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Erik Karlsson

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Old
10-29-2010, 08:39 PM
  #51
Asquaredx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To Vancouver: Jared Cowen & Chris Kelly
To Ottawa: Jordan Schroeder & Kevin Bieksa
No thank you. I think most Ottawa fans are hoping Cowen - Karlsson can be a pairing in the mould (though not calibre) of Keith - Seabrook for many, many years to come.

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Old
10-29-2010, 10:43 PM
  #52
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Giroux.

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Old
10-29-2010, 11:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
No thank you. I think most Ottawa fans are hoping Cowen - Karlsson can be a pairing in the mould (though not calibre) of Keith - Seabrook for many, many years to come.
I was just gonna post the same thing. Cowen and Karlsson is a pairing I'm quite looking forward to.

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Old
10-30-2010, 01:42 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ErikKarlsson View Post
And in his last 4-6 games he has been great again except for the Pittsburgh game, putting up 4 points in 6 games.
I agree...I have seen all the games so that's why I acknowledged his better play...I just don't classify playing well for half the games as being unreal

And to the poster about ranking him as high as a 3-4 overall pick...I understand you are trying to guage his value that way, but there are just so many other factors that come into play

For example, Columbus really needed a future centre...so they may value Johansen more, Isles have centres in Bailey and Tavares and might value a future power forward winger in Nino, considering they already have De Haan, Hamonic, etc...it just really depends on the team

On the flip side, if I was Bryan Murray, would I trade Karlsson for number 5 next year? **** no. He is already a proven asset that has shown flashes of great play at the NHL level...I just think there is probably no way to guage players value like Eberle, Karlsson, etc. just because they mean so much more to their current teams

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Old
10-30-2010, 06:52 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I agree...I have seen all the games so that's why I acknowledged his better play...I just don't classify playing well for half the games as being unreal

And to the poster about ranking him as high as a 3-4 overall pick...I understand you are trying to guage his value that way, but there are just so many other factors that come into play

For example, Columbus really needed a future centre...so they may value Johansen more, Isles have centres in Bailey and Tavares and might value a future power forward winger in Nino, considering they already have De Haan, Hamonic, etc...it just really depends on the team

On the flip side, if I was Bryan Murray, would I trade Karlsson for number 5 next year? **** no. He is already a proven asset that has shown flashes of great play at the NHL level...I just think there is probably no way to guage players value like Eberle, Karlsson, etc. just because they mean so much more to their current teams
And thats why all the threads about trading Eberle, Karlsson etc are ********.

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Old
10-30-2010, 07:32 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
EH??? My post says Ottawa fans don't want Karlsson traded. Is that not also what you are saying in your post? Maybe not.

Anyway, my post is about a Vancouver - Ottawa trade that doesn't include Karlsson. Vancouver wouldn't turn Karlsson away, but we really need to boost our AHL defense prospects that are 1 to 3 yrs away from the NHL rather than accumulate defensemen who can play in the NHL this season. Even Parent will be sent back to the Moose when we get Hamhuis, Ballard and Salo back.
You missed my point, Just saying comparing a guy that's never played in the NHL to Karlsson, doesn't work.. Value wise..

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Old
10-30-2010, 08:15 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
Apparently Sidney Crosby. Most overrated prospect on these boards.
Only by some fans. Fact is, the only good deals involving him would be ones that get us a top line winger. I wouldn't trade Karlsson for any prospect (note: Hall and Seguin aren't prospects to me), and other than around-20 guys like Stamkos, Doughty, Myers, guys who are already near/above Karlsson's top potential, or guys like Hall and Seguin, there is no prospect I'd trade Karlsson for simply because what he has shown us is incredible, enough so that at times its simply not worth it to trade him for a similar prospect and taking the risk. Run on sentence.
Really, the only deal that would work with Karlsson is like something I gave as a value in the Sens-Ducks thread:
Karlsson+Foligno+1st for Ryan, I believe that's what I put... We'd give him up at his value in a deal for a better player, but for a similar player we overvalue him just as every other team does.

As for the McD+Grachev deal, I'd be very inclined to look at that, but in the end I'd probably say no.

EDIT: After reading this thread maybe a few people do overrate him.

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Old
10-30-2010, 08:52 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
It would seem Ottawa fans... want another team's inexpensive but quality top six forward or forward prospect.
We have quite a few 2nd liner prospects putting up great numbers all over the world. We need a 1st liner very soon and I don't think our D-prospects could fetch a near certain 1st liner.

IMO, Ottawa should look at a #1 goalie this summer @ ~$6m... no more ****ing back-up goalies!!!
Then looks towards a 1st line calibre forward UFA within the next few years as available cap space opens... potentially Alfie's cap space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To Vancouver: Jared Cowen & Chris Kelly
To Ottawa: Jordan Schroeder & Kevin Bieksa
I wouldn't trade Cowen for Schroeder, no way. I don't value Schroeder that highly. Maybe Wiercioch (--> ~ "Tom Gilbert"), I'd rather just let all of D-prospects try to make the team and if they create a logjam of talented D necessitating a trade... great. They'll have more value by then. If not, then we still shouldn't be short any talented D-men in the future.

We don't need Bieksa or any D-men. 3 new pairings were created to start the year and things were bad for a handful of games, so a bunch of chicken little Sens fans came here begging for D-men. The defense is stabilizing now and we don't even have Kuba back yet (he's played 23 mins a night in 2 yrs as a Sen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Benefit to Vancouver: the Canucks gain a $1.75 mil salary advantage between Bieksa's & Kelly's salaries plus when healthy, the Canucks are deep in roster defensemen.
Ottawa doesn't have that much cap space. We're actually negative right now with all of the injuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Kelly used as a 4th line centre is more usefull to the Canucks than using Bieksa in a #6 defenseman role (though Bieksa can play top 4, on the Canucks he is behind Hamhuis, Ballard, Ehrhoff, Edler and Salo).
An NHL coach would find a way to get Kelly on a 3rd line. Ruutu or Neil 4th line? ... Maybe. Kelly = no way!

Bieksa might end up behind Gonchar, Phillips & Kuba. Should we pull Karlsson out of the Top-4 to acquire Bieksa? How long would he be able to stay above Karlsson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
Though Schroeder is one of vancouver's top prospects, the Canucks prospect depth is strong at the forward position (Hodgson, Schroeder, Shirokov, Rodin, Rai, Oreskovich) while relatively weak in depth of quality defense prospects. Switching one of their best forward prospects for one of Ottawa's better defense prospects helps balance Vancouver's prospect talent pool.
It's nowhere near an equal exchange though. IMO, Vancouver has done a lot better than Ottawa these past few years and they paid for it... in high draft picks (of which Van has traded a lot of in recent seasons). Ottawa has drafted a lot more and a lot higher for the past 3-4 years, thus a similarly ranked prospect in Vancouver would generally not rate as highly here. Many of the top prospects in the Vancouver system seem to have had injury problems, stagnated, declined or otherwise develop slower than their peers.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:12 AM
  #59
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To BOS:
Karlsson
LeClaire

To OTT:
Thomas
Colborne
BOS 1st 2011

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:24 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
To Vancouver: Jared Cowen & Chris Kelly
To Ottawa: Jordan Schroeder & Kevin Bieksa
No from an Ottawa POV. No disrespect to Schroeder, he's a fine prospect, but if we wanted him, we would have taken him instead of Cowen. Kelly's been a great third liner for us and adding Bieksa would only deepen our logjam on defense, especially when Kuba returns.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:44 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
Apparently Sidney Crosby. Most overrated prospect on these boards.
Yeah, no kidding.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:04 AM
  #62
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Tough call between Karlsson and Subban. If Subban can temper his enthusiasm a little, he will develop into a much better defensive player with more size and grit. Subban will be very good, but I don't think he will be special. He will never come close to touching Karlsson offensively.

Karlsson is inexperienced when it comes to the North American game but plays with more patience and maturity. The kid flies on skates and has a howitzer for a shot and it will only get better as he becomes stronger. It looks like he will become a special player, but he will also be the kind of player where you take the good (which in his case is extremely good) with the bad - never great in his own end. In an interview they asked Gonchar about helping his development and Gonchar just grinned and said that the kid has much more talent than he ever did, which says a lot.

Which player will be better I think depends on the type of team they play on. Subban will cost less and be able to play very well in all situations whereas Karlsson will likely cost more and his team will need other good D-men to play in important defensive situations where he is not as effective.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:11 AM
  #63
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Karlsson is not overrated. Maybe he appears to someone who doesn't watch him on a consistent basis.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:20 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
To BOS:
Karlsson
LeClaire

To OTT:
Thomas
Colborne
BOS 1st 2011
That would be hard to pass up.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
To BOS:
Karlsson
LeClaire

To OTT:
Thomas
Colborne
BOS 1st 2011
I wouldn't from Ottawa.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:14 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG1165 View Post
I wouldn't from Ottawa.
Me neither. Leclaire will be gone after this year if he doesn't play lights out the rest of the year, the BOS 1st will be pretty low I think, in a weak draft, so its Thomas (yes, he's playing very well, but I want nothing to do with that contract) and Colborne and a low 1st for Karlsson.

No thanks, Hank.

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Old
10-30-2010, 12:05 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Alfredsson11 View Post
Karlsson is not overrated. Maybe he appears to someone who doesn't watch him on a consistent basis.
Alongside Jordan Staal and Giroux he is the most overrated player on the board.

His potential in this thread has already been compared to Stamkos, Doughty, Hall, and Seguin. That alone is hilarious.

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10-30-2010, 12:12 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Alongside Jordan Staal and Giroux he is the most overrated player on the board.

His potential in this thread has already been compared to Stamkos, Doughty, Hall, and Seguin. That alone is hilarious.
I dont think that anyone said he is as good as any of those players they said he was a step below.

Staal overated yes... Giroux absolutely not.

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Old
10-30-2010, 12:16 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
I dont think that anyone said he is as good as any of those players they said he was a step below.

Staal overated yes... Giroux absolutely not.
Read Giroux threads. Hes overrated. Just like Karlsson.

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10-30-2010, 12:32 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Read Giroux threads. Hes overrated. Just like Karlsson.
What do you personally equate to overrated? Giroux is an awesome two way player that is scoring at a ppg clip at 22 years old while be incredible defensively. Its hard to overrate a player that is that good.

Karlsson is very raw the offense is clearly there but he is still very small and not responsible defensively. I dont believe his body has matured very much it also remains to be seen if he has the work ethic to make that happen. The assumption that he will improve his defense is no guarantee but if you watch him enough the offensive skill and talent is very very high. He is easily the most talented offensive defensman this orgnization has ever had but we really dont know if he will develop properly to reach the max potential.

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Old
10-30-2010, 01:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I agree...I have seen all the games so that's why I acknowledged his better play...I just don't classify playing well for half the games as being unreal

And to the poster about ranking him as high as a 3-4 overall pick...I understand you are trying to guage his value that way, but there are just so many other factors that come into play

For example, Columbus really needed a future centre...so they may value Johansen more, Isles have centres in Bailey and Tavares and might value a future power forward winger in Nino, considering they already have De Haan, Hamonic, etc...it just really depends on the team

On the flip side, if I was Bryan Murray, would I trade Karlsson for number 5 next year? **** no. He is already a proven asset that has shown flashes of great play at the NHL level...I just think there is probably no way to guage players value like Eberle, Karlsson, etc. just because they mean so much more to their current teams
I disagree with your suggestion that teams will draft to need so high in a draft. You always take the BPA... Always. Look at what Ottawa did. There were a ton of decent forwards available at 16, and they needed one. What they did was trade the pick for Rundblad. Look at how that turned out for them. Rundblad is tearing it up in the SEL. BPA all the way.

As you suggest though, I was trying to get Karlsson pegged to a draft position, by doing this, you can then do the same with another player, and see how comparable they are.

Now I do understand that players have an emotional component for the fans, but a GM needs to manage assets more than fans emotions.

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Old
10-30-2010, 03:35 PM
  #72
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Id give up Kristo and a first for him

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Old
10-30-2010, 03:55 PM
  #73
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Id give up Kristo and a first for him
You'd have to give a lot more then that lol.. Kristo is garbage in the NCAA now.. Too small..

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