HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Czechoslovakia Elite league top 7 point Scoring 1965-66 - 1981-82

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-12-2009, 11:16 AM
  #26
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
I will follow this up with a post that has their top 3 WC and Olympic scorers through the same years
Well, since you, er, promised... are you working on it? It would be, as David Frost might put it, 'most interesting' (I maybe could manage the top scorer myself but not top 3).

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-12-2009, 09:20 PM
  #27
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,900
vCash: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Well, since you, er, promised... are you working on it? It would be, as David Frost might put it, 'most interesting' (I maybe could manage the top scorer myself but not top 3).
Since someone told me that Pelletier and Houda have a book detailing those stats, so instead of manually imputing them all going page by page, I was just trying to locate that book. If I do not find it by the end of the week, ill start compiling the list.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 05:18 PM
  #28
Martinson
Registered User
 
Martinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Martinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Ill just post a screenshot.
Please what's the source? Which site did you get the screenshot from? Thank you very much for the reply...

Martinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 05:42 PM
  #29
seventieslord
Registered User
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinson View Post
Please what's the source? Which site did you get the screenshot from? Thank you very much for the reply...
sihrhockey.org. Best stats database in the world. $30/year. Well worth it.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 06:25 PM
  #30
Martinson
Registered User
 
Martinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Martinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
sihrhockey.org. Best stats database in the world. $30/year. Well worth it.
Thank you!

Martinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2010, 12:22 PM
  #31
seventieslord
Registered User
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff m View Post
I'm not out to dispute anyone.I noticed on the hockey archives website they have Josef Vimmer as the # 3 goal scorer with 32 goals for the 1966/67 season.His name isn't even listed on the sihr site for that season.Even if he only had 2 assists he would of been tied for 7th place in scoring that season.Can anyone clarify this for me.
I just noticed this today as well, and came here for clarification. Anyone know?

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2010, 01:22 PM
  #32
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
In 1979 Martinec had 62 points (42+20); he should be #2 after Marian Stastny
http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 11:01 AM
  #33
jeff m
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
As good a site as sihr is they are still lacking many stats especially pre 1990.

I got these top 10 scorers out of book 100 let Ceskeho Hokeje.

Top 10 goal scorers 1966/67
Vaclav Nedomansky-40 goals
Jan Klapac-37 goals
Josef Vimmer-33 goals
Jiri Dolana-28 goals
Jan Havel-28 goals
Stanislav Pryl-26 goals
Jaraoslav Holik-25 goals
Petr Bavor-23 goals
Miroslav Vlach-23 goals
Jiri Holik-21 goals

jeff m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 12:35 PM
  #34
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,957
vCash: 500
I would like to hear the explanation about often posted *fact* on HFboards that Peter Stastny was arguably the best player in CSSR and Europe.

B/c I always say he was one of the better but he was not considered as a best in CSSR.

Marian Stastny was arguably best player from this brotherhood trio and Anton was most talented.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 12:38 PM
  #35
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,808
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
I would like to hear the explanation about often posted *fact* on HFboards that Peter Stastny was arguably the best player in CSSR and Europe.

B/c I always say he was one of the better but he was not considered as a best in CSSR.

Marian Stastny was arguably best player from this brotherhood trio and Anton was most talented.
Peter Stastny won the Golden Hockey Stick award for best player in Czechoslovakia in 1980: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Hockey_Stick

He defected to the NHL the very next year (1980-81).

And I've heard arguments that Marian was better in Czechoslovakia (Peter himself says so), but I think it's largely because he played for much longer over there. I can't, however, see how Anton could possibly be the most talented, when he was a much poorer skater than his brothers: http://quebecnordiques.blogspot.com/...n-stastny.html

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 12:44 PM
  #36
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 3,957
vCash: 500
In that time was hockey God of CSSR Milan Nový and there were some others players, not many, who where considered better than Stastny.

Your argument with Golden Stick I dont get. Last year won Hart Trophy some H. Sedin. Is he now the best in NHL? After 30 years we will be discuss about him as best player of todays NHL or will we rather discuss Ovechkin and Crosby?

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:02 PM
  #37
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
In that time was hockey God of CSSR Milan Nový and there were some others players, not many, who where considered better than Stastny.
Rewriting history a bit there, eh? I don't think there's any period in time, when Novy - despite his high scoring in the Czechoslovak league - was generally considered the best Czechoslovak player... and certainly not a "hockey God".

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-27-2010, 03:28 PM
  #38
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,900
vCash: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
In that time was hockey God of CSSR Milan Nový and there were some others players, not many, who where considered better than Stastny.

Your argument with Golden Stick I dont get. Last year won Hart Trophy some H. Sedin. Is he now the best in NHL? After 30 years we will be discuss about him as best player of todays NHL or will we rather discuss Ovechkin and Crosby?
No, but arguably, Peter Stastny had just hit his peak when he won the Golden Stick right before going to the NHL, where he quickly adapted and was considered among the best players in the league in the best league in the world.

Among all players, only Gretzky outscored Stastny in the 80's

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-28-2010, 02:58 AM
  #39
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
DS, so are you going to fix the obvious omission from the 1978-79 season? There's no doubt about it at all. Martinec was the top goal scorer with 42 goals and # 2 point scorer in the league (between M. Stastny 74 and Novy 56) with 62 points.

Quote:
Meilleurs marqueurs

B A Pts
1 Marián Štastný Slovan 39 35 74
2 Vladimír Martinec Jihlava 42 20 62
3 Milan Nový Kladno 33 23 56
4 Peter Štastný Slovan 32 23 55
5 Vincent Lukác Košice 27 25 52
6 Anton Štastný Slovan 32 19 51
7 Ladislav Svozil Vítkovice 19 26 45
8 Eduard Novák Kladno 23 20 43
9 Bedrich Brunclík Košice 18 23 41
10 Miloš Holan Vítkovice 26 14 40
From http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html

The least you could do, is to put an asterisk/note in the original post - as with the case of Josef Vimmer in 1966-67. Or to add "according to sihr" to the thread title/OP.

For a long time, I couldn't for the life of me understand why Martinec got the GHS in 1979; he was AMONG the top scorers for CSSR in the 1979 WC but hardly his performance was so great that it would explain it. Then I finally bothered to check those Czechoslovak league stats on my own, and well, there it was...


Last edited by VMBM: 10-28-2010 at 05:00 AM.
VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 02:44 AM
  #40
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Okay, it's clear that I will get any sort of reaction/response only when pigs fly.

I just hope that in the future, when these sort of rare stats are being provided, it is made clear where they are from (equipped with possible disclaimers), and if and when something doesn't add up or there's an obvious error - like here - the OP is willing to take notice and possibly even take action and not just be like "there they are, that's it". After all, these are the sort of stats people will use to rank players they've usually not even seen.

Now I'm beginning to bore even myself. But behind all this *****ing is my hate for misinformation (that seems to get me into all kinds of frustrating/awkward situations all the time).

VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 05:42 AM
  #41
jeff m
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
I have 2 hockey yearbooks from 1978 and 1979 that give complete hockey stats for all the teams and players in the elite league for seasons 1977/78 and 1978/79.The books are titled Hokej 78 and 79 written by Karel Gut and Vaclav Pacina.

If anyone would like these stats I would be more than willing to share.

jeff m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 09:00 AM
  #42
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,900
vCash: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Okay, it's clear that I will get any sort of reaction/response only when pigs fly.

I just hope that in the future, when these sort of rare stats are being provided, it is made clear where they are from (equipped with possible disclaimers), and if and when something doesn't add up or there's an obvious error - like here - the OP is willing to take notice and possibly even take action and not just be like "there they are, that's it". After all, these are the sort of stats people will use to rank players they've usually not even seen.

Now I'm beginning to bore even myself. But behind all this *****ing is my hate for misinformation (that seems to get me into all kinds of frustrating/awkward situations all the time).
Calm down. Not everyone reads every single post quickly. Particularly since I barely visit anymore and usually just glance quickly while browsing.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 12:57 PM
  #43
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Calm down. Not everyone reads every single post quickly. Particularly since I barely visit anymore and usually just glance quickly while browsing.
I've noticed, but since you recently answered the post about Peter Stastny, I thought you were just being stubborn and ignoring this 'great injustice' completely.

I don't know if "according to sihr" means anything to any new posters - or if it's even good English - but okay, there it is now

P.S. SFRP's Hockey Archive (CSSR/Czech/world hockey) has Martinec playing for both Jihlava and Pardubice in the 1978-79 season (http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html). Maybe there's the root to the problem (SIHR hasn't added the points scored for both teams together???).


Last edited by VMBM: 10-30-2010 at 01:32 PM.
VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 01:40 PM
  #44
jeff m
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
1978/79 season Vladimir Martinec played 24 games for Tesla Pardubice and had 21 goals and 12 assists and played 21 games for Dukla Jihlava and had 21 goals and 8 assists.according to Hokej 79.

jeff m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 01:46 PM
  #45
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff m View Post
1978/79 season Vladimir Martinec played 24 games for Tesla Pardubice and had 21 goals and 12 assists and played 21 games for Dukla Jihlava and had 21 goals and 8 assists.according to Hokej 79.
21 + 21 = 42 g
12 + 8 = 20 a

42 + 20 = 62 p


VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2010, 11:41 PM
  #46
seventieslord
Registered User
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff m View Post
I have 2 hockey yearbooks from 1978 and 1979 that give complete hockey stats for all the teams and players in the elite league for seasons 1977/78 and 1978/79.The books are titled Hokej 78 and 79 written by Karel Gut and Vaclav Pacina.

If anyone would like these stats I would be more than willing to share.
Just these two seasons? Or more? I used to have this book but sold it off because I had no way to read, translate, or interpret it.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2010, 12:03 AM
  #47
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
In 1979 Martinec had 62 points (42+20); he should be #2 after Marian Stastny
http://hokej.snt.cz/wrld/cze1979.html
Thanks for this. It will help me further prove he's better than Tommy Phillips in my ATD series

Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2010, 04:13 AM
  #48
VMBM
Registered User
 
VMBM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Now that we have that thing about the 1978-79 season sorted out, there aren't big/strange disparities between the scoring and the Golden Hockey Stick - for me, anyway.

Well, the only one I can think of is Ivan Hlinka's absence in the GHS voting in 1975. He obviously had a big scoring year in the domestic league and yet was not even in the top 6 in the voting (according to http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html):

Quote:
1 Vladimír Martinec (Pardubice), 2 Jirí Holecek (Sparta Prague), 3 Jirí Holík (Jihlava), 4 Milan Nový (Kladno), 5 František Pospíšil (Kladno), 6 Oldrich Machac (Brno).
Was his international play (I think we've established that it counted) poor that season? Or was there some other faux pas?

The other thing is Vaclav Nedomansky's reasonably weak success in the voting; he was never even in the top 2 (1969-74, the source again being www.passionhockey.com), despite his consistent high scoring both in the Czechoslovak league and World Championships - not to mention his numerous all-star berths in the latter. Not that it's a shame to lose to Suchy, Pospisil, Martinec, Holecek, but anyway. I can understand that after the 1974 defection, he wasn't very popular among his countrymen, but looks like he was strangely underappreciated already during his years in Czechoslovakia.

BTW, I thought that Martinec's scoring success in 1978-79 had something to do with him playing for Jihlava that season, but having seen those Hokej 79 stats, it was not the case at all; he just seemed to hit another - and his last - peak then.


Last edited by VMBM: 10-31-2010 at 04:32 AM.
VMBM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2010, 04:26 AM
  #49
jeff m
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Just these two seasons? Or more? I used to have this book but sold it off because I had no way to read, translate, or interpret it.
These are the only 2 seasons I have with these yearbooks.I do have Sparta Praha stats for every season in the 70's and I have Kladno stats but they aren't just league stats.They are all there games including tournaments.Always willing to share.
I am looking for complete stats for the rest of the 70's if anyone has any.

jeff m is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.