:32 PM
  #714
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70s, since you called Shawn Chambers the #3 on the 1995 Cup winner by ice time, do you have the full ice time stats of all the Devils defensemen in that run? I'm curious. I know the top 5 have been drafted by now (Stevens, Niedermayer, Chambers, Daneyko, Driver), but I'm interested in their respective times.

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10-30-2010, 04:45 PM
  #715
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Bob Kromm was one of three coaches we were considering before settling on Emile Francis.

Tom Johnson - aren't their quotes from numerous Bruins about how they were basically coaching themselves when he was in charge?

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10-30-2010, 04:47 PM
  #716
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Stephane Robidas, D

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10-30-2010, 04:55 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
...[Murphy] played with some really good players for a few years, and it's amazing how many more points his linemates outscored him by - a lot of goals were scored without him touching the puck... the fact that he played with great players without putting up a lot of points, although damning of his offensive ability, shows his ability to be a complementary, "glue guy" type player
That was my thinking. When Murphy was on a top line he was in a supporting role. Thae fact that he is praised for his skating and positional play is suggestive of the sort of role he could play away from the puck.

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He spent some time as a checking line player, which is great, but then, I haven't found anything stating he was any good at it. The sheer number of games he lasted in the O6 era should serve as reasonable evidence, mind you.
He spent YEARS on a line with Nesterenko. Big Eric of course received the defensive accolades, but Ron outscored him in 4 of the 6 years they both were in Chicago, though totals are close. I imagine Eric banging and crashing while Ron skates and positions himself between passers for interceptions and in quick retreat to foil rushes against. Something like that.

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I just couldn't decide where I'd place him if I took him, then began to think he was too good to pass up as a 4th-liner, but Hiller's more proven offense, defense, and playoffs won me over at the last minute.
I think him a great extra skater because of the uncertainty over hius role but the clear evidence he can play a top-6 or bottom-6 role. He should be able to sub on the 2nd line or the 4th line, covering for injuries and suspensions. Just as you wanted Hiller for the 4th line LW spot, so I wanted Dan Maloney. Murphy is just competent replacement, too good to pass through this draft, but not clearly exceptional enough in any one area of his game to start on this squad.

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One stat that is pretty hard to argue against - He was 54th in all-time points as of expansion in 1967, easily the highest among undrafted players. The next highest scorer among undrafted players? 135th! with just 65% as many points as Murphy.
Wow. Just wow. Where do you get such stats?

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10-30-2010, 04:55 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
70s, since you called Shawn Chambers the #3 on the 1995 Cup winner by ice time, do you have the full ice time stats of all the Devils defensemen in that run? I'm curious. I know the top 5 have been drafted by now (Stevens, Niedermayer, Chambers, Daneyko, Driver), but I'm interested in their respective times.
Keep in mind these are just the regular season figures, the most likely scenario was that this continued into the playoffs:

STEVENS, SCOTT 25.260 20.201 2.450 2.609
NIEDERMAYER, SCOTT 22.837 17.369 3.184 2.283
DRIVER, BRUCE 20.071 14.943 3.621 1.506
UNDRAFTY UNDRAFTEDSSON 19.256 16.809 0.980 1.468
DANEYKO, KEN 17.552 16.371 0.000 1.181

I made a mistake on Chambers... based on his overall, season-long icetime he would have been 3rd on the Devils:

CHAMBERS, SHAWN 20.103 16.490 2.719 0.894

However, he was used a lot less in NJ than he was on his first team, after coming over:

CHAMBERS, SHAWN 17.714 14.580 2.096 1.038

So based on overall minutes you could say he was their 5th defenseman, and he was 6th at even strength, it appears.

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Bob Kromm was one of three coaches we were considering before settling on Emile Francis.

Tom Johnson - aren't their quotes from numerous Bruins about how they were basically coaching themselves when he was in charge?
Yep.

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I applaud this pick. He's made big strides in recent years, and is a legit #1 defenseman.

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10-30-2010, 04:57 PM
  #719
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Wow. Just wow. Where do you get such stats?
I used the hockey-reference.com powerplay function:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

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10-30-2010, 04:58 PM
  #720
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Right on both counts. Arguably the most talented player left, and definitely had his issues.

Nonetheless, I'd have loved him on an AA first line.

BTW, both his all-star games were on merit, weren't they? He never won the cup.
No, because his first ASG was in 1955, the season where he was traded from Boston to Detroit in the deal for Sawchuk. Detroit had won the cup the previous season, but Chevrefils wasn't on the team.

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10-30-2010, 04:58 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Keep in mind these are just the regular season figures, the most likely scenario was that this continued into the playoffs:

STEVENS, SCOTT 25.260 20.201 2.450 2.609
NIEDERMAYER, SCOTT 22.837 17.369 3.184 2.283
DRIVER, BRUCE 20.071 14.943 3.621 1.506
UNDRAFTY UNDRAFTEDSSON 19.256 16.809 0.980 1.468
DANEYKO, KEN 17.552 16.371 0.000 1.181

I made a mistake on Chambers... based on his overall, season-long icetime he would have been 3rd on the Devils:

CHAMBERS, SHAWN 20.103 16.490 2.719 0.894

However, he was used a lot less in NJ than he was on his first team, after coming over:

CHAMBERS, SHAWN 17.714 14.580 2.096 1.038

So based on overall minutes you could say he was their 5th defenseman, and he was 6th at even strength, it appears.
He was definitely more than a #5 defenseman in the playoffs in 1995. He was Stevens' partner on the top pairing against the Penguins (definitely) and Red Wings (if I remember correctly), and got significant time on the PP.

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10-30-2010, 05:02 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I applaud this pick. He's made big strides in recent years, and is a legit #1 defenseman.
Thanks. That's how I feel as well. He's really come into his own in Dallas and should have the skills needed to be Sami Salo's injury reserve.

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10-30-2010, 05:09 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
No, because his first ASG was in 1955, the season where he was traded from Boston to Detroit in the deal for Sawchuk. Detroit had won the cup the previous season, but Chevrefils wasn't on the team.
Ahh, good catch.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He was definitely more than a #5 defenseman in the playoffs in 1995. He was Stevens' partner on the top pairing against the Penguins (definitely) and Red Wings (if I remember correctly), and got significant time on the PP.
They must have used him more in the playoffs than in the regular season, then. Perhaps earlier on, they were feeling out his role on the team.

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10-30-2010, 05:10 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by seventieslord
As someone who has criticized pre-merger players with suspect offensive finishes before as "fool's gold", I am really surprised you would use words like "elite" when describing Mickey Roach.
True, true. Fixed. Put "earned his way to the top level of competition" to summarize the significance of four consecutive years of 1st all-star selections in three lesser American leagues for the American player before he showed up on the Ontario scene as a Hamilton Tigers player in 1919.

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Originally Posted by seventieslord
His 1919 SOHA season was out-friggin-standing and probably the highlight of his resume. He averaged 3.5 points per game, the best SOHA mark I have seen, and you know I've spent some time researching the SOHA's best players. He outscored Shroty Green, Babe Dye, Ernie Parkes, Bert McCaffrey, Bob Trapp, Leo Reise Sr, and Carson Cooper by wide margins. Very solid.
He was a 1st team all-star in Hamilton this season too, thus completing his surge upward to the top.

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Originally Posted by seventieslord
1923: He was 5th in points, with 73% of the leader, which is excellent on an NHL level. Still, the NHL was one of three leagues. Well-worth mentioning as a good season, even after putting in proper context.
So his 1919 and 1923 seasons are impressive, while his offensive production the other many years are at best average, journeymanlike. Still, he played eight NHL seasons even if pre-merger, and seemed to be an offensive line player only, the sources cite his offensive skills without mentioning any intangibles. He is a top-6 sub in this draft with evidence he can handle the role for a period of time. Nevertheless, he is a bit of a question mark in terms of whether he could be an impact player rather than just a stop-gap fill-in.

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10-30-2010, 05:10 PM
  #725
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Just as you wanted Hiller for the 4th line LW spot, so I wanted Dan Maloney.
I wanted Maloney even more, though... it was him or Horeck all along, and I had completely forgotten Horeck was an MLD pick.

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