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Old
05-13-2005, 07:44 AM
  #51
Leaf Lander
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kind of shows you the hockey news list is more respected and closer to what maybe the top 100 players would look like

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Old
05-13-2005, 08:14 AM
  #52
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Bobby Orr should be ahead of Gretzky

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Old
05-13-2005, 11:53 AM
  #53
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I've seen different published lists before but this is the lamest.As I mentioned on
another thread this list doesn't have syl apps,andy bathgate,or brian trottier
just to name a few and i didn't go over the whole list so I'm sure there's plenty
more that are absolutetly sure bets that are ommitted.Also the list ranks too
many modern players too highly.

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Old
05-13-2005, 12:01 PM
  #54
JimEIV
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Here is a list of the current top 100 scores in the NHL, I think its pretty interesting to compare ESPN's top 100 to this

rank player years points (current)
1 Wayne Gretzky (1979-1999) 2857
2 Mark Messier (1979-2004) 1887
3 Gordie Howe (1946-1980) 1850
4 Ron Francis (1981-2004) 1798
5 Marcel Dionne (1971-1989) 1771
6 Steve Yzerman (1983-2004) 1721
7 Mario Lemieux (1984-2004) 1701
8 Phil Esposito (1963-1981) 1590
9 Ray Bourque (1979-2001) 1579
10 Paul Coffey (1980-2001) 1531
11 Stan Mikita (1958-1980) 1467
12 Bryan Trottier (1975-1994) 1425
13 Adam Oates (1985-2004) 1420
14 Doug Gilmour (1983-2003) 1414
15 Dale Hawerchuk (1981-1997) 1409
16 Joe Sakic (1988-2004) 1402
17 Jari Kurri (1980-1998) 1398
18 Brett Hull (1985-2004) 1390
19 Luc Robitaille (1986-2004) 1370
20 Johnny Bucyk (1955-1978) 1369
21 Guy Lafleur (1971-1991) 1353
22 Denis Savard (1980-1997) 1338
23 Mike Gartner (1979-1998) 1335
24 Gilbert Perreault (1970-1987) 1326
25 Dave Andreychuk (1982-2004) 1320
26 Jaromir Jagr (1990-2004) 1309
27 Alex Delvecchio (1950-1974) 1281
28 Pierre Turgeon (1987-2004) 1274
28 Al MacInnis (1981-2004) 1274
30 Jean Ratelle (1960-1981) 1267
31 Peter Stastny (1980-1995) 1239
32 Phil Housley (1982-2003) 1232
33 Norm Ullman (1955-1975) 1229
34 Jean Beliveau (1950-1971) 1219
35 Larry Murphy (1980-2001) 1216
36 Bobby Clarke (1969-1984) 1210
37 Bernie Nicholls (1981-1999) 1209
38 Vincent Damphousse (1986-2004) 1205
39 Mark Recchi (1988-2004) 1201
40 Dino Ciccarelli (1980-1999) 1200
41 Bobby Hull (1957-1980) 1170
42 Michel Goulet (1979-1994) 1152
43 Brendan Shanahan (1987-2004) 1151
44 Bernie Federko (1976-1990) 1130
45 Mike Bossy (1977-1987) 1126
46 Darryl Sittler (1970-1985) 1121
47 Jeremy Roenick (1988-2004) 1120
48 Mike Modano (1988-2004) 1106
49 Frank Mahovlich (1956-1974) 1103
50 Glenn Anderson (1980-1996) 1099
51 Mats Sundin (1990-2004) 1089
52 Theoren Fleury (1988-2003) 1088
53 Dave Taylor (1977-1994) 1069
54 Joe Mullen (1979-1997) 1063
54 Pat Verbeek (1982-2002) 1063
56 Joe Nieuwendyk (1986-2004) 1062
57 Denis Potvin (1973-1988) 1052
58 Henri Richard (1955-1975) 1046
59 Bobby Smith (1978-1993) 1036
60 Brian Bellows (1982-1999) 1022
61 Rod Gilbert (1960-1978) 1021
62 Dale Hunter (1980-1999) 1020
63 Sergei Fedorov (1990-2004) 1019
64 Pat LaFontaine (1983-1998) 1013
65 Steve Larmer (1980-1995) 1012
66 Alexander Mogilny (1989-2004) 1007
67 Lanny McDonald (1973-1989) 1006
68 Brian Propp (1979-1994) 1004
69 Brian Leetch (1987-2004) 996
70 Rick Middleton (1974-1988) 988
71 Dave Keon (1960-1982) 986
72 Andy Bathgate (1952-1971) 973
73 Maurice "Rocket" Richard (1942-1960) 965
74 Kirk Muller (1984-2003) 959
75 Larry Robinson (1972-1992) 958
76 Rick Tocchet (1984-2002) 952
77 Teemu Selanne (1992-2004) 951
78 Steve Thomas (1984-2004) 933
79 Neal Broten (1980-1997) 923
80 Bobby Orr (1966-1979) 915
81 Chris Chelios (1983-2004) 914
82 Rod Brind'Amour (1988-2004) 911
83 Scott Stevens (1982-2004) 908
84 Ray Ferraro (1984-2002) 898
85 Brad Park (1968-1985) 896
86 Butch Goring (1969-1985) 888
87 Bill Barber (1972-1984) 883
88 Dennis Maruk (1975-1989) 878
89 Cliff Ronning (1985-2004) 869
90 Ivan Boldirev (1970-1985) 866
91 Yvan Cournoyer (1963-1979) 863
92 Dean Prentice (1952-1974) 860
93 Tomas Sandstrom (1984-1999) 857
94 Ted Lindsay (1944-1965) 851
95 Gary Suter (1985-2002) 845
96 Tom Lysiak (1973-1986) 843
97 John MacLean (1983-2002) 842
98 Peter Bondra (1990-2004) 839
99 John Tonelli (1978-1992) 836
100 Jacques Lemaire (1967-1979) 835

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Old
05-13-2005, 01:14 PM
  #55
Leaf Lander
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thewre is no goalies on the all time points list

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Old
05-13-2005, 01:46 PM
  #56
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There's no way I would take Roy before Beliveau or Harvey. Roy was great but Beliveau was the 1960s version of Gretzky, and Harvey the '50s version of Bobby Orr.

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Old
05-13-2005, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
Here is a list of the current top 100 scores in the NHL, I think its pretty interesting to compare ESPN's top 100 to this

rank player years points (current)
1 Wayne Gretzky (1979-1999) 2857
2 Mark Messier (1979-2004) 1887
3 Gordie Howe (1946-1980) 1850
4 Ron Francis (1981-2004) 1798
5 Marcel Dionne (1971-1989) 1771
6 Steve Yzerman (1983-2004) 1721
7 Mario Lemieux (1984-2004) 1701
8 Phil Esposito (1963-1981) 1590
9 Ray Bourque (1979-2001) 1579
10 Paul Coffey (1980-2001) 1531
11 Stan Mikita (1958-1980) 1467
12 Bryan Trottier (1975-1994) 1425
13 Adam Oates (1985-2004) 1420
14 Doug Gilmour (1983-2003) 1414
15 Dale Hawerchuk (1981-1997) 1409
16 Joe Sakic (1988-2004) 1402
17 Jari Kurri (1980-1998) 1398
18 Brett Hull (1985-2004) 1390
19 Luc Robitaille (1986-2004) 1370
20 Johnny Bucyk (1955-1978) 1369
21 Guy Lafleur (1971-1991) 1353
22 Denis Savard (1980-1997) 1338
23 Mike Gartner (1979-1998) 1335
24 Gilbert Perreault (1970-1987) 1326
25 Dave Andreychuk (1982-2004) 1320
26 Jaromir Jagr (1990-2004) 1309
27 Alex Delvecchio (1950-1974) 1281
28 Pierre Turgeon (1987-2004) 1274
28 Al MacInnis (1981-2004) 1274
30 Jean Ratelle (1960-1981) 1267
31 Peter Stastny (1980-1995) 1239
32 Phil Housley (1982-2003) 1232
33 Norm Ullman (1955-1975) 1229
34 Jean Beliveau (1950-1971) 1219
35 Larry Murphy (1980-2001) 1216
36 Bobby Clarke (1969-1984) 1210
37 Bernie Nicholls (1981-1999) 1209
38 Vincent Damphousse (1986-2004) 1205
39 Mark Recchi (1988-2004) 1201
40 Dino Ciccarelli (1980-1999) 1200
41 Bobby Hull (1957-1980) 1170
42 Michel Goulet (1979-1994) 1152
43 Brendan Shanahan (1987-2004) 1151
44 Bernie Federko (1976-1990) 1130
45 Mike Bossy (1977-1987) 1126
46 Darryl Sittler (1970-1985) 1121
47 Jeremy Roenick (1988-2004) 1120
48 Mike Modano (1988-2004) 1106
49 Frank Mahovlich (1956-1974) 1103
50 Glenn Anderson (1980-1996) 1099
51 Mats Sundin (1990-2004) 1089
52 Theoren Fleury (1988-2003) 1088
53 Dave Taylor (1977-1994) 1069
54 Joe Mullen (1979-1997) 1063
54 Pat Verbeek (1982-2002) 1063
56 Joe Nieuwendyk (1986-2004) 1062
57 Denis Potvin (1973-1988) 1052
58 Henri Richard (1955-1975) 1046
59 Bobby Smith (1978-1993) 1036
60 Brian Bellows (1982-1999) 1022
61 Rod Gilbert (1960-1978) 1021
62 Dale Hunter (1980-1999) 1020
63 Sergei Fedorov (1990-2004) 1019
64 Pat LaFontaine (1983-1998) 1013
65 Steve Larmer (1980-1995) 1012
66 Alexander Mogilny (1989-2004) 1007
67 Lanny McDonald (1973-1989) 1006
68 Brian Propp (1979-1994) 1004
69 Brian Leetch (1987-2004) 996
70 Rick Middleton (1974-1988) 988
71 Dave Keon (1960-1982) 986
72 Andy Bathgate (1952-1971) 973
73 Maurice "Rocket" Richard (1942-1960) 965
74 Kirk Muller (1984-2003) 959
75 Larry Robinson (1972-1992) 958
76 Rick Tocchet (1984-2002) 952
77 Teemu Selanne (1992-2004) 951
78 Steve Thomas (1984-2004) 933
79 Neal Broten (1980-1997) 923
80 Bobby Orr (1966-1979) 915
81 Chris Chelios (1983-2004) 914
82 Rod Brind'Amour (1988-2004) 911
83 Scott Stevens (1982-2004) 908
84 Ray Ferraro (1984-2002) 898
85 Brad Park (1968-1985) 896
86 Butch Goring (1969-1985) 888
87 Bill Barber (1972-1984) 883
88 Dennis Maruk (1975-1989) 878
89 Cliff Ronning (1985-2004) 869
90 Ivan Boldirev (1970-1985) 866
91 Yvan Cournoyer (1963-1979) 863
92 Dean Prentice (1952-1974) 860
93 Tomas Sandstrom (1984-1999) 857
94 Ted Lindsay (1944-1965) 851
95 Gary Suter (1985-2002) 845
96 Tom Lysiak (1973-1986) 843
97 John MacLean (1983-2002) 842
98 Peter Bondra (1990-2004) 839
99 John Tonelli (1978-1992) 836
100 Jacques Lemaire (1967-1979) 835
And just what exactly does the top 100 scorers have to do with the top 100
players?

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Old
05-13-2005, 02:12 PM
  #58
free0717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
There's no way I would take Roy before Beliveau or Harvey. Roy was great but Beliveau was the 1960s version of Gretzky, and Harvey the '50s version of Bobby Orr.
There has not been as good a player as Bobby Orr before or after his career. Bobby didnt have longevity however Bobby Orr at his best was the Best Hockey Player ever. That includes Wayne Gretzky

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Old
05-13-2005, 02:28 PM
  #59
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
And just what exactly does the top 100 scorers have to do with the top 100
players?

To use it as a cross reference against ESPN 100 list..........A resource so to speak

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Old
05-13-2005, 02:33 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
There has not been as good a player as Bobby Orr before or after his career. Bobby didnt have longevity however Bobby Orr at his best was the Best Hockey Player ever. That includes Wayne Gretzky
No arguement from me on that.....no one I ever saw could control the game like he did

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Old
05-13-2005, 02:53 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
To use it as a cross reference against ESPN 100 list..........A resource so to speak
But why ? Top 100 scorers doesn't have anything to do with top 100 players.

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Old
05-13-2005, 03:16 PM
  #62
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
But why ? Top 100 scorers doesn't have anything to do with top 100 players.
doesn't have anything to do ???? Nothing at all? Marcel Dionne didn't make the list 1700+ career points and he's not top 100??????

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Old
05-13-2005, 03:55 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
doesn't have anything to do ???? Nothing at all? Marcel Dionne didn't make the list 1700+ career points and he's not top 100??????
Well, Phil Housley is # 32 scorer of all time and #4 for defensemen.He isn't one of the top 500 players of all time.Would you like some more examples.And what
about the other way-where would Shore and Morenz be ranked if you went by career points.

By the way isn't Dionne on the list at # 32.

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Old
05-13-2005, 05:38 PM
  #64
JimEIV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pei fan
By the way isn't Dionne on the list at # 32.
Oooppps

But my point is when you are making a list of the best players of course you have to factor in points. Yes I agree its doesn't tell the whole story, but it does tell a lot of the Story. Maybe not for Defensemen (I'd take Langway over most on the scoring list) and obviously not goalies, but if you are going to put Forsberg 14 spots a head of Yzerman as ESPN does I am going to go run to the career points, cups and trophies to to support my arguement against that.

That is really my only point of put up the scoring list.

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Old
05-13-2005, 05:59 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
Oooppps

But my point is when you are making a list of the best players of course you have to factor in points. Yes I agree its doesn't tell the whole story, but it does tell a lot of the Story. Maybe not for Defensemen (I'd take Langway over most on the scoring list) and obviously not goalies, but if you are going to put Forsberg 14 spots a head of Yzerman as ESPN does I am going to go run to the career points, cups and trophies to to support my arguement against that.

That is really my only point of put up the scoring list.
Very true but like you said it doesn't tell the entire story. To just look at Orr and Trottier's points isn't giving them their just due as players. Thats why any "Who's the best" list can't be done statisticly and should always start IMO.

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Old
05-15-2005, 06:44 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV
doesn't have anything to do ???? Nothing at all? Marcel Dionne didn't make the list 1700+ career points and he's not top 100??????



I seen dione play when he was in his 30's and he was adominating player on a very weak la team. They were pretty much one line team and a goalie

Back then though you had a chance to win if you could score and we all know that dione taylor and simmer could score in bunches while vachon kept the puck out of the net


They also had other players that would have good years like syl aps butch goring jimmy fox mike murphy but ny teh tiem they developed asolid second like they needed goaltending and were one of the teams with the highest goals against in the league

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