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How much $ will it cost to re-sign the Group II line?

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Old
10-30-2010, 06:15 PM
  #26
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Just a reason why the salary cap in general sucks... You can draft good players but you simply can't keep them all.

And it doesn't matter that the cap ever goes up because the player's salaries just go up by that exact percentage.


This system is the reason that you have to take chances on guys and become unbelievably lucky at getting a good player for a long term at a good salary. It can blow up in your face, but that is the goal.


The optimal system is a system that reduces the actual cap hit for home grown players. They should still get paid market value, just a reduced effect against the cap.

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Old
10-30-2010, 07:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
A lot wrong with that statement.

First, next year's salary cap will be based on this year's Hockey Related Revenue (which would only include the current rights fee from Versus, plus the revenue-sharing agreement with NBC). When a new television rights deal is reached next year, it will affect the 2012-13 salary cap (unless some upfront money from the new rights holder is included in 2010-11 Hockey Related Revenue).

Second, when the new television rights deal does kick into the salary cap calculation, that revenue would not be "pumped directly into the salary-cap number," which is how he came up with his number -- $100 million divided by 30 clubs. The players' share of Hockey Related Revenue is 57%. Therefore, if the new television rights deal brings in an additional $100 million relative to the current deal, that's an additional $57 million into the pot. And that would be assuming the players' share and the salary cap calculation don't change under the current CBA.

To be safe, say a modestly improved TV deal could add a million or two to the cap.
Quick everyone on Earth go buy a 1 dollar NHL bobble head. The 6 billion plus in sales will make the cap skyrocket!!!!!!

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Old
10-30-2010, 07:59 PM
  #28
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If Callahan keeps this up to ANY degree, he'll need a lot more than a $3/mil per yr offer to keep him around here.

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10-31-2010, 01:49 AM
  #29
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imho itll take 4 mil per for Dubi and Cally, and 2 mil per for AA.

and honestly im ok paying those guys that kinda money.

Lock em all up long term, kids are getting better and better every year. If the Rangers could get a top line that could score, youd probably be looking at one of the most lethal 2nd lines in the NHL.

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10-31-2010, 01:52 AM
  #30
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IMHO there's no chance we re-sign Frolov even if he winds up having a good season.... We need the cap space for these new contracts.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 10-31-2010 at 02:00 AM.
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Old
10-31-2010, 01:54 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
IMHO there's no chance we re-sign Frolov even if he winds up having a good season.... We need to cap space for these new contracts.
agreed. plus, i think hes really sucked so far this season. all he does is play with the puck on the boards. A guy we had a few years ago was great at that...his name was Marcel Hossa, and we ran his ass outta town.

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Old
10-31-2010, 01:59 AM
  #32
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Frolov has been horrible so far. I had hope, but he's been such a disappointment. He doesn't even have the posture of a pro.

This is the kind of stuff that his coaches in LA talked about a year ago. Doesn't seem like much has changed.

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10-31-2010, 02:01 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Frolov has been horrible so far. I had hope, but he's been such a disappointment. He doesn't even have the posture of a pro.

This is the kind of stuff that his coaches in LA talked about a year ago. Doesn't seem like much has changed.
well, again he plays the boards REALLY well...but hes nowhere near good enough to do it by himself...hes a good support player for a guy like Gabby.

id be real interested to see him, Prospal and Gabby on a line.

Remember how well Marcel Hossa worked for Jagr? him getting to the loose pucks and buying Jagr time and space? I think thats the same thing with Frolov, buying other people time with his board work. His passing isnt awful either.

With that said, hes not a player i particularly care one way or another if we keep him next season (unless its for even less than he makes now).

I still think the biggest thing is getting Drury the Eff off this team and freeing up that cash. THEN you can get some real help in the door.

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10-31-2010, 02:11 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
well, again he plays the boards REALLY well...but hes nowhere near good enough to do it by himself...hes a good support player for a guy like Gabby.

id be real interested to see him, Prospal and Gabby on a line.

Remember how well Marcel Hossa worked for Jagr? him getting to the loose pucks and buying Jagr time and space? I think thats the same thing with Frolov, buying other people time with his board work. His passing isnt awful either.
Frolov does a lot of stuff really well. But he has no consistency and he plays like he doesn't care half the time. He's a lot better than Marcel Hossa, but he doesn't play smart. I do think he's a good fit for Gaborik, and so is Prospal. Prospal's enthusiasm could help make up for Frolov's lack of it. I imagined that would be the line, or with Christensen platooning with Vinny, for the majority of the season.

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With that said, hes not a player i particularly care one way or another if we keep him next season (unless its for even less than he makes now).
If he plays like this for more than a third of the season, then I hope they cut him loose. Or even deal him at the deadline for a pick.

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I still think the biggest thing is getting Drury the Eff off this team and freeing up that cash. THEN you can get some real help in the door.
And I still think you should re-sign Drury to an affordable salary when his contract is up. He won't be offered big deals, and he'd probably take a bit of a discount to stay. If things go right over the course of the next couple of years, the team will have improved and he'd be used only as a role player in a role he'd fill like a champ. He'd face a lot less pressure, too, although I don't think that's the problem with him.

Again, you can't keep ALL of your good young players. Everyone wants a raise eventually. Not everyone can get one. A cheap rock solid veteran is a nice thing to have. I think they should keep Avery, too. He'd probably take a discount, as well.

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10-31-2010, 02:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post

And I still think you should re-sign Drury to an affordable salary when his contract is up. He won't be offered big deals, and he'd probably take a bit of a discount to stay. If things go right over the course of the next couple of years, the team will have improved and he'd be used only as a role player in a role he'd fill like a champ. He'd face a lot less pressure, too, although I don't think that's the problem with him.
What would affordable be in your book?

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable shelling out anymore than $3.5 mil for his services but I think it's highly unrealistic that he takes a 50% paycut on his next contract.

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Old
10-31-2010, 02:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What would affordable be in your book?

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable shelling out anymore than $3.5 mil for his services but I think it's highly unrealistic that he takes a 50% paycut on his next contract.
I wouldn't pay more than that either, but I don't think he will get many big offers. He's older, he has lost a step, and he's tainted by the stupidity of the NYR front office who keep placing him in positions that he has no chance to succeed in.

Who is going to offer him more than $4 million? Maybe a small market team that needs to hit the cap floor, I guess? Would he leave his home to go to a team like that? Maybe you can keep him for 3 or 3.5. I absolutely LOVE Drury, but I think it's completely ridiculous that anyone ever thought he was worth $7 million per season, and I can't imagine someone making a mistake that stupid again.

Avery, I'd go as high as 3, preferably 2.5 because he's a leader and a solid player, not to mention popular with the fans. Keeps the team, the league and the sport in the news, too, however stupid the reasons for it may be.

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10-31-2010, 02:33 AM
  #37
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for a penalty killer with some leadership?

2mil...maybe.

he doesnt bring much else to the table.

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10-31-2010, 02:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
for a penalty killer with some leadership?

2mil...maybe.

he doesnt bring much else to the table.
They'd have to try to use him correctly first for you to be sure of that. Hasn't been done yet. Not for more than a game or two here and there.

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10-31-2010, 02:36 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
for a penalty killer with some leadership?

2mil...maybe.

he doesnt bring much else to the table.
I'm not a big fan of Drury's... But, you have to consider that if he's still capable of posting 20-goal seasons, his going rate would be higher..

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10-31-2010, 02:47 AM
  #40
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Until a new collective bargaining agreement is in place, it will be impossible to gauge where these salaries will fall. The owners are already making noise about dropping the cap to a lower percentge of revenue or changing the agreement in other ways to reduce salaries. Tell me the nut and I'll give you a better idea where this one will land. It's a little early to figure where AA is going to land but Sather has a history of grinding players without arbitration rights harder than other teams. Callahan and Dubinskly will definitely be in line for contracts that will buy up some UFA years and Sather will pay accordingly. Right now, it looks to me like they wil both be in the $4MM neighborhood for at least 4 years.

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10-31-2010, 03:25 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I'm not a big fan of Drury's... But, you have to consider that if he's still capable of posting 20-goal seasons, his going rate would be higher..
Im not sure he is capable of scoring 20 goals.

Reason being is I think he's a power play kinda guy, and I just don't see him getting more minutes than AA, Gabby, Prospal, Dubi, Cally, or Frolov on the PP....he's a 3rd option as far as im concerned. Maybe another team could stick him on their PP, but for me, hes just not good enough to warrant the minutes. He's a defensive even strength player, and a penalty killer for this...and were not even a very talented team.

For a team like the Islanders he could get huge mins on the PP...not for us though.

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10-31-2010, 03:26 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
They'd have to try to use him correctly first for you to be sure of that. Hasn't been done yet. Not for more than a game or two here and there.
id agree with that, but i think its part of his own doing...when he was given the PP minutes he didnt produce...other guys have now passed him on the depth chart.

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10-31-2010, 04:02 AM
  #43
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I don't know how anyone could have watched the progression of Dubinsky and Anisimov and say their potential is 2nd-3rd line. 1st-2nd line is a hell of a lot closer to the reality.

1st line? No. Potentially good 2nd line? I'm a believer.

They've played really well so far this season but I want to see them do it for longer than 1 month.

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11-01-2010, 06:30 AM
  #44
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Its mindboggling some people are advocating the Rangers get into the big-ticket free agent market this summer when the CBA expires in 22 months. Time goes fast. The new CBA will bring a new system of rules. Management wants to lower the cap. Players want a cap on escrow such as the NBA players currently have or lower escrow. A deal could be made right there. The NHLPA continues to exercise their 5% bump, which increases the upper limit and increases the escrow. Then come the complaints by the rank and file about losing 10% of their salaries due to escrow.

Some teams want all one-way contracts to count against the cap. Management wanted a similar system in 2005. They wanted all contracts above a certain threshold to count against the cap. The NHLPA wanted only the players on the NHL team to count against the cap. That issue will be an agenda for the new CBA.

The Rangers re-signed Marc Staal and Dan Girardi to affordable deals. If the Rangers wanted to trade them tomorrow, those two contracts would not dissuade any interest. They should take a similar approach with Brandon Dubinsky, Ryan Callahan and Artem Anisimov. All three players look like they are going to have good solid offensive years. Look at a majority of the group II contracts. A player usually has a break out season offensively and then receives a big contract.

Brought up the example of Wojtek Wolski who received $3.8 million AAV after his best offensive season. David Krejci signed a 3-year deal worth $11.25 million after he recorded 73 points in 2008-09. Travis Zajac had 62 points in 08-09. Same draft years as Dubinsky and Callahan. Krejci was not arbitration eligible but the Bruins rewarded him. Rangers didn’t reward Dubinsky when was in a similar situation as Krejci. Callahan and Zajac were both arbitration eligible. Jersey gave Zajac 4 years/$15.55 million. Rangers gave Callahan 2 years/$4.6 million. In my opinion, both Rangers players need to have a breakout years offensively and they will get their $4 million. Rangers management wants to see that before they hand out big contracts to those two players. They did not do it when they had the opportunity in 2009 while other teams did it.

Rangers management should re-sign their group II’s to affordable contracts. Keep their kids and picks. Do not get involved in the big-ticket free agent items. The contracts of Michal Rozsival, Chris Drury and Sean Avery expire in 2012 before the CBA expires. Position yourself to come out of the new CBA with a solid team.

The Rangers aren’t contending for a Cup with or without Brad Richards in 2011-12 so why sign the player when the system is going to change? How can you commit to such a contract when you don’t know the rules? It makes zero sense. Stay the course until the CBA is settled.

The Rangers have nearly 30% of their payroll on the sidelines. Eight total periods of hockey has been played by that 30% of the payroll.

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11-01-2010, 08:04 AM
  #45
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Hard to say at this point in the season how much these guys will get. Can't say I see Callahan keeping up this pace all year, and the others are off to hot starts as well.

I see Dubinsky / Callahan getting in the $4M neighborhood for 4/5 years. Anisimov, I think will be closer to $2.5MM for 2 years. Something similar to what Dubinsky / Callahan got for their 2nd contracts.

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11-01-2010, 08:39 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Hard to say at this point in the season how much these guys will get. Can't say I see Callahan keeping up this pace all year, and the others are off to hot starts as well.

I see Dubinsky / Callahan getting in the $4M neighborhood for 4/5 years. Anisimov, I think will be closer to $2.5MM for 2 years. Something similar to what Dubinsky / Callahan got for their 2nd contracts.
I hope you're right with the lengths. Dubinsky I see arbitration and a one year, 4 million dollar deal before he goes straight to UFA.

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11-01-2010, 10:24 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I hope you're right with the lengths. Dubinsky I see arbitration and a one year, 4 million dollar deal before he goes straight to UFA.
I don't think we'll see the team try to force Dubinsky's hand again. If he finally breaks out and puts up 30 goals and 60 points, there's really no reason for the team not to give him a deal similar to what Booth got in Florida. However, he started off hot in the 08-09 season as well, so I don't think anything will be discussed until January at the earliest.

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11-01-2010, 11:17 AM
  #48
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these guys keep it up at this pace we might have to send drury down to reddenland (sarcasm)

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11-01-2010, 11:57 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I hope you're right with the lengths. Dubinsky I see arbitration and a one year, 4 million dollar deal before he goes straight to UFA.
I believe Dubinsky would be two years from UFA, Callahan 1.

Ranger Boy, am I right?

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11-01-2010, 12:43 PM
  #50
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RB- If the cap is lowered, you don't see a general rollback?

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