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Old
10-31-2010, 09:30 PM
  #26
Jeffler
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The Marlies attendance situation quite frankly dumbfounds me. They play about 1km from the ACC, they feature high quality prospects that people want to see up, the tickets are cheap, the arena isn't as bad as its made out to be...yet they're dead last in attendance this year, and the numbers are STILL grossly exaggerated.

Other than the CBC game, there's been between 750-2000 people a game, in an arena that seats 8000. And that's terrible.

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10-31-2010, 09:31 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hutch View Post
In the case with the Calgary Flames, were the moves from Omaha and Quad Cities done after contracts had expired?

The reason I ask is because this is the second of a ten year contract between the Flames organization and the Heat. So unless Calgary has a history of deal breaking, then no, the Heat aren't going anywhere!
Finances ended the Flames run in Saint John, despite the Calder Cup title not 2 yrs before......

Competition from other hockey franchises ended the flirtation in Omaha as well as Finances as it did when the HEAT were in the Quad Cities.

see Calgary and Fraser Valley are in a 50-50 partnership so unless Fraser Valley , who operate the HEAT, suffer the same issues tht affected Saint John, Omaha & QC, you have a provision as QCSV did to opt out of the agreement before the ten years elapses, but based off Worcester and Rockford who have similar structured agreements, not to mention the influx of finances by the League in regards to the travel subsidy then it's a non-issue.

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10-31-2010, 10:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Finances ended the Flames run in Saint John, despite the Calder Cup title not 2 yrs before......

Competition from other hockey franchises ended the flirtation in Omaha as well as Finances as it did when the HEAT were in the Quad Cities.

see Calgary and Fraser Valley are in a 50-50 partnership so unless Fraser Valley , who operate the HEAT, suffer the same issues tht affected Saint John, Omaha & QC, you have a provision as QCSV did to opt out of the agreement before the ten years elapses, but based off Worcester and Rockford who have similar structured agreements, not to mention the influx of finances by the League in regards to the travel subsidy then it's a non-issue.
Do you have proof of this or is this just more professorism on your part? The various stories I remember coming out when Abottsford was just a possibility were stating that the team would have to subsidizes all travel cost....there were links in post on here that i dont know where to find. Not too mention another story on here recently about how upset the citizens of the town were that they were pouring money into this team etc. at least thats how I remember it.

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11-01-2010, 10:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jeffler View Post
The Marlies attendance situation quite frankly dumbfounds me. They play about 1km from the ACC, they feature high quality prospects that people want to see up, the tickets are cheap, the arena isn't as bad as its made out to be...yet they're dead last in attendance this year, and the numbers are STILL grossly exaggerated.

Other than the CBC game, there's been between 750-2000 people a game, in an arena that seats 8000. And that's terrible.
Support wise toronto is not a great hockey market.Look at the ohl the majors last year and this year are one of the best teams yet are one of the worst supported.I would think mlse is a bit shocked at the lack of support for the marlies lets just say there avg 1800 a game how many are those are give aways.A bit of topic but even the international bow there was was rumors there was 30,000 tickets given away for the last game.

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11-01-2010, 10:51 AM
  #30
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I am shocked that Toronto is not more behind their AHL team. You would think that such a hockey crazed city would love the chance to see the up and comers for their home team, at good prices as well. It does not make sense. Are people too good to see something other than the NHL there? There is some semblence of that here in Chicago as well sad to say.

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11-01-2010, 11:34 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I am shocked that Toronto is not more behind their AHL team. You would think that such a hockey crazed city would love the chance to see the up and comers for their home team, at good prices as well. It does not make sense. Are people too good to see something other than the NHL there? There is some semblence of that here in Chicago as well sad to say.
Its really not shocking support wise toronto is not great.Only one team and one team only get great support and thats the leafs.

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11-01-2010, 12:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I am shocked that Toronto is not more behind their AHL team. You would think that such a hockey crazed city would love the chance to see the up and comers for their home team, at good prices as well. It does not make sense. Are people too good to see something other than the NHL there? There is some semblence of that here in Chicago as well sad to say.

I would suspect that Toronto fans are having that elites feel. That if it's not the NHL then its not worth watching. I see that a lot with Whaler fans here in Hartford. Everyone from hardcore fans to the casual say on a daily bases say they want the NHL back in Hartford. Yet they seemingly refuse to support the AHL. They always seem to give me this elites like turn their noses up to the AHL type feel, cause it's not the NHL. Now I think some of this has to do with the Wolf Pack/Whale being the affiliate of the New York Rangers. Who where a big Whaler rival... But still for the sake of hockey in Hartford.. Get over it! Now we'll see when they change the name to The Whale at the end of this month if that we'll change the interest in the team and attendance at the XL Center...

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Old
11-01-2010, 03:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by kingOmatic View Post
I would suspect that Toronto fans are having that elites feel. That if it's not the NHL then its not worth watching. I see that a lot with Whaler fans here in Hartford. Everyone from hardcore fans to the casual say on a daily bases say they want the NHL back in Hartford. Yet they seemingly refuse to support the AHL. They always seem to give me this elites like turn their noses up to the AHL type feel, cause it's not the NHL. Now I think some of this has to do with the Wolf Pack/Whale being the affiliate of the New York Rangers. Who where a big Whaler rival... But still for the sake of hockey in Hartford.. Get over it! Now we'll see when they change the name to The Whale at the end of this month if that we'll change the interest in the team and attendance at the XL Center...
I have that here in Chicago as well. I tell friends here about the AHL, and they look at me and say kind of, "well, that sounds nice for a team that is not part of an important league." However, if you go to a game, you see the very high level of play and that they put on a very good show both before and during the games. One game for the Blackhawks costs the same as several for the Wolves, and with a much better seat at Wolves games needless to say.

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11-01-2010, 09:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Its really not shocking support wise toronto is not great.Only one team and one team only get great support and thats the leafs.
Especially while the Marlies play at Ricoh. It's out of the way and an old piece of crap building. Most fans would rather not have to go there to buy over-priced food and beverages when they can just sit at home and cheer on the Leafs instead of watching the Marlies lose.

I love the Marlies, but still only go to a few games a year.

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Old
11-01-2010, 09:57 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I find it strange that the league, with all its teams clustered in pockets, has this one lone team in Abbortsford, all the way out in BC. For a league that seems to watch its dollars, the travel budget for this one team must be huge in comparison to some of the others. I am surprised there is not a legit western conference with Vancouver, Seattle and a few other Northwestern cities mixed in. I guess it is not cost feasible.

I like the idea of teams within close proximity of one another. I have seen Milwaukee and Rockford fans come into Chicago with their road gear and root against the Wolves. I think it adds something to the game, and also increases attendance.
More teams in the northwest would be met by fierce opposition from the Western Hockey League. That being said, I'm sure the AHL could work in some of the western ECHL markets, especially if you put farm clubs close the parent clubs. San Jose's in Stockton, Anaheim's and LA's in Ontario, Bakersfield or Vegas and Vancouver's in Victoria.

However, while the attendance probably wouldn't be an issue, it would create more travel for the other teams. Don't think the league would be too keen on that.

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11-01-2010, 10:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWC View Post
More teams in the northwest would be met by fierce opposition from the Western Hockey League. That being said, I'm sure the AHL could work in some of the western ECHL markets, especially if you put farm clubs close the parent clubs. San Jose's in Stockton, Anaheim's and LA's in Ontario, Bakersfield or Vegas and Vancouver's in Victoria.

However, while the attendance probably wouldn't be an issue, it would create more travel for the other teams. Don't think the league would be too keen on that.
Anaheim's moved to Elmira from Bakersfield as Minnesota's now the affiliate for the Condors, Vegas is now SA/PHX, RWC, but typically all ECHL contracts are reviewed every yr.

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11-01-2010, 11:23 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I have that here in Chicago as well. I tell friends here about the AHL, and they look at me and say kind of, "well, that sounds nice for a team that is not part of an important league." However, if you go to a game, you see the very high level of play and that they put on a very good show both before and during the games. One game for the Blackhawks costs the same as several for the Wolves, and with a much better seat at Wolves games needless to say.
I haven't been to a Wolves game in over 10 years, but when I lived in Chicago, they definitely were more fan friendly and kid friendly than the Blackhawks were at the time (and were competitive)...I believe there were a few occasions before the Dinosaur kicked it that the Wolves outdrew the Hawks on the same night .

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11-01-2010, 11:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Anaheim's moved to Elmira from Bakersfield as Minnesota's now the affiliate for the Condors, Vegas is now SA/PHX, RWC, but typically all ECHL contracts are reviewed every yr.
Except the ones that aren't right? Where's the proof I ask for on the statement in the post above??

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11-01-2010, 11:28 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Anaheim's moved to Elmira from Bakersfield as Minnesota's now the affiliate for the Condors, Vegas is now SA/PHX, RWC, but typically all ECHL contracts are reviewed every yr.
I wasn't talking about ECHL affiliations, just the cities themselves and listing hypothetical AHL affliliations.

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11-01-2010, 11:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Razzmatazz View Post
I haven't been to a Wolves game in over 10 years, but when I lived in Chicago, they definitely were more fan friendly and kid friendly than the Blackhawks were at the time (and were competitive)...I believe there were a few occasions before the Dinosaur kicked it that the Wolves outdrew the Hawks on the same night .
Yup.....in fact ESPN did a piece on the 2 teams and the sunday they did the Wolves outdrew the hawks. In the piece George Saunders or Sanders interviews fans of the Wolves etc then at the end is shown outside the UC and says something like the hawks refused them access and declined to be interviewed for the piece. Funny thing was it wasn't about any kind of competition between the 2, just was about hockey in Chicago.

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11-02-2010, 12:18 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWC View Post
More teams in the northwest would be met by fierce opposition from the Western Hockey League. That being said, I'm sure the AHL could work in some of the western ECHL markets, especially if you put farm clubs close the parent clubs. San Jose's in Stockton, Anaheim's and LA's in Ontario, Bakersfield or Vegas and Vancouver's in Victoria.

However, while the attendance probably wouldn't be an issue, it would create more travel for the other teams. Don't think the league would be too keen on that.
Not necessarily. Moving three (or even four) teams to California en masse and sticking with the division-heavy schedule allows them to minimize travel distances. Moving clubs to Sacramento, Fresno, Long Beach and/or San Diego allows for a more national setup, easing the stress on Abbotsford while providing more rapid response times for personnel moves for Pacific Division teams. This allows the AHL to emulate the dual league setup of Triple-A baseball without stepping on the toes of the ECHL (by staying out of active markets) or the WHL (by moving teams to California instead of the Northwest).

The trick is convincing the independent owners of West Coast-affiliated teams to pack up and move out of Northeastern markets. The Sharks and Kings wouldn't have huge problems relocating their clubs, but they need at least one more club if you assume they'll play in a division with Abbotsford and Manitoba (the latter of which is probably a stretch).

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11-02-2010, 10:30 AM
  #42
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Who would have thought that in the beginning of November that Springfield would be ranked higher in attendance than Rochester?

Any idea of what is going on in Bingo? Is this a sign that the Bingo faithful want Ottawa out of town?

Can't say that I'm surprised that the new Albany Devils are near the bottom (down nearly a 1000 from last season).

I know it's early, but it's a bit surprising to see WB/S and Chicago drawing under 6000 per game.

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Old
11-02-2010, 11:13 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Not necessarily. Moving three (or even four) teams to California en masse and sticking with the division-heavy schedule allows them to minimize travel distances. Moving clubs to Sacramento, Fresno, Long Beach and/or San Diego allows for a more national setup, easing the stress on Abbotsford while providing more rapid response times for personnel moves for Pacific Division teams. This allows the AHL to emulate the dual league setup of Triple-A baseball without stepping on the toes of the ECHL (by staying out of active markets) or the WHL (by moving teams to California instead of the Northwest).

The trick is convincing the independent owners of West Coast-affiliated teams to pack up and move out of Northeastern markets. The Sharks and Kings wouldn't have huge problems relocating their clubs, but they need at least one more club if you assume they'll play in a division with Abbotsford and Manitoba (the latter of which is probably a stretch).

I think that having a true Western AHL division would add another element to the League. I see no reason why a few of the West Coast NHL teams could not have their affiliate nearby. Would support be there though? I also hate the idea of other Eastern cities losing their team. I know it is tough to lose your home team.

I wish that there was more media coverage of the league. The only fix I get outside of going to the games themselves is this board, and the AHL and Wolves' website. Anyone have recommendations how fans can get some more league coverage?

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11-02-2010, 11:28 AM
  #44
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Another chilling effect early in the season with any team is school sports. Between practices and weekend games, parents don't have time for Wolves games. I know several season ticket holders who have only been to a single game or two so far this season because their kid's schedules has them busy. Attendance should (and usually does) pick up after the circus road trip.

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11-02-2010, 02:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Not necessarily. Moving three (or even four) teams to California en masse and sticking with the division-heavy schedule allows them to minimize travel distances. Moving clubs to Sacramento, Fresno, Long Beach and/or San Diego allows for a more national setup, easing the stress on Abbotsford while providing more rapid response times for personnel moves for Pacific Division teams. This allows the AHL to emulate the dual league setup of Triple-A baseball without stepping on the toes of the ECHL (by staying out of active markets) or the WHL (by moving teams to California instead of the Northwest).

The trick is convincing the independent owners of West Coast-affiliated teams to pack up and move out of Northeastern markets. The Sharks and Kings wouldn't have huge problems relocating their clubs, but they need at least one more club if you assume they'll play in a division with Abbotsford and Manitoba (the latter of which is probably a stretch).
2 major problems w/ this:

Didn't Fresno collapse last year mid-season, and now Seiland Arena is off-limits w/ the Fresno Monsters; LB & SD isn't enough of an issue regards to arena/owner/operators and the Maloofs are having issues w/ ARCO and the NBA Kings?

the other problem is convincing SJ aka SVSE and AEG (LA/Mch/Ontario) TO bail out of existing contracts, which simply isn't an option in either case (both long-term deals under common ownership and w/ Manchester being the only market to enter the pro sports market by having AEG BE a part of tht market between building Verizon Wireless for its operated club to play in... if it wasn't for the Monarchs, would the Fisher Cats select Manchester to move to?

as for the Worcester market, tht's why the city was heavily involved in attracting San Jose after the Blues exit for Peoria, it just happened to have Manchester & Portland (w/ ANA, then) make it an easy choice to invest and the Sharks have gone all out since their arrival even community-wise to turn back now....

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11-02-2010, 02:22 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I think that having a true Western AHL division would add another element to the League. I see no reason why a few of the West Coast NHL teams could not have their affiliate nearby. Would support be there though? I also hate the idea of other Eastern cities losing their team. I know it is tough to lose your home team.

I wish that there was more media coverage of the league. The only fix I get outside of going to the games themselves is this board, and the AHL and Wolves' website. Anyone have recommendations how fans can get some more league coverage?
not unless you have a league wide message board or some have their own message boards (fan-owned/operated), but there is no league sponsored message boards, CW1, ALL YOU DO IS do a search feature, and there are several that'll fill tht void besides here, depending on if you want league-wide or team specific (fan of the league, but not a specific team)....

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:10 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
not unless you have a league wide message board or some have their own message boards (fan-owned/operated), but there is no league sponsored message boards, CW1, ALL YOU DO IS do a search feature, and there are several that'll fill tht void besides here, depending on if you want league-wide or team specific (fan of the league, but not a specific team)....
This is good enough for me. I like a place to chat with other AHL fans that are into it. Wolves are on season-long road trip--I think the circus is in town. Sometimes when a team hits the road like that it bonds them. They have nothing to do but concentrate on hockey (hopefully).

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11-02-2010, 05:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
I can't speak for chicago as i have no grasp on how fans support or don't support hockey there.Toronto i do its the mind set were a great hockey market but we will not support anything but nhl.The marlies have patheic support the ohl teams just awful attendance as well.
NO, great NHL market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffler View Post
The Marlies attendance situation quite frankly dumbfounds me. They play about 1km from the ACC, they feature high quality prospects that people want to see up, the tickets are cheap, the arena isn't as bad as its made out to be...yet they're dead last in attendance this year, and the numbers are STILL grossly exaggerated.

Other than the CBC game, there's been between 750-2000 people a game, in an arena that seats 8000. And that's terrible.
Same as above, NHL market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Support wise toronto is not a great hockey market.Look at the ohl the majors last year and this year are one of the best teams yet are one of the worst supported.I would think mlse is a bit shocked at the lack of support for the marlies lets just say there avg 1800 a game how many are those are give aways.A bit of topic but even the international bow there was was rumors there was 30,000 tickets given away for the last game.
Someone understands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWolves1 View Post
I am shocked that Toronto is not more behind their AHL team. You would think that such a hockey crazed city would love the chance to see the up and comers for their home team, at good prices as well. It does not make sense. Are people too good to see something other than the NHL there? There is some semblence of that here in Chicago as well sad to say.
This is the biggest misconception on ice today.




The Leaf crazed nation also extends into Hamilton, helping to explain part of the Bulldogs lack of attendance........ but don't worry, in 2 years the Laval Bulldogs will draw very well.

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11-02-2010, 11:06 PM
  #49
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So tired........tired of waiting........tired of waiting for hutch....nice to be able to come on here and make a blanket statement like that and then when someone challanges you, to just ignore it like it didn't happen.

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11-02-2010, 11:24 PM
  #50
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So tired........tired of waiting........tired of waiting for hutch....nice to be able to come on here and make a blanket statement like that and then when someone challenges you, to just ignore it like it didn't happen.

Kinks?? Really??? You couldn't come up with something better?

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